HDTV and Your Lost Right to Record

Leo V

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
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"FCC Paves the Way for Requiring Anti-Copy Technology in Digital TV
Hollywood Continues to Dismantle Fair Use Rights in Digital World

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) issued a ruling on Sep. 18 that allows Hollywood to require the manufacturers of digital VCRs, high-definition televisions, cable set-top boxes, and related equipment, to implement copy restriction technology into the devices."


Read More Here

I've just noticed this article. It spells doom on the future of HDTV for any self-respecting consumer.

To make a long story short, the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) wanted to force all consumer HDTV appliance companies to adopt their copy-control technology (translation: make it impossible for you to record/copy/retain anything the MPAA doesn't want you to). The consumer electronics businesses were outraged (didn't Betamax/1984 court decision mean anything?), so FCC had to settle the matter. They just did, in the MPAA's favor.

This deals a stunning blow to the usefulness of HDTV technology--for anyone who believes that they, as a paying customer, have rights that aren't arbitrarily dictated by a huge corporate entity.

The DVD disc is already fouled by CSS encryption, combined with the Digital Milleniun Copyright Act of 1998 to convict anyone who manually decrypts it (translation: copies their purchased DVD movie to their hard drive! Legal with CD's, but not when the industry encrypts the DVD's contents, specifically to destroy that right...) Now HDTV is on its way to join.

If consumers keep acting like the cattle they are, and buy up all the pacified tripe the industry vomits on them (having been fed sufficient advertising), we're well on our way towards an Orwellian state.

I have no more vested interests in this than you, or any other consumer. All I ask of you is, get informed on what's going on, tell your friends&family, and REMEMBER when a salesman (or commercial) chants at you how "swell" that $3500 HDTV set is.

If you agree, I'd greatly appreciate a response, to keep the thread visible. If you don't, I'd love to know why. Thanks.
--LeoV
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Interesting -- thanks for the post, Leo. I'll keep an eye out for news on this subject.

On the DVD encryption thing, isn't that being litigated right now? I thought the guys responsible were being sued and were defending their actions based on fair use. I could be wrong though.
 

Leo V

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
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AndrewR,
DVD fair use still has a chance, however it's the fair use that's on the defensive. The only court injunction so far dictated that, 1) DVD decryption is protected by the 1998 DMCA law, 2) therefore, anyone breaking the code (called CSS=content scrambling system) is a criminal, 3) anyone possessing/distrubuting a program that unlocks the code (DeCSS, written by a Norwegian 14-year-old now under arrest) is a criminal, and finally 4) anyone LINKING to a website that has DeCSS is a criminal! You've read correctly.

The decision is being appealed, but the EFF (which funds it) has pennies compared to the industry lawyers, and we know that money/influence counts even in court. The bottom line is, the courts will have to overturn the DMCA altogether (on constitutional grounds) if fair use is to survive.
 

KarlHungus

Senior member
Nov 16, 1999
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It really looks like these cases are going to have to go all the way to the Supreme Court - I just hope they remember Betamax and proper fair use when they rule.
 

Workin'

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2000
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Leo -

I've been telling everyone I know about this HDTV copy-"protection" bull$hit for the last few weeks, after I first read about it.

Well, I guess we can say "adios" to HDTV as a viable technolgy for consumers. Something that could have been awesome will be destroyed by the fear and greed embodied by the MPAA. This is smelling more and more like the Divx fiasco (Circuit City's failed DVD-ripoff, not the MPEG4 encoder). There's no way on earth I would spend the kind of money that HDTV is going to require if it will be crippled in any way.

Whatever happened to the Home Recording Act? - what about "fair use" of copyright material? These ideas and laws are decades old, now the greedy bastards are trying to rewrite the law. The DMCA of 1998 is a sham and a shining example of shoddy lawmaking. The huge loophole there is that "fair use" copying of copyrighted material is allowed unless the material is encrypted. So, if I want to make it illegal for you to copy something, all I have to do is encrypt it, and voila', it is now a felony to make a copy, even as a backup or for your own personal use. The best part is that it is illegal to try and defeat the encryption, or to even talk about defeating the encryption.

This ought to have everyone enraged - the blatant reversal of earlier court decisions and the massive erosion of your personal rights and freedoms.

It just makes me want to scream!!!!

Edit: a few posts jumped in while I was writing this rant. Everyone (in the US) should write to their government representatives to let them know how they feel about the DMCA. The MPAA has to be laughing their collective asses off at the crap the consumer will put up with to get their fix of the TV drug!
 

MasterMind

Member
Sep 21, 2000
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The MPAA and special intrests groups are making it tough but there will always be a way. DVD-R will never be allowed into the market enough to bring prices down for consumers. And DVD-RAM drives are being made so they cant be played back in DVD players. Add a copy protection lock to digital VCR's and the home user's "fair use" is severly limited.

But digital copy protection isnt going to go away because digital programming can be copied digitally without loss. Any digital media could be re-distributed as studio quality and the entertainment industry would lose a ton of money.

Once a copy protection standard is in place the DVD-RAM market will ramp up and media wont cost $40 a disk but you wont be able to record digital programming. Kinda sucks to have a digital recorder that can only record a analog signal. You can always record to a regular VCR but you would lose the DVD quality. There is likely to be a hack to disable the copy protection feature of digital VCR's so all is not lost. And DVD-RAM disks can be played back in DVD players if the disk is closed. A script should be able to do that easily through a computer DVD-RAM burner and maybe even a CD re-writer.

Technology advances and product quality is better but fair use rights are going out the window.
 

Sohcan

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,127
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I think this gets a big...

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It's a shame to see great technology like DVDs and HDTV set back by the MPAA :|:|:|:|

Did I mention that I'm furious?
 

pg22

Platinum Member
Feb 9, 2000
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Wow..this looks really promising:

1) HDTV cost like 3x - 10x more than a normal TV.
2) NOw you won;t be able to use your VCR's to record from them.



LOL....Now *that's* an easy sell.... ;)
 

arthurb1

Golden Member
Oct 23, 1999
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Setback yes, hopefully there will be a work around sooner or later (DiVX4 codec anyone:)) The MPAA sucks almost as bad as the RIAA....yak yak...blah blah...whine whine...my million-billions-trillions of dollars are not enough, I want MORE...all the while some people have to live paycheck to paycheck...well (insert Sohcan's art here) YOU! That is my opinion.
 

loogie

Banned
Oct 18, 1999
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Whats divx got to do with anything here? HDTV was fscked when the government gypped the taxpayers by giving the networks free airspace. Bastards. That coulda gone on auction and made a ton of money.
 

arthurb1

Golden Member
Oct 23, 1999
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DiVX 4 is a codec floating around the 'net that can fit a DVD's work of MPEG2 (DVD's native format) on to one CD with minimal loss of quality...also known as MPEG 4. That is is relevance.

Well that rant has been pent up for a while...I have actually quit listening to Metallica as much (kinda getting sick of the same old crap anyway) and have moved on to Dave Matthews, who welcomes bootlegged recordings of his shows, now that is fan support! (bootleged recording is how he scored his contract)
 

Leo V

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
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Here is what regular consumers CAN do about this (constructively anyway ;)):

* Write/email your senator/representative. Let them know you're outraged by what's happening to your consumer rights, thanks to industrial lobbying. Obviously be courteous, or your message will never make it.

* Write/email to your favourite consumer electronics companies (for TV sets, radios, VCR's, DVD players, digital tape devices, car electronics, etc). Tell them in no ambiguous terms how much your rights mean to you. These companies are being bullied into adopting fascist technology; let them know you'll support them as long as they resist it. Inform of your refusal to buy any user-hostile products.

* Write/email to your network broadcasting service(s). Tell them that you'll abstain from subscribing to anything you cannot properly use (ie record). Remind them that their customers do mind having their rights taken away.

* Write/email to MPAA.org, RIAA.org, SDMI.org and others. Be polite, but remind them that their (corporate members') customers are their only source of income, and insist that they hear your grievance. Then tell them that you as a customer (amongst many others) will refuse the indignity of buying pacified products you cannot properly use.

* BOYCOTT any device with anti-consumer technology. This definitely includes all new CD/digital players with SDMI compliance; MS Windows Millenium which has SDMI compliance built-in (though not advertised much); HDTV sets; certain new music CD's have an early version of SDMI which makes them unusable in CD-ROM drives and *some* regular CD players. Watch out for new such broken products entering the market.

* MOST IMPORTANTLY tell as many people as possible about the dwindling consumer rights. The biggest strength we consumers have is knowledge. Right now, dismally few people know what's going on.

Is there any way I can make these guidelines more public?
 

Leo V

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
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BTW I'm just starting on doing all this. I plan to recycle/modify emails to different companies, makes the task much easier.
 

Sohcan

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
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It makes me angry that the MPAA is holding back HDTV implementation...I saw an HDTV demo recently at United Audio on a $25,000 plasma screen, and it was amazing...it's hard to describe how incredibly sharp the picture is without seeing it firsthand. Granted we won't be using plasma screens, but it will still look incredible.

I definitely plan to write some letters to my senators and representatives.

Leo V: Do you have any other links to fair use laws and info about CSS, SDMI, etc?
 

Soccerman

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,378
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Politics are bogged down by beaurocrats.. sometimes I just wanna... ____

anywho, yeah this kind of sucks. I personally don't care about copying DVD's etc, however not being able to record of the TV bites the big one. how am I supposed to watch shows that I am not home for?

the TV is too controlled for my comfort. I barely watch it. this is why I'm on the computer alot more! The Internet is something no one government can command! we need to see more things like HDTV on the net (boy would that be a bandwidth hog! 10+ megs a second!
 

Scorpion

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
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Hey Leo, can you provide a link to an actual news article about this? I want to send a link to a friend. Thanks.
 

Leo V

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
3,123
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Sohcan,
Here are some links: the organizations pushing these technologies are www.mpaa.org, www.dvd-cca.org, www.sdmi.org, www.riaa.org. The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF at www.eff.org) is the primary force opposing these entities; they're non-profit and supported through contributions. www.2600.com is the Hacker Quarterly magazine which was sued by the MPAA over distributing/linking to the DeCSS code for decrypting DVD's. www.slashdot.org is a fairly good news source for developments in these arenas.

If someone else has more (in particular, legal) links, please post them here!
 

Blackhawk2

Senior member
May 1, 2000
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Well the MPAA can kiss a dirty floor cause I don't plan on upgrading anytime soon, VHS and granular tv work very well thankyou.

 

Sohcan

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,127
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Leo, do you know how extensive the MPAA plans to use encryption? Will this just prevent people from recording movies, or will this apply to all television programs?
 

Leo V

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
3,123
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Sohcan,
To the best of my knowledge, the "copy control" technology MPAA wants to use would automatically encrypt everything on the air (it wouldn't be cost-effective to use different methods of transfer, would it?) They insist they'll use it "sparingly", only blocking the most important (!) broadcasting from duplication. "Just open the cookie jar, we'll only take a couple cookies! Trust us!" :|

This is why I'm voting for Nader this election. Corporations have become way too powerful, influential, and 99% unchecked.
 

GL

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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By the time I can afford a HDTV, computer monitors will be 30" LCD panels. I will purchase a 30" LCD panel, purchase a HDTV tuner card for my computer (they're already being developed), and happily record. What's that? The drivers might cripple the HDTV tuner's ability to record? I will reverse engineer the drivers and release *working* ones on usenet:) Failing that, I will develop an extremely fast screencap program that will capture all the images fed to the screen and write them to a compressed AVI file. Failing that, I will take up electronics and build my own HDTV tuner. Failing that, I won't buy into proprietary nonsense like HDTV...besides the quality of my TV set is the least I b*tch about...maybe the MPAA should start focussing on their stupid "product" errr content that they feed to my set. For every Seinfeld I have to put up with 10 different re-runs of Full House...now that's crap that needs improvement, not the quality of my reception which is pretty good.

-GL