Having tread on tires if you always drive in perfect weather?

[fuzzybabybunny]

So I know that racecars have bald tires to maximize surface contact on the road. In places like California where the weather is always perfect, is it actually better to drive on tires that are close to bald since the roads are always dry? And then switch them out for tires with tread when you drive to other places?

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
So I know that racecars have bald tires to maximize surface contact on the road. In places like California where the weather is always perfect, is it actually better to drive on tires that are close to bald since the roads are always dry? And then switch them out for tires with tread when you drive to other places?

I think you'll find that states have laws requiring tread on street tires. Driving on bald tires will get you pulled over.

 

[Zenmervolt]

If there is the slightest bit of rain or sand or dirt on the road, slick tires have very poor traction. It's not practical to change out the tires all the time for street cars.

Also, race tires are made from much softer rubber than any street tire. By the time a street tire has worn down to almost bald there is very little rubber left and they are much easier to puncture. Don't do this on street tires.

ZV

 

[Bignate603]

In perfectly dry weather on good roads tires without tread will get better traction. However they're very prone to losing traction if there's just a tiny little bit of water on the roads. A little bit of rain, a puddle, or anything like that you can end up sliding. I bet you could even slide pretty easily if there was blown dirt or dust on the road. There's a reason why you're required to have tire treads.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Near bald tires are harder rubber, NOT like slicks which are a softer rubber. Grip won't be good.

 

[StageLeft]

I have NEVER found low-tread tires, even in very dry conditions, to grip as well as new ones. This is for the reasons above about race tires being a different material. Passenger cars have a very hard rubber and if the tire is bald it will just slide over the ridges in a road; the tread on a tire however digs into the imperfections in the road. The longer the tread, the more if flexes and holds on, which is why even if nothing on the road is getting into the "trough" of the tire's tread, a fresher tire will grip better than an old on--in dry conditions.

I think. The above certainly makes sense to me, anyway

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
So I know that racecars have bald tires to maximize surface contact on the road. In places like California where the weather is always perfect, is it actually better to drive on tires that are close to bald since the roads are always dry? And then switch them out for tires with tread when you drive to other places?

sand FTMFL

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
If there is the slightest bit of rain or sand or dirt on the road, slick tires have very poor traction. It's not practical to change out the tires all the time for street cars.

Also, race tires are made from much softer rubber than any street tire. By the time a street tire has worn down to almost bald there is very little rubber left and they are much easier to puncture. Don't do this on street tires.

ZV

Not to mention the fact that the rubber is harder with age. Motorcycle tires get like this after they've had a bunch of heat cycles through them and they get worn down.

The tires on my car are getting old and in need of replacement. I'd never let them get to the point the OP is talking about...and it never rains here. They just don't perform nearly as well, nor are they safe.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Bignate603
In perfectly dry weather on good roads tires without tread will get better traction. However they're very prone to losing traction if there's just a tiny little bit of water on the roads. A little bit of rain, a puddle, or anything like that you can end up sliding. I bet you could even slide pretty easily if there was blown dirt or dust on the road. There's a reason why you're required to have tire treads.

Not worn tires. They will be much worse than fresh rubber in fact.

Slicks? Yes.

Worn out street tires with no tread? No fucking way.

 

[brblx]

yeah, the rubber compound isn't going to be the same in the whole tire. i would guess most of the tread ply is made from similar material, but worn tires having worse dry traction than new tires is pretty common. then again, maybe that's just from the aging of the rubber.

there's no point in trying use 'almost' worn out tires as ghetto slicks, as the grooves still aren't going to be in good contact with the road. you'd need to wear the tire completely bald to improve contact area, and by then you'd likely be exposing the the nylon or steel belts underneath. or damn close to it.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I guess I'm getting new tires then. I can get tires from Tirerack for $51 each + $37 shipping.

$240 total for 4 tires + $15 per tire to mount? = $300

Costco is $83 per tire + $15 installation, but lifetime rotations, balancing, etc.

$400 total for 4 tires.

Which is more worth it? Is lifetime rotations + balancing really worth an extra $100?

 

[brblx]

depends. who changes your oil? if they do rotations for free or offer it at a discount, it might be cheaper to just do that. generally you should rotate every other oil change- balancing is not a necessity. quality tires can retain their balance remarkably well. i've rarely ever found a 50-75% worn michelin be significantly out of balance. heck, even the past two pairs of cheap kumhos on my own car didn't ever need balancing.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Bignate603
In perfectly dry weather on good roads tires without tread will get better traction. However they're very prone to losing traction if there's just a tiny little bit of water on the roads. A little bit of rain, a puddle, or anything like that you can end up sliding. I bet you could even slide pretty easily if there was blown dirt or dust on the road. There's a reason why you're required to have tire treads.

Not worn tires. They will be much worse than fresh rubber in fact.

Slicks? Yes.

Worn out street tires with no tread? No fucking way.

Not necessarily. The more-worn tires at the last driving school I went to were apparently more sticky than the new tires. Then again, a complete set of tires only lasts 3 days...so the rubber wasn't exactly old and dry.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Ok. Well if I don't really need to balance tires that often, how about I just order from Tire Rack and rotate my tires myself in the future? Could save meself $100.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Bignate603
In perfectly dry weather on good roads tires without tread will get better traction. However they're very prone to losing traction if there's just a tiny little bit of water on the roads. A little bit of rain, a puddle, or anything like that you can end up sliding. I bet you could even slide pretty easily if there was blown dirt or dust on the road. There's a reason why you're required to have tire treads.

Not worn tires. They will be much worse than fresh rubber in fact.

Slicks? Yes.

Worn out street tires with no tread? No fucking way.

Not necessarily. The more-worn tires at the last driving school I went to were apparently more sticky than the new tires. Then again, a complete set of tires only lasts 3 days...so the rubber wasn't exactly old and dry.

Shaved tires are not the same as worn out street tires.

I've owned a few performance cars and none of them ever handled or stopped as well with worn out tires as they did after installing fresh high performance street rubber.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Bignate603
In perfectly dry weather on good roads tires without tread will get better traction. However they're very prone to losing traction if there's just a tiny little bit of water on the roads. A little bit of rain, a puddle, or anything like that you can end up sliding. I bet you could even slide pretty easily if there was blown dirt or dust on the road. There's a reason why you're required to have tire treads.

Not worn tires. They will be much worse than fresh rubber in fact.

Slicks? Yes.

Worn out street tires with no tread? No fucking way.

Not necessarily. The more-worn tires at the last driving school I went to were apparently more sticky than the new tires. Then again, a complete set of tires only lasts 3 days...so the rubber wasn't exactly old and dry.

Shaved tires are not the same as worn out street tires.

I've owned a few performance cars and none of them ever handled or stopped as well with worn out tires as they did after installing fresh high performance street rubber.

I didn't say shaved tires. I'm just repeating what we were told by these guys. It makes sense to me - more rubber in contact with the road = more traction (assuming the quality of the remaining rubber has not been compromised).

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Bignate603
In perfectly dry weather on good roads tires without tread will get better traction. However they're very prone to losing traction if there's just a tiny little bit of water on the roads. A little bit of rain, a puddle, or anything like that you can end up sliding. I bet you could even slide pretty easily if there was blown dirt or dust on the road. There's a reason why you're required to have tire treads.

Not worn tires. They will be much worse than fresh rubber in fact.

Slicks? Yes.

Worn out street tires with no tread? No fucking way.

Not necessarily. The more-worn tires at the last driving school I went to were apparently more sticky than the new tires. Then again, a complete set of tires only lasts 3 days...so the rubber wasn't exactly old and dry.

Shaved tires are not the same as worn out street tires.

I've owned a few performance cars and none of them ever handled or stopped as well with worn out tires as they did after installing fresh high performance street rubber.

I didn't say shaved tires. I'm just repeating what we were told by these guys. It makes sense to me - more rubber in contact with the road = more traction (assuming the quality of the remaining rubber has not been compromised).

You're talking about broken in tires, not worn out tires which the original poster is asking about.

As per TireRack:

"Tires are comprised of many layers of rubber, steel and fabric. Due to these different components, your new tires require a break-in period to ensure that they deliver their normal ride quality and maximum performance. As tires are cured, a release lubricant is applied to prevent them from sticking in their mold. Some of the lubricant stays on the surface of your tires, reducing traction until it is worn away. Five hundred miles of easy acceleration, cornering and braking will allow the mold release lubricant to wear off, allowing the other tire components to begin working together. It is also important to note that your old tires probably had very little tread depth remaining when you felt it was time to replace them. As any autocrosser or racer who has tread rubber shaved off of his tires will tell you, low tread depth tires respond quicker."Don't be surprised if your new tires are a little slower to respond (even if you use the exact same tire as before). Their new, full depth brings with it a little more tread squirm until they wear down."


So it's not more rubber on the road making the slightly used tires perform better, it's the removal of slippery manufacturing residue getting scrubbed off.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Worn tyres on the road are bad mmmkay?

Link

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Pariah

So it's not more rubber on the road making the slightly used tires perform better, it's the removal of slippery manufacturing residue getting scrubbed off.

Dude, the tires go from new to junk (read: BALD) in three days. That lubricant is probably gone after the first braking exercise.

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Worn tyres on the road are bad mmmkay?

Link

That's talking about wet traction, in which case I entirely agree. Underinflated tires also dramatically decrease the ability of a tire to discharge water.

 

[radioouman]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Ok. Well if I don't really need to balance tires that often, how about I just order from Tire Rack and rotate my tires myself in the future? Could save meself $100.

lifetime rotation is easily worth $100.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: brblx
depends. who changes your oil? if they do rotations for free or offer it at a discount, it might be cheaper to just do that. generally you should rotate every other oil change- balancing is not a necessity. quality tires can retain their balance remarkably well. i've rarely ever found a 50-75% worn michelin be significantly out of balance. heck, even the past two pairs of cheap kumhos on my own car didn't ever need balancing.

i think id pay for initial balancing when buying tires before rotations. balancing is a must for a new tire IMO, ive seen too many old steel rims get bent out of whack with an unbalanced tire. hell, my best friends husband works at a shop, mounted his own tires and didnt balance. came back the next day, balanced all 4 because the car was shimmying at 35. he toasted 2 of the rims, had to replace them. you could see the wobble in them.

i tend to spend extra on tires for my truck. i drive thru some pretty awful places during the course of my job, and the heat out here destroys cheap tires quickly. also, most cheaper tires wont handle speeds over 85 or 90 usually. not that i spend a lot of time at those speeds, but the possibility is there.

 

[jtvang125]

Who said California has perfect weather? We don't get a lot of rain but it does rain and even flooding at time. It also snows here too at higher elevations. So having slicks all year round is not practical.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Pariah

So it's not more rubber on the road making the slightly used tires perform better, it's the removal of slippery manufacturing residue getting scrubbed off.

Dude, the tires go from new to junk (read: BALD) in three days. That lubricant is probably gone after the first braking exercise.

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Worn tyres on the road are bad mmmkay?

Link

That's talking about wet traction, in which case I entirely agree. Underinflated tires also dramatically decrease the ability of a tire to discharge water.

I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was merely pointing out exactly how bad worn tyres are should you get caught out in a shower...

It's just not worth it on the road.

On a racetrack is a different matter, and more complicated.

 

[IcePickFreak]

This is really no different than what guys with 'hobby' cars do all the time. You'll see big cammed/supercharged cars running around with MT E.T. Streets which is pretty much as close to a straight slick that you can run on the road, legally anyway. Although this is only on the rear (wheel, typically anyway), you'll never see these guys running these cars around in the rain for good reason. How much water do you think this is going to push out from under the tread when the roads are wet? I've daily driven cars on them in the past when their was no rain in the forecast. However, they're drag tires so the sidewall is made to squat to increase the footprint on acceleration so they're a bit squirrely in turns and not suggested for highway/extended high speeds.

That said, I'd guess your looking for something more balanced for all four wheels and all around driving. I'm not aware of any DOT legal slick for that application. High performance radials are going to be your best bet and minimize the groves. If your going all out look for a soft compound tire for the best traction, but expect the treadwear to suffer. Surely if a high performance radial is good enough for a Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche etc it should suit you just fine. If not, I want to see pics of the vehicle they're going on.

 

[Apex]

You can try DOT-R roadracing tires, but there are some definite tradeoffs (low treadlife, needs heat for maximum traction, very poor traction in deep water).