With HD sound now out and about, what does one have to spend on speakers and subwoofers to take advantage of the new quality available, assuming other components are up to the task? I assume there is some lower limit, but I don't know what it is.
HD Audio - what is the price baseline?
- Thread starter Squidmaster
- Start date
10 million US Dollars.
Edit:
On a more serious note, one variable you are overlooking is the room. The room acts as its own equalization filter with variations of ± 20dB commonly. Even if your speaker is ± 3dB across the audible region, the room will overrule this with its own filter. (Not to mention the time domain problems).
For an answer you were most likely looking for, it doesn't take much money to get decent sound. The money comes into play when you need bass below 30hz and if you want "great" sound.
So, some questions right back at you:
1. what size is your room and what are your demands for bass? For example, I listen to a great amount of pipe organ music, so my demand for 30hz bass and deeper is extreme with a requirement of 16hz sustained at 95 dB with low distortion. This defines my needs for a subwoofer.
2. What limitations do you have for speakers in terms of wood finish? size of speaker?
3. The room and the speaker choice then narrows down the choice of amplification. You can see where this is going...
Edit:
On a more serious note, one variable you are overlooking is the room. The room acts as its own equalization filter with variations of ± 20dB commonly. Even if your speaker is ± 3dB across the audible region, the room will overrule this with its own filter. (Not to mention the time domain problems).
For an answer you were most likely looking for, it doesn't take much money to get decent sound. The money comes into play when you need bass below 30hz and if you want "great" sound.
So, some questions right back at you:
1. what size is your room and what are your demands for bass? For example, I listen to a great amount of pipe organ music, so my demand for 30hz bass and deeper is extreme with a requirement of 16hz sustained at 95 dB with low distortion. This defines my needs for a subwoofer.
2. What limitations do you have for speakers in terms of wood finish? size of speaker?
3. The room and the speaker choice then narrows down the choice of amplification. You can see where this is going...
My personal opinion...just for receiver/speakers....about $1400 for 5.1. 2.1 could be about 800.
I agree with Tiamat that the room can play a huge role in the way your speakers sound to you. I know and I have measured my room. It's effect is mainly felt at low frequencies though where I really don't see that much of a benefit of HD sound. HD sound should help high frequencies more than low so my price estimate is just the point at which I think its worth investing in HD sound. Anything lower and you could improve your sound more by buying better speakers with the higher end components it takes to get HD sound.
I agree with Tiamat that the room can play a huge role in the way your speakers sound to you. I know and I have measured my room. It's effect is mainly felt at low frequencies though where I really don't see that much of a benefit of HD sound. HD sound should help high frequencies more than low so my price estimate is just the point at which I think its worth investing in HD sound. Anything lower and you could improve your sound more by buying better speakers with the higher end components it takes to get HD sound.
Agreed. 800$ for a stereo pair of bookshelf speakers is where I would pin the minimum as well. This incorporates an expectation of wood veneer, driver quality, crossover network quality, reasonable cabinet construction. In my opinion, I feel that exponential increases in price up to this amount leads to corresponding increases in quality. Beyond this amount, you are looking at "only" a linear increase in quality for exponential increase in price.
The lack of a need for wood veneer could decrease the price to 400-600$ with, perhaps, some other compromises that may or may not be acceptable depending on your ears.
2000$ for a stereo pair of bookshelf speakers is what I would consider "high end" where much of the money went into the cabinet, crossover research/development, and veneer. This upgrade comes after spending for a good subwoofer imho.
It's also worth noting that DD-THD and DTS-HD MA, on their own, are not going to save a badly done sound track.
I'm hoping to do some 1:1 comparisons as I upgrade a few of my DVDs to Blu-Ray, so hopefully I'll have more to talk about on the subject later this year.
I'm hoping to do some 1:1 comparisons as I upgrade a few of my DVDs to Blu-Ray, so hopefully I'll have more to talk about on the subject later this year.
Rubycon
Madame President
- Aug 10, 2005
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Originally posted by: Muadib
Don't knock it, until you've tried it.
Well as a musician and recordist I'm sure I know what "HD" should sound like.
Problem is with most modern music the actual "music" fits in the quality realm of 128kbps MP3 playback fine. :disgust:In the studio there are high end 24/192k boards that approach the quality of the finest analog boards but again the produced product that everyone receives is going to be inferior. Yes I am biased.
Originally posted by: Rubycon
Originally posted by: Muadib
Don't knock it, until you've tried it.
Well as a musician and recordist I'm sure I know what "HD" should sound like.
In the studio there are high end 24/192k boards that approach the quality of the finest analog boards but again the produced product that everyone receives is going to be inferior. Yes I am biased.
You tell it like it is
Thankfully, there is plenty of non-"modern" music that can be purchased and listened to
This is exactly why I tell people to use classical CDs (or, when possible, SACDs) when they're doing speaker auditions. At least with some of the labels, there's some real emphasis on sound quality.Originally posted by: Rubycon
Well as a musician and recordist I'm sure I know what "HD" should sound like.
Hey, great answers. Thanks. $800 is out of my reasonable range at this time, so I'll be spending considerably less and settling for lower, but still better than I have, quality. I listen primarily to classical choral and jazz music, and at the moment, my collection is all CD based (or ripped onto my hard drive at 192).
What is your budget?
You should spend some time and check out Yoyo's stickied thread . He has compiled quite a bit of information that may help.
Yup, I've done that. I think I know what I'm going to do. I just wanted to get a baseline for the "next level" so to speak to see what I'm up against.
On the flip side, is there a quality of equipment that is too cheap to consider buying, assuming the purchase advice from the thread you mention is being used?
On the flip side, is there a quality of equipment that is too cheap to consider buying, assuming the purchase advice from the thread you mention is being used?
Originally posted by: Squidmaster
Yup, I've done that. I think I know what I'm going to do. I just wanted to get a baseline for the "next level" so to speak to see what I'm up against.
On the flip side, is there a quality of equipment that is too cheap to consider buying, assuming the purchase advice from the thread you mention is being used?
No, but it only gets better.
For example, if we were to simplify this specifically to speakers, the difference between 100$ computer speakers and 200$ stereo active monitors is astounding. Add in a 200$ subwoofer and the chasm expands even more. Upgrade the 200$ speakers to 400$, and you net even more improvements. Up to 800$ still more so. Then the improvements start to lessen from here on up, but they are still present.
Doesn't mean you have to spend 800$. It just means that if you do, you can expect a certain level of quality in craftsmanship and sound quality. If your budget is 200$, the solution is still vastly superior to typical computer speakers (klipsch promedia 2.0). Just like the 200$ stereo powered monitors plus 200$ subwoofer would be vastly superior to the 2.1 equivalent computer speakers like the klipsch promedia 2.1. Although, I do feel that the Klipsch promedia 2.1s are decent entry level speakers.
Of course this is from my experience using a computer as the source (M-Audio BX5a discontinued version).
Yes, understanding that price/performance curve is really important. I have a solid grasp of that for computer parts, but I am still very much a novice when it comes to sound equipment.
Right now I am using an old Onkyo TX-8211 stereo receiver with Bose 201 (not necessarily series IV) speakers connected to my cable box. My goal is to connect my computer to the receiver as well, and possibly even an old Nintendo Gamecube.
My logic is as follows:
The state of HD HTPCs right now looks to be fairly poor, with no way to record nearly all of the cable channels I receive, no way to export sound or video other than DVI + digital optical, and no way to import to a monitor save via DVI, which receivers don't seem to handle.
With that in mind, I figure to skip out on the "HD" element for several years (I'll still have the TV signal), reuse my Bose speakers that I've had for a long time (free is a good price), and grab a $150 Onkyo TX-SR304 receiver as well as a comparably priced sub from Dayton or a similarly recommended source. I am also debating picking up a Bluegears sound card to take advantage of the new hardware more than the onboard sound on my fairly new motherboard.
Down the road I'd like to explore the HD element, but until all the components can really get connected properly it feels like a partial waste. In 3 years, I can get another receiver for another $150 that has all the HDMI capabilities by that time, and look to upgrade my front (then middle and rear) speakers in the meantime.
Currently I have no middle or rear channels, but that will be the next element to focus on I figure. I would like to say I could take my Bose speakers and move them to the rear channel upon my next purchase, but I don't think this place has room for that. I would likely have to get something small and mountable. In the meantime, these speakers sound better than my computer or TV built-in speakers for certain, and cost me nothing. One step at a time, right?
Does this make sense? Any alternate plans?
My biggest current concerns are the sound card/no sound card debate and the discrepancy between the Onkyo data on the receiver I've listed and the information available at Amazon and other sites. I need it to have 2 digital optical in ports. The images say it has 2, but the Onkyo website says 1 digital/1 coax. Additionally, the Amazon site lists the black colored version of the receiver as about twice as large as the silver model, which makes no sense to me.
Thanks again for your time. This is helping a bunch.
Right now I am using an old Onkyo TX-8211 stereo receiver with Bose 201 (not necessarily series IV) speakers connected to my cable box. My goal is to connect my computer to the receiver as well, and possibly even an old Nintendo Gamecube.
My logic is as follows:
The state of HD HTPCs right now looks to be fairly poor, with no way to record nearly all of the cable channels I receive, no way to export sound or video other than DVI + digital optical, and no way to import to a monitor save via DVI, which receivers don't seem to handle.
With that in mind, I figure to skip out on the "HD" element for several years (I'll still have the TV signal), reuse my Bose speakers that I've had for a long time (free is a good price), and grab a $150 Onkyo TX-SR304 receiver as well as a comparably priced sub from Dayton or a similarly recommended source. I am also debating picking up a Bluegears sound card to take advantage of the new hardware more than the onboard sound on my fairly new motherboard.
Down the road I'd like to explore the HD element, but until all the components can really get connected properly it feels like a partial waste. In 3 years, I can get another receiver for another $150 that has all the HDMI capabilities by that time, and look to upgrade my front (then middle and rear) speakers in the meantime.
Currently I have no middle or rear channels, but that will be the next element to focus on I figure. I would like to say I could take my Bose speakers and move them to the rear channel upon my next purchase, but I don't think this place has room for that. I would likely have to get something small and mountable. In the meantime, these speakers sound better than my computer or TV built-in speakers for certain, and cost me nothing. One step at a time, right?
Does this make sense? Any alternate plans?
My biggest current concerns are the sound card/no sound card debate and the discrepancy between the Onkyo data on the receiver I've listed and the information available at Amazon and other sites. I need it to have 2 digital optical in ports. The images say it has 2, but the Onkyo website says 1 digital/1 coax. Additionally, the Amazon site lists the black colored version of the receiver as about twice as large as the silver model, which makes no sense to me.
Thanks again for your time. This is helping a bunch.
newnameman
Platinum Member
- Nov 20, 2002
- 2,219
- 0
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Unless you plan on using the analog outputs, there's no reason to spend so much of your budget on the sound card.
For that price pick up an Asus Xonar or Audigy XFI card.
You can find cheaper though. What about something like the Logitech Z-5500's? 5.1 with a lot of input choices, but not the best sound. It is highly rated in general (some people don't like the "bassiness" of Logitech systems), but is only $150 or less on sale and will suit your needs for a few years until you can buy the $1500+ systems.
You can find cheaper though. What about something like the Logitech Z-5500's? 5.1 with a lot of input choices, but not the best sound. It is highly rated in general (some people don't like the "bassiness" of Logitech systems), but is only $150 or less on sale and will suit your needs for a few years until you can buy the $1500+ systems.
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 100,624
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system sound is pcm, which a digital interconnect will carry through. dvds come in dd and dts bitstream, which digital interconnect already carry. HD-DVD and BRD would carry through the hdmi if you get the newest video cards with audio pass-through.
As to SACD and DVD-A, forget that on the computer.
kalrith
Diamond Member
- Aug 22, 2005
- 6,628
- 7
- 81
It's not just about a certain price point; you can make your money go farther by hunting around for good deals and buying some components used/refurb. I found a good deal on my R50 mains for $195 shipped for 2, and I found a $300 sub used on ebay for $110. You can get the Onkyo 304 for $119 refurbished.
Oyeve
Lifer
- Oct 18, 1999
- 22,071
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Originally posted by: Rubycon
Originally posted by: Muadib
Don't knock it, until you've tried it.
Well as a musician and recordist I'm sure I know what "HD" should sound like.
In the studio there are high end 24/192k boards that approach the quality of the finest analog boards but again the produced product that everyone receives is going to be inferior. Yes I am biased.
I still prefer vinyl records.
Really, I do.Huh, glad I mentioned the sound card. I've gotten a lot of random advice on sound cards at Tom's and various places, none of it particularly consistent. I've considered skipping it entirely but I have no frame of reference to know what the difference would be.
Are you suggesting that I simply get another card, or skip the card and improve something else instead? My sense is that spending $100 more on a receiver isn't necessarily the best move since the "real" HD receivers start at $2-300 more than baseline.
I'm hesitant to get a Logitech or similar set, because I do want to upgrade slowly but surely, and I can do that with my plan, even if it is a slow process.
Do you all recommend looking for used/refurbished products? I tend to shy away from that arena because I am in extremely poor health, and am not all that capable of tracking down and fixing problems. If I get something new at Amazon I know I have a solid warranty to work with.
Are you suggesting that I simply get another card, or skip the card and improve something else instead? My sense is that spending $100 more on a receiver isn't necessarily the best move since the "real" HD receivers start at $2-300 more than baseline.
I'm hesitant to get a Logitech or similar set, because I do want to upgrade slowly but surely, and I can do that with my plan, even if it is a slow process.
Do you all recommend looking for used/refurbished products? I tend to shy away from that arena because I am in extremely poor health, and am not all that capable of tracking down and fixing problems. If I get something new at Amazon I know I have a solid warranty to work with.
Muadib
Lifer
- May 30, 2000
- 18,124
- 912
- 126
Originally posted by: Oyeve
Originally posted by: Rubycon
Originally posted by: Muadib
Don't knock it, until you've tried it.
Well as a musician and recordist I'm sure I know what "HD" should sound like.
In the studio there are high end 24/192k boards that approach the quality of the finest analog boards but again the produced product that everyone receives is going to be inferior. Yes I am biased.
I still prefer vinyl records.
Have either of you listened to anything on SACD or DVD-A ?
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