HDMI Cable: The Truth

[StarsFan4Life]

Is there a difference in a $5 HDMI 1.3b cable from EForcity.com and a $50 HDMI 1.3b cable from Monster in terms of quality delivered over the cable from a FIOS HD receiver to a 1080P 52" HDTV?

I am running a couple of these $5 HDMI cables and wonder if I am missing out on quality of picture and sound.

 

[nickbits]

No difference.

 

[magnumty]

I just had a hdmi cable go bad, the color was all washed out, so the cheaper ones are failure prone, but when they work, they work. Went to walmart to find a replacement, and cheapest one was about 30 bucks, what a ripoff, logged on to monoprice and found one that is probably better quality for a third the price. The monster cables are nice, but 30 bucks is crazy, I dont care if they make a profit but come on!!

 

[erwos]

The HDMI cables from Monoprice are cheap enough that I buy extras. That solves the problem pretty nicely.

 

[s44]

Monoprice. If you want fancier construction, get the Belden stuff from Blue Jeans. Much better than any Monster.

 

[KLin]

Definitely a difference. One of those cables makes your wallet light muuuuuuch quicker.

 

[Tiamat]

No real diff. unless you take the HDMI cable beyond 20 feet. But even then, I'd take BJC over the monster anyday.

 

[hclarkjr]

look here

 

[puffywulf]

There's no difference at all. Retail packaging and brand name are a couple of reasons why Monster cable is so expensive, though the material may be slightly better than generic brands. As for me, I purchased a 1.3b Gold plated w/ Ferrite Bean HDMI cable 10ft from PI Manufacturing Corp at $4.50, and it has been working like a charm on my PS3. I just purchased Street Fighter IV, so the quality really stands out.

 

[mshan]

I just bought a 2 meter Wireworld Ultra-Violet HDMI cable (paid $65 on eBay), and to my eyes, it is a definite, though subtle step up from the basic Monoprice ones, connecting either my Apple TV or PS3 to my Samsung LN46A550.

I see lower noise, a sense of slightly higher resolution, and interestingly at least for the PS3, a much greater sense of speed while playing games such as Gran Turismo 5.

Before I got the Ultra-Violet, I had tried a Belden Pure AV HDMI (all copper one), and felt it was just filtering noise (and detail) and not actually passing the signal more accurately and coherently.

Differences are subtle and may vary with quality of source and monitor used. My guess is that basic difference you could expect to see with better built (higher quality materials, tigher tolerances, better connectors) would be lower video noise and a more highly refined and resolved picture (picture seems more transparent, with more depth, and possibly colors that just seem more right). That being said, the Monoprice cables may not look slightly coarse to you until you compare it to a true premium cable.

I'd view it like how reasonable audiophiles view compentently designed and manufactured cables - they are a final finishing touch, a burnishing, once you have base components you are happy with already in place.

Buy a basic 28G tinned copper HDMI from Monoprice, along with one of the premium flat HDMI they now offer and see what you think (Generic Flat HDMI Link; Wireworld Flat HDMI Link). See what you like and don't dislike, and if you still feel your cable box has more to offer, start researching for quality "videophile" type hdmi cables and see if reviews correlate with what you feel is deficient in your current setup.

http://www.thecableco.com/ allows you to borrow cables and test them in your own system; they do however charge shipping and non-refundable deposits, which are applied against future purchases (probably full retail).

Good Luck!

 

[manimal]

Jeff Boccacio from DLP labs recently did a whitepaper on hdmi spec. Really there are only two kinds of hdmi cable, low speed which operates at 74 mhz or high speed which operates above 300. Now the observations mshan makes are easier to see the better the panel and source you have. I ended up getting monster cable 1000s as a gift from a vendor and on my projector I did see a bit of a difference.


http://www.cepro.com/article/h...am_audio_over_1_cable/

CE pro has more info on hdmi if you search around.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: manimal
Jeff Boccacio from DLP labs recently did a whitepaper on hdmi spec. Really there are only two kinds of hdmi cable, low speed which operates at 74 mhz or high speed which operates above 300. Now the observations mshan makes are easier to see the better the panel and source you have. I ended up getting monster cable 1000s as a gift from a vendor and on my projector I did see a bit of a difference.


http://www.cepro.com/article/h...am_audio_over_1_cable/

CE pro has more info on hdmi if you search around.

Your link is about the new HDMI 1.4 spec, and you can't buy that yet.

 

[newnameman]

Originally posted by: mshan
I just bought a 2 meter Wireworld Ultra-Violet HDMI cable (paid $65 on eBay), and to my eyes, it is a definite, though subtle step up from the basic Monoprice ones, connecting either my Apple TV or PS3 to my Samsung LN46A550.

I see lower noise, a sense of slightly higher resolution, and interestingly at least for the PS3, a much greater sense of speed while playing games such as Gran Turismo 5.

Before I got the Ultra-Violet, I had tried a Belden Pure AV HDMI (all copper one), and felt it was just filtering noise (and detail) and not actually passing the signal more accurately and coherently.

Differences are subtle and may vary with quality of source and monitor used. My guess is that basic difference you could expect to see with better built (higher quality materials, tigher tolerances, better connectors) would be lower video noise and a more highly refined and resolved picture (picture seems more transparent, with more depth, and possibly colors that just seem more right). That being said, the Monoprice cables may not look slightly coarse to you until you compare it to a true premium cable.

I'd view it like how reasonable audiophiles view compentently designed and manufactured cables - they are a final finishing touch, a burnishing, once you have base components you are happy with already in place.

Buy a basic 28G tinned copper HDMI from Monoprice, along with one of the premium flat HDMI they now offer and see what you think (Generic Flat HDMI Link; Wireworld Flat HDMI Link). See what you like and don't dislike, and if you still feel your cable box has more to offer, start researching for quality "videophile" type hdmi cables and see if reviews correlate with what you feel is deficient in your current setup.

http://www.thecableco.com/ allows you to borrow cables and test them in your own system; they do however charge shipping and non-refundable deposits, which are applied against future purchases (probably full retail).

Good Luck!

I really hope this is a joke post...

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: manimal
Jeff Boccacio from DLP labs recently did a whitepaper on hdmi spec. Really there are only two kinds of hdmi cable, low speed which operates at 74 mhz or high speed which operates above 300. Now the observations mshan makes are easier to see the better the panel and source you have. I ended up getting monster cable 1000s as a gift from a vendor and on my projector I did see a bit of a difference.


http://www.cepro.com/article/h...am_audio_over_1_cable/

CE pro has more info on hdmi if you search around.

Your link is about the new HDMI 1.4 spec, and you can't buy that yet.

Sorry I linked the wrong page, the correct ones are


http://www.cepro.com/whitepape...tallers_guide_to_hdmi/

http://www.cepro.com/article/w...mi_speed_is_confusing/

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: newnameman

Originally posted by: mshan
I just bought a 2 meter Wireworld Ultra-Violet HDMI cable (paid $65 on eBay), and to my eyes, it is a definite, though subtle step up from the basic Monoprice ones, connecting either my Apple TV or PS3 to my Samsung LN46A550.

I see lower noise, a sense of slightly higher resolution, and interestingly at least for the PS3, a much greater sense of speed while playing games such as Gran Turismo 5.

Before I got the Ultra-Violet, I had tried a Belden Pure AV HDMI (all copper one), and felt it was just filtering noise (and detail) and not actually passing the signal more accurately and coherently.

I really hope this is a joke post...

I hope it is also.
There is NO difference in HDMI cables and picture quality. I'm an engineer who was around the HDMI development into the product that it is today. You will either see the correct 100% original picture or you will see macroblocks like these http://neuron2.net/misc/macroblocks.png. There is no difference in color, clarity or anything else. There is no error correction on HDMI. That is why when the tv receives bad data through a bad cable it only displays what it got for the frame, corrupted blocks. If the cable was so poor to drop frames of data, then you would know it because that is all you would see. It wouldn't be see one frame bad then the next good. That isn't how TMDS works.

 

[mshan]

Ah, yes, "perfect sound forever"

 

[Exterous]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I hope it is also.
There is NO difference in HDMI cables and picture quality. I'm an engineer who was around the HDMI development into the product that it is today. You will either see the correct 100% original picture or you will see macroblocks like these http://neuron2.net/misc/macroblocks.png. There is no difference in color, clarity or anything else. There is no error correction on HDMI. That is why when the tv receives bad data through a bad cable it only displays what it got for the frame, corrupted blocks. If the cable was so poor to drop frames of data, then you would know it because that is all you would see. It wouldn't be see one frame bad then the next good. That isn't how TMDS works.

I would not say there is NO difference in HDMI cables - although I base this off of this Audioholics chart. The entire article is a pretty interesting read. Moster cables also have some nice benifits like the lifetime warranty, generally snugger fitting ends and I find some of their cables to be much eaiser to bend than other, cheaper cables.

That being said I would never pay anywhere near retail price for them as decent quality Monoprice or Blue Jeans HDMI cables should be more than sufficient

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Exterous

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I hope it is also.
There is NO difference in HDMI cables and picture quality. I'm an engineer who was around the HDMI development into the product that it is today. You will either see the correct 100% original picture or you will see macroblocks like these http://neuron2.net/misc/macroblocks.png. There is no difference in color, clarity or anything else. There is no error correction on HDMI. That is why when the tv receives bad data through a bad cable it only displays what it got for the frame, corrupted blocks. If the cable was so poor to drop frames of data, then you would know it because that is all you would see. It wouldn't be see one frame bad then the next good. That isn't how TMDS works.

I would not say there is NO difference in HDMI cables - although I base this off of this Audioholics chart. The entire article is a pretty interesting read. Moster cables also have some nice benifits like the lifetime warranty, generally snugger fitting ends and I find some of their cables to be much eaiser to bend than other, cheaper cables.

That being said I would never pay anywhere near retail price for them as decent quality Monoprice or Blue Jeans HDMI cables should be more than sufficient

I was trying to find that earlier today. The second page with the subjective results is quite applicable.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Exterous

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I hope it is also.
There is NO difference in HDMI cables and picture quality. I'm an engineer who was around the HDMI development into the product that it is today. You will either see the correct 100% original picture or you will see macroblocks like these http://neuron2.net/misc/macroblocks.png. There is no difference in color, clarity or anything else. There is no error correction on HDMI. That is why when the tv receives bad data through a bad cable it only displays what it got for the frame, corrupted blocks. If the cable was so poor to drop frames of data, then you would know it because that is all you would see. It wouldn't be see one frame bad then the next good. That isn't how TMDS works.

I would not say there is NO difference in HDMI cables - although I base this off of this Audioholics chart. The entire article is a pretty interesting read. Moster cables also have some nice benifits like the lifetime warranty, generally snugger fitting ends and I find some of their cables to be much eaiser to bend than other, cheaper cables.

That being said I would never pay anywhere near retail price for them as decent quality Monoprice or Blue Jeans HDMI cables should be more than sufficient

What I got from that article, was that there was no difference in the cables, unless they connected two long ones together. Then, they finally made them fail. Big deal.
But at normal lengths, the signal was perfect.
As it should be....as Modelworks posted, either the signal gets through, or you have errors on the screen. There is no "one cable looks sharper than the other". The signal can't degrade that way.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Exterous

I would not say there is NO difference in HDMI cables - although I base this off of this Audioholics chart. The entire article is a pretty interesting read. Moster cables also have some nice benifits like the lifetime warranty, generally snugger fitting ends and I find some of their cables to be much eaiser to bend than other, cheaper cables.

That being said I would never pay anywhere near retail price for them as decent quality Monoprice or Blue Jeans HDMI cables should be more than sufficient

I said there was no difference in picture quality not in construction quality. Us engineers did not want the current connector for HDMI. We wanted a modified version of the DVI connector, with thumb screws . The reason was that HDMI cables that are properly shielded can get kind of heavy. This results in damage to the jacks on the equipment from the cables weight pulling ont he jack. We were over ruled by marketing though, they wanted it to be just like USB, consumers were familiar with USB, USB plugs were easy for consumers to understand, thumb screws would just confuse the consumer, it worked for USB why can't they have a jack just like it, and so on.

We also wanted a separate wire pair to carry audio only so people could easily send audio to their receivers. Blame the MPAA for that not happening. They wanted the video and audio all sent on the same pairs so they could encrypt it easier. We laughed at the MPAA at the time because we didn't realize that movie soundtracks were a big piracy target.

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

I said there was no difference in picture quality not in construction quality. Us engineers did not want the current connector for HDMI. We wanted a modified version of the DVI connector, with thumb screws . The reason was that HDMI cables that are properly shielded can get kind of heavy. This results in damage to the jacks on the equipment from the cables weight pulling ont he jack. We were over ruled by marketing though, they wanted it to be just like USB, consumers were familiar with USB, USB plugs were easy for consumers to understand, thumb screws would just confuse the consumer, it worked for USB why can't they have a jack just like it, and so on.

We also wanted a separate wire pair to carry audio only so people could easily send audio to their receivers. Blame the MPAA for that not happening. They wanted the video and audio all sent on the same pairs so they could encrypt it easier. We laughed at the MPAA at the time because we didn't realize that movie soundtracks were a big piracy target.

:laugh: I feel your pain. Marketing wins over engineering/production where I work at too.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: mshan
I just bought a 2 meter Wireworld Ultra-Violet HDMI cable (paid $65 on eBay), and to my eyes, it is a definite, though subtle step up from the basic Monoprice ones, connecting either my Apple TV or PS3 to my Samsung LN46A550.

I see lower noise, a sense of slightly higher resolution, and interestingly at least for the PS3, a much greater sense of speed while playing games such as Gran Turismo 5...

If you're interested, I have a $450 power cable I can sell you for your PS3; you'll be amazed at the improvement in game speed...

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
We also wanted a separate wire pair to carry audio only so people could easily send audio to their receivers. Blame the MPAA for that not happening. They wanted the video and audio all sent on the same pairs so they could encrypt it easier. We laughed at the MPAA at the time because we didn't realize that movie soundtracks were a big piracy target.

Ugh, and that got us stuck with the current deal where you have receivers that just pass HDMI audio on to the TV, and receivers that will actually process the HDMI audio.

 

[illvm]

I would say there is no difference in signal quality between cables and to not let the price fool you. Retail stores like to jack up the prices almost 1000% on things like A/V and network cables. e.g. a friend of mine got me a $50 HDMI cable from Best Buy using his employee discount for $8. Which cable is better, the $8 or the $50? Also, Monster cables are, and have always been a complete waste of money when it comes to price/performance ratios. No need to buy into their (rather poor) marketing.

 

[mshan]

I would argue that my "premium" HDMI cable isn't enhancing the signal vs. basic Monoprice ones, it is just passing the signal with less degradation and distortion (thus my comment about how the Monoprice cable may look slightly coarse, but that it may not be something you realize till you compare it to one that is less price constrained in terms of construction than say basic Monoprice one).

It is hard to believe that HDMI interface, in real world applications, is perfect and completely distortion free, unless you have catatrophic all or nothing drop out.

If basic Monoprice cable ever so slightly blurs signal (jitter?), then a lower jitter cable (Wireworld Ultra-Violet) could pass a sharper, lower noise, higher resolution, seems like more right colors, signal simply because it is truer to original source.