Having COVID doesn't seem to offer much protection against reinfection...

[MtnMan]

It's looking like the protection one develops from surviving COVID is not the solution to this republican herd immunity, especially with the delta variety.

North Carolina has seen 10,812 COVID-19 reinfections, according to state data

The CDC definition says a reinfection is "a case of COVID-19 in someone with a positive laboratory test who previously had laboratory confirmed COVID-19 at least 90 days prior."

abc11.com

"NCDHHS reports, from March 1 through September 20, 10,812 reinfections and 200 post-vaccination reinfections."

 

[Sunburn74]

There is a CDC study that showed the risk of infection was 2x as high in people with a prior known covid infection as opposed to people without one.
Probably multiple factors at play including host susceptibility to infection (people who get infected are probably a little biologically different than people who don't) and behaviors/attitudes towards infection.

At the end of the day, researchers have already shown that antibodies from a COVID infection only last for 2-3 months but we live in a world where truth, facts, reasoning and logic no longer matter. I mean what use are facts when people are claiming COVID vaccines cause demon babies that age extremely fast or that give people tentacles and allow the government to control you with AI.

 

[woolfe9998]

It mainly offers protection against severe illness, meaning hospitalization, long term effects, and death.

It should be noted that the Pfizer vaccine may have significantly less longevity than that of Moderna. Not only was a comparative study published last week, but a new study of only Pfizer published today says the protection begins to wear off after 2 months. Still protects against severe illness for a long while after. We haven't reached the limit yet for them to know how long.

Studies confirm waning immunity from Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine | CNN

Two real-world studies published Wednesday confirm that the immune protection offered by two doses of Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine drops off after two months or so, although protection against severe disease, hospitalization and death remains strong.

www.cnn.com

This probably explains why my sister-in-law, who is a nurse and got vaxxed in January, had a moderately severe case last month. No hospitalization but was on her back for a week with high fever.

Wish I knew this back in May when I got mine. But the vax center I went to just randomly had Pfizer. Wife got Moderna, again just randomly.

I think in light of this new information, CDC needs to reassess its stance on booster shots.

 

[dullard]

Lifelong immunity to a disease is rare. The best example is a close cousin to Covid: the common cold (some of which are caused by coronaviruses). You can get the common cold many times in your life. Anyone claiming immunity was just wishful thinking at best or outright lying at worst.

Booster shots are definitely needed and may be needed repeatedly for years to come. But only as long as that does not come at the expense of first vaccinations.

Infection + Vaccine is 2.34 times better at preventing a second infection than Infection alone: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

 

[brycejones]

Well so much for that anti-vax line.

 

[desy]

AFAIK you have some immunity to the variant you caught but not all the others. . .

 

[MrPickins]

AFAIK you have some immunity to the variant you caught but not all the others. . .

If that was true, the current vaccines wouldn't be effective across variants, as they all use proteins from the original variant.

The truth is that the variants aren't so wildly different as to cause your immune system to work from scratch. You may not have as much immunity, but it's not zero.

That said, vaccination is still the much better option than risking reinfection.

 

[woolfe9998]

Well so much for that anti-vax line.

Yes, but unfortunately recent news that the vaccines, especially Pfizer, offer less long term protection than was hoped for is only going to give them a boost.

 

[nakedfrog]

Well so much for that anti-vax line.

Oh, I'm sure they'll offer up reasons why this doesn't apply to them...

 

[RY62]

How can these 2 studies, just weeks apart, have such seemingly different results?

The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label. The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than never-infected, vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19....

... “It’s a textbook example of how natural immunity is really better than vaccination,” says Charlotte Thålin, a physician and immunology researcher at Danderyd Hospital and the Karolinska Institute who studies the immune responses to SARS-CoV-2. “To my knowledge, it’s the first time [this] has really been shown in the context of COVID-19.”...

...The new analysis relies on the database of Maccabi Healthcare Services, which enrolls about 2.5 million Israelis. The study, led by Tal Patalon and Sivan Gazit at KSM, the system’s research and innovation arm, found in two analyses that never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus. In one analysis, comparing more than 32,000 people in the health system, the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher.

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

I see now that the OP article is not discussing protection from infection but protection from reinfection where infection plus vaccine is best.

 

[manly]

Yes, but unfortunately recent news that the vaccines, especially Pfizer, offer less long term protection than was hoped for is only going to give them a boost.

The recent studies are important developments, but it's a bit extreme to say they offer less long term protection than was hoped for. First off, the clinical trials were designed to test efficacy against COVID-19, the disease. The COVID-19 vaccines weren't designed and tested to prevent viral transmission. But as you noted, the vaccines are still doing their job at preventing severe disease. Neutralizing antibodies are the first line of defense, and it seems like we'll want to get a Pfizer booster at some point. Still, the immune system has different mechanisms beyond short-term antibodies, so it's premature to say they're not good at long-term protection.

 

[MtnMan]

Lifelong immunity to a disease is rare. The best example is a close cousin to Covid: the common cold (some of which are caused by coronaviruses). You can get the common cold many times in your life. Anyone claiming immunity was just wishful thinking at best or outright lying at worst.

Booster shots are definitely needed and may be needed repeatedly for years to come. But only as long as that does not come at the expense of first vaccinations.

Infection + Vaccine is 2.34 times better at preventing a second infection than Infection alone: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

The "common" cold isn't a good example. There are over two hundred virus that More than 200 different viruses are known to cause the symptoms of the common cold. An estimated 30-35% of all adult colds are caused by rhinoviruses.

Though none are 'lifetime' many vaccines that address specific virus protect for years or decades. Measles, mumps, polio, smallpox to name a few. The current pneumonia vaccines are recommended every 5 years.

 

[manly]

Regarding long-term protection, only time will tell but some scientists are quite optimistic:

Immunity To COVID-19 Could Last Longer Than You'd Think

New studies look at how the mRNA vaccines affect the cells in your body in the short run and the long run. The findings are a counterpoint to concerns about waning immunity.

www.npr.org

 

[Spacehead]

I have a family member that had covid in January, vaccinated some time later & caught it again a few weeks ago. Neither time they had it were the symptoms severe. This last time said it felt just like allergies.
Two other vaccinated family members had it too recently(all 3 of them got it at the same time). All are doing good as of now.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I know several people who had diagnosed cases of covid. None have been reinfected.
I think the reasonably safe thing to say is someone who recovered from COVID likely have a strong protection vs hospitalization/death.
Sort of like having the Pfizer or J&J vaccine. Great protection for months and good protection vs hospital/death for longer.
DO NOT BE A NOOB AND THINK THIS MEANS SKIP VACCINATION.
Just take the fucking needle and get it done bitches.

 

[dullard]

I know several people who had diagnosed cases of covid. None have been reinfected.
I think the reasonably safe thing to say is someone who recovered from COVID likely have a strong protection vs hospitalization/death.

You need to be careful with statistics of anecdotes. 13.25% of Americans have been confirmed positive. In the unrealistic extreme of Covid giving no protection at all, then 0.1325^2 = 1.76% of Americans would be confirmed positive twice. Anything that low means that many Americans will not yet know anyone who has been reinfected (yet). And of course, infection does provide some protection, so the actual percent of reinfected Americans will be far lower than 1.76% (probably well under 1%). Because of this, I don't think you yet can use your anecdotal data to conclude your "reasonably safe thing to say".

I agree with the rest of your post though.

 

[hal2kilo]

It's looking like the protection one develops from surviving COVID is not the solution to this republican herd immunity, especially with the delta variety.

North Carolina has seen 10,812 COVID-19 reinfections, according to state data

The CDC definition says a reinfection is "a case of COVID-19 in someone with a positive laboratory test who previously had laboratory confirmed COVID-19 at least 90 days prior."

abc11.com

"NCDHHS reports, from March 1 through September 20, 10,812 reinfections and 200 post-vaccination reinfections."

Sure herd immunity works. Small pocks gets herd immunity by drastically reducing the total population to those that were lucky enough the have natural immunity/survivability in the first place. Too many people on the planet anyway. /s

 

[Fenixgoon]

How can these 2 studies, just weeks apart, have such seemingly different results?

The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label. The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than never-infected, vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19....

... “It’s a textbook example of how natural immunity is really better than vaccination,” says Charlotte Thålin, a physician and immunology researcher at Danderyd Hospital and the Karolinska Institute who studies the immune responses to SARS-CoV-2. “To my knowledge, it’s the first time [this] has really been shown in the context of COVID-19.”...

...The new analysis relies on the database of Maccabi Healthcare Services, which enrolls about 2.5 million Israelis. The study, led by Tal Patalon and Sivan Gazit at KSM, the system’s research and innovation arm, found in two analyses that never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus. In one analysis, comparing more than 32,000 people in the health system, the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher.

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

I see now that the OP article is not discussing protection from infection but protection from reinfection where infection plus vaccine is best.

the problem with the latter is that you have to get infected in the first place. getting infected: creates a risk for mutation, creates a risk you may die, creates a risk of long-term complications, and places stresses on the healthcare system.

by contrast, getting the vaccine dramatically reduces the risk of all of the above.

i'll let a competent PhD molecular biologist explain the rest.

No, your antibodies are not better than vaccination: An explainer

Infection does offer some immune protection—but it's unreliable compared with vaccines.

arstechnica.com

TLDR: people need to get the goddamn vaccine

 

[BoomerD]

Lifelong immunity to a disease is rare. The best example is a close cousin to Covid: the common cold (some of which are caused by coronaviruses). You can get the common cold many times in your life. Anyone claiming immunity was just wishful thinking at best or outright lying at worst.

Booster shots are definitely needed and may be needed repeatedly for years to come. But only as long as that does not come at the expense of first vaccinations.

Infection + Vaccine is 2.34 times better at preventing a second infection than Infection alone: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

BUT I HAZ NACHERAL IMMUNITEE!

 

[Dulanic]

The "common" cold isn't a good example. There are over two hundred virus that More than 200 different viruses are known to cause the symptoms of the common cold. An estimated 30-35% of all adult colds are caused by rhinoviruses.

Though none are 'lifetime' many vaccines that address specific virus protect for years or decades. Measles, mumps, polio, smallpox to name a few. The current pneumonia vaccines are recommended every 5 years.

Agree, it's also why there is no vaccine for it. There are many different viruses.

 

[Muse]

The human immune system is somewhat complicated. Now, I've heard doctors talk about blood antibodies, T-cell immunity too. My impression is that the T-cell immunity (they're stored in blood marrow IIRC) is much much longer lasting but isn't as quickly able to respond to a sudden infection. Very old people who were exposed to the Spanish Flu back around 1918 have been shown to retain immunity to it by virtue of T-cell immunity. The same might be true for covid-19, and possibly all variants AFAIK. But relying on that in our efforts to achieve herd immunity is likely nowhere near as good as vaccines + boosters. Those should produce the T-cell component but also have the blood antibody protection that would help in stanching the spread of the virus's strains.

 

[Paratus]

Just realized how broad my (extended) families/friends COVID status are. I know people who’ve had:

• 2x Moderna
• 2x Pfizer
• 1x J&J + 2x Pfizer
• COVID + 2x Pfizer
• 2x Pfizer + COVID + Regeneron

All of them doing fine and only the J&J + Pfizer showing signs of possible super powers.

 

[Muse]

Just realized how broad my (extended) families/friends COVID status are. I know people who’ve had:

• 2x Moderna
• 2x Pfizer
• 1x J&J + 2x Pfizer
• COVID + 2x Pfizer
• 2x Pfizer + COVID + Regeneron

All of them doing fine and only the J&J + Pfizer showing signs of possible super powers.

I heard more than once that Covid + one Covid shot is recommended, not 2 covid shots for previously infected.

 

[MichaelMay]

Lifelong immunity to a disease is rare. The best example is a close cousin to Covid: the common cold (some of which are caused by coronaviruses). You can get the common cold many times in your life. Anyone claiming immunity was just wishful thinking at best or outright lying at worst.

Booster shots are definitely needed and may be needed repeatedly for years to come. But only as long as that does not come at the expense of first vaccinations.

Infection + Vaccine is 2.34 times better at preventing a second infection than Infection alone: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

Colds caused by the coronavirus are the common cold so yes and there aren't really that many coronaviruses going around that can infect humans.

The immunity is very fleeting just like with most RNA virus infection immunities so while the mRNA vaccines WILL have a higher T-cell and antibody response it isn't something that lasts forever.

This man is informed and knows what he's talking about.

 

[Jaskalas]

Lifelong immunity to a disease is rare.

Aside from the flu, which "mutates" and is a "different strain" every "year".
We were always taught / raised, and "everyone knew" that having a virus meant you never caught it again. Period.

There is going to be a !@#$ ton of backlash against any notion otherwise.