HBO's Game of Thrones season 6 discussion thread- airing 4/24/16 (No book spoilers)

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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
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How it should have been:

60956600_10105210780780533_7692054567621492736_n.jpg
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,300
126
Also it would have been better for Drogon to burn both Jon and the Iron Throne at the same time. Jon survives because of his lineage causing Drogon gives him a curious look - snifs Jon again before flying off with Danarys.
cant understand why dragon melted the iron throne.
unless he's very intelligent and knows that throne was the source of conflict, sorrow and pain?

also, who is manning castle black?
who lowered the gates after Jon and the Free People rode past it to the Wastelands?
 

PJFrylar

Senior member
Apr 17, 2016
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Also it would have been better for Drogon to burn both Jon and the Iron Throne at the same time. Jon survives because of his lineage causing Drogon gives him a curious look - snifs Jon again before flying off with Danarys.

I don't think Jon has fire immunity like Dany.


You can hear him yell in pain as he grabs the lantern in this scene.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
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I don't think Jon has fire immunity like Dany.


You can hear him yell in pain as he grabs the lantern in this scene.
Correct. Fire immunity was a unique trait to Dany for whatever reason and really it was meant to be unique to the specific pyre burning of Drogo and the witch. Yet the TV show invoked it a couple more times. Dany's immunity was not something all (or ANY other as far as we know) Targaryen's possessed.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,214
659
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cant understand why dragon melted the iron throne.
unless he's very intelligent and knows that throne was the source of conflict, sorrow and pain?

also, who is manning castle black?
who lowered the gates after Jon and the Free People rode past it to the Wastelands?

The dragon melting down the throne also bothered me. I took it as another writer masturbation moment where the show runners wanted to insert some symbolism that the wheel was broken, or some such nonsense. I don't really care for symbolism that's forced like this. It only really works for me when it's more natural. As the dragon's have been treated as big dogs, it's hard for me to believe that he knew what the throne was. Dany hadn't even seen it before, so how the dragon knew to burn it down makes no sense without me doing some serious leaps of logic.
 
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
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Well there is a series that ended with a wet thud. Like most I think the plot points were not bad, they were just rushed with very little intrigue or explanation going into setting them up. Lots of long, unvoiced, CGI heavy shots that were beautiful to behold in this season that could have been replaced with a little Sansa/Cersi/Varys/Tyrion scheming and plotting that would have done wonders for the narrative pace. Alfred Hitchcock once said that suspense is when the audience knows there is a bomb in the other room but the character on the screen does not. It looked like no one knew what was going on in this last season, which is good for cheap thrills but doesn't hold up over time.

****

It may have been cliche or something but I sincerely expected the series to end with a scene showing Bran warging, in full control of his powers as three eyed raven, setting up the events and moving pieces on the board through the entire series to arrive at this final world state.

The biggest revelation (which D&D seemed to have completely dropped as a plot thread) would have been future/King Bran is in fact the Lord of Light , and the red priests/ priestesses were in fact his agents unwittingly doing his bidding to get things just right.

For a series so centered on the consequences of action and that kind of "Sword of Damocles" hanging over all of the characters "playing the game of thrones" it would have been a sort of fatalistic sucker punch in the end leaving the viewer questioning how much of what these people did was of their own volition vs how much of what they did was "destiny" or at least entrapment from powers beyond their control.

****

I appreciated the ending for Jon. I took his going to the "real north" as a knights watch liaison (at least that's what I figure) to be the happiest ending a guy that did not want to play the game but has been so deeply affected by it could possibly ask for. That scene where John rides north is John finally opting out of the game, hopefully for good.
 

OccamsToothbrush

Golden Member
Aug 21, 2005
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Wonder how the relatively small population shown moving into the north forest in the very last scene will get their meat. Most of it will probably come from killing animals in the wild like deer and such.

If the number of families increase a lot then I guess they'll depend mostly on raising cows and pigs. I bet a few cows & pigs were in the fur clad caravan but off screen somewhere in the back. Would've loved to see some little piglets alongside the group. Or they'll just take or acquire cows and pigs from anyone already living up there.


Why are you pulling on that particular loose thread? It's a world of zombie armies and dragons and you find that the wildings not having a well-explained agrarian food supply is what makes it unrealistic?

also, who is manning castle black?
who lowered the gates after Jon and the Free People rode past it to the Wastelands?

It can be assumed that one or two men of the Nights Watch survived the wall getting broken and returned to duty when the zombie army had passed. By oath they were prohibited from getting involved in the affairs of the Seven Kingdoms, so they would not have ventured south with the army that attacked Kings Landing. Not that it matters, the wall is broken and the threat is gone, there's no real reason for the Nights Watch or Castle Black to even exist anymore.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
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I don't think Jon has fire immunity like Dany.


You can hear him yell in pain as he grabs the lantern in this scene.
I always assumed the fire still hurt like hell, but Dany has acclimated herself to it (like when she goes into the scorching bath water in season 1). I figured out R+L=J a looooong time ago and I've been wondering the whole time if they'd do a twist-style reveal that Jon is also immune to heat/fire.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
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just thought of something.

the previous 3 eyed raven lived for hundreds of years.
could Bran also do the same thing??
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,068
649
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just thought of something.

the previous 3 eyed raven lived for hundreds of years.
could Bran also do the same thing??

I don't remember if they ever really explained this in the show. the only reason he lived so long was because he had essentially merged with the tree.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,009
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Wait! Are you guys saying the series has ended? Who won? My money is on the night walkers. The very idea that anyone could get close enough to knife the Night King is ridiculous on the face of it, amIrite? Guys?
 
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iCyborg

Golden Member
Aug 8, 2008
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At least we got some good memes out of it. Some more here: https://www.boredpanda.com/season-8-finale-game-of-thrones-got-memes/

I wouldn't have a problem with the ending if it were developed properly. As it is, it feels random, rushed and inconsistent:
- For 7 seasons Daenerys was portrayed as an idealistic ruler who got a number of smart people to believe in and follow her. Then she becomes arguably the biggest villain in the show in like 1-2 episodes. Writers should refer to Breaking Bad to see how protagonist becoming antagonist is done right.
- White Walkers always seemed like this huge looming menace that will make all conflicts look as petty bickering, everybody will join hands and the showdown will have profound consequences. There are no profound consequences, other than northerners/free folk and a few select others, no one in the other six kingdoms was directly impacted nor cared much about it. It's like making a movie about imminent alien invasion, couple countries band together and brush it off, and then we go to find out who wins trade war between US and China.
- If Bran could foresee his selection as king, couldn't he also foresee Dany's massacre? If he could, but he couldn't do anything about it, what's the benefit of a ruler who can see everything, but is just a passive observer who can't do sh*t about it.
- I'm not happy how they wrap up Arya and Jon, Arya kills NK, gets a toast from Dany, and that's pretty much it, she doesn't really do anything in the last 3 episodes. Jon spends years in Night's watch, gets out of it, defeats the Boltons, manages to convince Dany to help out with WWs, saves Westeros from a crazy tyrant he loves, he has the strongest claim to the throne, and his "reward" is to be sent back to NW. I expected he would take control of Drogon and handle the Dothraki/Unsullied.
And they still need NW so they can still exile "undesirables" - I guess the world didn't get any better in that respect either...

Anyway, the show deserved much better ending. The likelihood of GRRM finishing the 7th book is getting bleak. Maybe Benioff&Weiss will finish it, in an abridged 50 page version...
/rant
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
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At least we got some good memes out of it. Some more here: https://www.boredpanda.com/season-8-finale-game-of-thrones-got-memes/

I wouldn't have a problem with the ending if it were developed properly. As it is, it feels random, rushed and inconsistent:
- For 7 seasons Daenerys was portrayed as an idealistic ruler who got a number of smart people to believe in and follow her. Then she becomes arguably the biggest villain in the show in like 1-2 episodes. Writers should refer to Breaking Bad to see how protagonist becoming antagonist is done right.
b82928d729f43f461be1de52451c79348c3b15872f37d1f0915b06fccab0e9d7.jpg
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Did anybody post this yet??

IMO, this guy's proposed S8 is infitenly better than what two paid professionals managed to conjure up in 2 years. Jesusssss.
 
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dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,572
3,401
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Did anybody post this yet??

IMO, this guy's proposed S8 is infitenly better than what two paid professionals managed to conjure up in 2 years. Jesusssss.

- No illogical character 180s
- Far more tension up until the last episode (everyone and their dog knew who would die)
- Fewer dropped plot points
- We get benevolent queen Daenerys/Arwen and future king Jon/Eldarion

Obviously no chance of GRRM ending the books like this, but it's nice to dream.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
- No illogical character 180s
- Far more tension up until the last episode (everyone and their dog knew who would die)
- Fewer dropped plot points
- We get benevolent queen Daenerys/Arwen and future king Jon/Eldarion

Obviously no chance of GRRM ending the books like this, but it's nice to dream.

I just don't think benevolent Dany was ever at all going to be possible. Now I haven't read the books, but even in this series, it's been shown repeatedly that she has always been willing, eager even, to take things a little too far to prove a point. I don't think it was necessary for her to so rapidly go all Mad Queen and burn all of Kings Landing, but in the truncated high-pace season they not only have to show her acting as the Mad Queen, they have to make the transition to it all in the same episode for some unknown reason. But the plot pacing was definitely part of the problem - closing the book on the Night King was far too quick
I don't think she should have been quite portrayed as the Mad Queen with an entire city's destruction, as I think her character arc should have properly ended having been perhaps a bit too bloodthirsty and vengeful. She needn't be mad to be bad, perhaps just a touch of madness.
But all the check boxes that drove her to finally cross any kind of line she imagined were all ticked - she's down a dragon (well two at that point), she's recently lost very close people, she fears she may lose her hold on the claim to the throne, and Cersei is being very Cersei. All those points may have been contrived and carried out too rapidly for the overall story, but I think the same conclusion would have been reached even if the show had full length seasons 7 and 8, and even perhaps a full length 9th season.


Some other complaints, like all the lore and imagery of the White Walkers meaning nothing in the end, or inconsistent magic, I think could all be explained by GRRM simply not planning to ever bring those back up in the end, or at least never planned for them to be important. There are certain aspects that point to an overall inconsistency of sorts in the lore, but that's not said as a slight against GRRM or any of the shows writers, it may have been just in keeping with the themes of the whole story. Sure the walkers were obsessed with imagery as signs, but why does that have to mean anything in the end? Just because something is brought up seemingly as a major plot point doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be closed. There are reasons for that, because life is like that sometimes. For starters, we've only been conditioned to that due to common tropes in story telling, but it isn't a hard and fast rule -- it's just incredibly hard to produce a highly successful work that goes out of its way to avoid any and all tropes, and that's because people find tropes pleasing in their stories.
There are certain trends that practically define the whole story of A Song of Ice and Fire, one of them being a willingness to just toss aside what were once primary protagonists and antagonists, and it was done often. This never really seemed like it should have ever had an actual primary protagonist that would save the day, this was something more like a journey through the history of a people and who rose and fell over time doesn't need to make sense thematically, it just needs at least a certain consistency in getting the characters to those plot points believably.
Unfortunately the final seasons may have had the major plot points right but they were just terribly ineffective at realistically moving the characters from A to B. That was covered earlier with the idea that GRRM is a pantser, or one who goes by the seat of his pants, as opposed to a significant plotter. But if he already had major plot points, that kind of weakens the argument too, but I suspect even most who let the characters write the story (Stephen King is well known for this too) still have major plot points in mind. There's always a little contrivance getting characters to the various plot points, but some are much better at making it seem like the only logical outcome. While others are obvious in that they consider the plot points as the driver of the story, characters be damned, the seat of the pants style of writers believe in plot points and themes just as much but they believe in character-driven storytelling to take us on that journey with them.