"HDDs don't consume anywhere near all SATA bandwidth" = SATA 3.0 HDDs are pointless?

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,108
12,361
136
Yes, it's true that there aren't any normal HDDs that can even peak anywhere near what SATA 3.0 (6Gbps) is capable of, but I would like to see a review of today's SATA 3.0 HDDs benchmarked on a decent SATA 3.0 controller, then on a decent SATA 2.0 controller, then in SATA 1.0.

I think what people are missing when they make statements along the lines of the title of this thread is that HDDs have never challenged the top speed of the bus they were designed for.

Example. When UDMA33 was the current standard, there weren't any IDE disks that could make full use of the available bandwidth (Peak or sustained, though personally I feel that sustained bandwidth is the only figure that really counts for anything practically).

UDMA100 must be at least a decade old now, I have a computer with UDMA100 and the board must have be made around 1999, yet there's another computer sitting here, Core i7-920 with two SATA 2.0 capable disks, transferring a large file between them and it's going at... 100MB/sec. However, if you found a relatively decent-spec computer with two UDMA100 hard disks in, I estimate that one would be fortunate to have them managing a sustained transfer speed of say 10MB/sec.

In my experience it took until about 2006 before I started seeing sustained transfer speeds of 50MB/sec between two internal disks, yet even SATA 1.0 is only capable of around 150MB/sec.

Of course, a number of things affect the speed at which a disk can performed sustained transfer speeds. Most of them are to do with how much data is packed onto each platter and other physical attributes, however without the advances of the ATA specs, improved efficiencies in signalling between drive and controller, etc, a lot of what a drive could do would mean very little.
 
Last edited:
Apr 10, 2011
40
0
0
I assume SATA 6gb/s was created because of the existence of SSDs. It lends them a bit of credibility when when mobos have a special port specifically for SSDs.

I guess it's a bit of an issue that SSDs and HDDs use the same connections for communicating, when the devices typically operate on different orders of magnitude of speed. I assume the result of this is that 6GB/s HDDs are indeed no faster than 3GB/s HDDs, but cost slightly more to purchase because of the R&D for putting the 6GB/s hardware on them.
 

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
SATA 3.0 predates current SSD and encompasses more changes than simply theoretical burst throughput over SATA I or II.
 

icanhascpu2

Senior member
Jun 18, 2009
228
0
0
Whoever you are quoting is an idiot. Sata III was made for the obvious advancement of hard drives speeds in the consumer sector we now know as the SSD.

Lets try it the other way. Lets stay with SATA II. Then lets make hard drives that exceed SATA II bandwidth and THEN lets make SATA III? That makes about as much sense as slapping a 120GB 40MBps peak hard drive in a SATA III system and pretending SATA III is pointless because you're too cheap to get with the program. (Not you personally, speaking in general)

Future-proofing is never pointless.
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,437
1,659
136
Whoever you are quoting is an idiot. Sata III was made for the obvious advancement of hard drives speeds in the consumer sector we now know as the SSD.

Lets try it the other way. Lets stay with SATA II. Then lets make hard drives that exceed SATA II bandwidth and THEN lets make SATA III? That makes about as much sense as slapping a 120GB 40MBps peak hard drive in a SATA III system and pretending SATA III is pointless because you're too cheap to get with the program. (Not you personally, speaking in general)

Future-proofing is never pointless.

Actually its doubtful it was and he is right. Sata II was also out before SSD's, came out and before saturation of SATA I connectors happened. There are tons of other features that have been added, rules that have been worked out. When you really look at who is behind SATA, it had little to do with any of the SSD manufacturers. SATA III was a discussion before SATA II was ever launched and early into SATA I's life. Ratification on Sata II was just taking place and several features were being pushed back to SATA III.

It's great that there is a decently priced drive that can saturate the connectors. But trust me once 4th gen SSD's hit. SSD manufacturers are going to wish they were the driving force behind SATA development.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
If you're gonna geek out over this stuff, you could at least get the terms correct.

SATA 3.0 = wrong
SATA III = wrong

http://www.sata-io.org/developers/naming_guidelines.asp

Like a previous poster pointed out, it's not just about handling burst saturation from disk cache. There are other features in SATA Rev 3. See question #5:
http://www.sata-io.org/documents/SATA-Revision-3.0-FAQ-FINAL.pdf

While I'm all about semantics and "what say what you mean, mean what you say" that seems over the top. Why would they consider "SATA Revision 3.0" ok while "SATA 3.0" isn't? The dropping of the word revision doesn't change the meaning in any way and the 3.0 correctly implies that it's the 3rd revision of the SATA standard.
 

murphyc

Senior member
Apr 7, 2012
235
0
0
Could be confused with 3Gbps which is Rev 2.x. Either way you're dropping something, either Rev or Gbps, hence ambiguity.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Could be confused with 3Gbps which is Rev 2.x. Either way you're dropping something, either Rev or Gbps, hence ambiguity.

How can "SATA 3.0" be confused with the 2.x rev? I could see if you left off the .0 and included nothing to disambiguate between rev and speed, but just about everyone who sees X.0 knows it's a version number unless there's a metric attached to it.
 

murphyc

Senior member
Apr 7, 2012
235
0
0
Because there are subversions of 3. So are you really saying SATA Revision 3.0, to the exclusion of 3.1 and 3.2? Or do you mean SATA 3.x, which could be seen as SATA 3x which is confusing as well.

SATA rev 3
or
SATA 6Gbps
 

murphyc

Senior member
Apr 7, 2012
235
0
0
Technically they want it as "SATA Revision 3.x" but I'm willing to drop the 'ision' and '.x' as I don't think SATA rev 3 is at all ambiguous.

Nevertheless, the differences between SATA Rev 2 and Rev 3, aren't just about transfer rates. The signaling is different, and more efficient. So I refuse the premise of this thread's subject.
 

Coup27

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2010
2,140
3
81
I also find this annoying and personally always put the Gbps suffix on. Samsung sell their 830 as "SATA 6Gb/s" and also use SATAIII on their website!
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Technically they want it as "SATA Revision 3.x" but I'm willing to drop the 'ision' and '.x' as I don't think SATA rev 3 is at all ambiguous.

Nevertheless, the differences between SATA Rev 2 and Rev 3, aren't just about transfer rates. The signaling is different, and more efficient. So I refuse the premise of this thread's subject.

You're willing to do that for us? OMG thank you so much, we owe you!
 

icanhascpu2

Senior member
Jun 18, 2009
228
0
0
If you're gonna geek out over this stuff, you could at least get the terms correct.

SATA 3.0 = wrong
SATA III = wrong

http://www.sata-io.org/developers/naming_guidelines.asp

Like a previous poster pointed out, it's not just about handling burst saturation from disk cache. There are other features in SATA Rev 3. See question #5:
http://www.sata-io.org/documents/SATA-Revision-3.0-FAQ-FINAL.pdf

Well I say it's right. So there.

SATA IIIGS8800512 will be how I write the new revision.


It's great that there is a decently priced drive that can saturate the connectors. But trust me once 4th gen SSD's hit. SSD manufacturers are going to wish they were the driving force behind SATA development.


Yes, I agree with that. I would say the bandwidth needs to be tripped, but its not good for business to go too far ahead of the curve. It gives people reasons to upgrade, but at least with a SSD that quick, you wont have to worry about it being the bottleneck. On my system now for the first time ever my SATA port is the bottleneck.