Have you wondered what could have caused AG Barr, formerly known as a man of integrity by many, to become a Trump Sucophant and supine boot licker?

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
He lost his mind, that's what happened. Wasn't a strong mind to begin with.
Again, too ill defined for me.
There are a non-trivial number of old lawyers and politicians who have totally absolved themselves of the problems facing the country despite having long worked to cause them. Blaming it on a lack of belief in god is them trying to self righteously sucker you out of that understanding.
I like this because you seek explanation for what you see that points to motivation.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
One of the main reasons a leftist democrat like Michael Moore predicted a Trump victory is that he put away any echo chamber prejudices he may have had and traveled to parts of the country that are dismissed as deplorables,

perhaps if more self-righteous liberal types came down from their high and mighty lofts in their ivory towers full of celebrities and virtue signaling social justice warrior types and mingled with the little people and listened to their concerns instead of lumping them together as some homogeneous conservative brain defective group like the DOJ in the above example, maybe, just maybe Trump wouldn't be President.

I think you make a good argument here, similar to what I tried to warn about when I feared Democrats weren't taking the Trump campaign seriously and were projecting a completely inadequate and off target message. But I am guilty as charged of the brain defective thingi.

Where we may differ, I think, is that for me deplorables are deplorable because they feel they are as accused but are not responsible for feeling that way and liberals with their stupidity brain defect are arrogant without any blame. Both liberals and conservatives are brain defective and neither are at fault. If one does not lay down judgment one can't pick up self respect through forgiveness of the other. Nobody should ever criticize and if you can't do that at least one should be able to step back from it and not take oneself too seriously. People point at others because they feel guilty of something, I think.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
I'd first have to define "man of integrity" before applying that to Barr.
We assume way too much of these guys, especially anyone that would collude with Donald trump.
Who says Barr was ever a "man of integrity"?
If a crook called another fellow crook a "man of integrity", would that necessarily mean anything?
And besides, aren't all of these high powered men in congress and in politics part of those dubious secret organizations we always hear about?
The ole buddy buddy secret societies?
I know the Bush men were, and Bret Kavanaugh also was and still is, and most every politician of power, CEO executive, filthy rich corporation head, and the list goes on and on.
With Donald Trump now in power, the men of the secret societies have found their opportunity. Have found their chance to control and to take control of more than they ever had imagined. They not only have all the wealth and power, now they can ensure it stays that way forever.
People have this false illusion that everything is on the up and up. That people in power are automatically moral, fair, deserving, and trustworthy people. For the sake of argument, lets just say they are not worthy nor trustworthy. None of them. Not a single one.
Getting back to Barr, William Barr is no different.
It's not that Barr was ever a "man of integrity", it's more a case of now we know he never was.
Barr's association with Donald Trump will be his legacy, not some idiotic idea that Barr was ever a "man of integrity". One crook patting another crook on the back.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
I'd first have to define "man of integrity" before applying that to Barr.
We assume way too much of these guys, especially anyone that would collude with Donald trump.
Who says Barr was ever a "man of integrity"?
If a crook called another fellow crook a "man of integrity", would that necessarily mean anything?
And besides, aren't all of these high powered men in congress and in politics part of those dubious secret organizations we always hear about?
The ole buddy buddy secret societies?
I know the Bush men were, and Bret Kavanaugh also was and still is, and most every politician of power, CEO executive, filthy rich corporation head, and the list goes on and on.
With Donald Trump now in power, the men of the secret societies have found their opportunity. Have found their chance to control and to take control of more than they ever had imagined. They not only have all the wealth and power, now they can ensure it stays that way forever.
People have this false illusion that everything is on the up and up. That people in power are automatically moral, fair, deserving, and trustworthy people. For the sake of argument, lets just say they are not worthy nor trustworthy. None of them. Not a single one.
Getting back to Barr, William Barr is no different.
It's not that Barr was ever a "man of integrity", it's more a case of now we know he never was.
Barr's association with Donald Trump will be his legacy, not some idiotic idea that Barr was ever a "man of integrity". One crook patting another crook on the back.
After you say we assume way too much you go on to make a ton of absolute statements. Maybe you assume too much but don't notice you're making what others might call assumptions as you describe yet others. What I think I can state as factual is that I have seen person after person on MSNBC that worked in the DOJ comment on how surprised they have been by Barr's behavior. This made me curious to find an explanation. I think I know it now. That was what I wanted to share.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,017
8,545
136
Attorney General Bill Barr:

"This is not decay. This is organized destruction. Secularists and their allies have marshaled all the forces of mass communication, popular culture, the entertainment industry, and academia in an unremitting assault on religion & traditional values."

Isn't that a direct translation of an old speech by some Taliban leader or other? It sounds awfully familiar...
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Attorney General Bill Barr:



Isn't that a direct translation of an old speech by some Taliban leader or other? It sounds awfully familiar...
I think it is a core issue that lies at the heart of everything. Einstein warned about it regarding nuclear weapons. Perhaps someone can find his actual words that went something like contrasting how our intellectual development has far outpaced our emotional development.

It rests on a fundamental question, a deeply unconscious feeling that is a lie and a mistake, that man is born evil and in need of salvation rather than born with a desire to love that is turn to hate and fear by being put down and told we are worthless.

Every time someone tries to open the door to the light there is somebody filled with fear who tries to seize control. How can you have a world of equality of people when we feel so bad about ourselves we need to feel superior. And if you try to drag yourself up, somebody will try to knock you down.

Our world is built on the manipulation of others needs because of our own. In a world filled with want and misery, the haves will do everything they can to prevent any change.

What happens when a traumatized person begins to get in touch with their feelings? Their life falls apart. They can no longer maintain. Emotions of rage come pouring out and then the reliving of the past begins, and then the healing begins. The self can integratewith real understanding.

Since the scientific revolution and the quest for real understanding, all our sacred cows have faced analysis. All the props we constructed to keep us in chains from acting out our madness have started falling apart. As our fear of the forces of control lessen we experience both the movement to light and the anger and hate at the loss of self as children.

The love of God makes people more like him and does two things depending on how he is envisioned. The God of love pulls the lover of God to be more like him, and the God of wrath creates a vengeful follower who will use the whip to enforce His demands. This is the ultimate corruption of religion, the righteous self certain who pretend to do God’s work.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,407
8,698
136
A little too easy for my taste, sorry. I also do not accept the idea he was born with no capacity for integrity. I think he had to have lost it somewhere.
I think he lost it when he had to deal with the Mueller report.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I think he lost it when he had to deal with the Mueller report.

I believe it was long gone when GHWB made him AG. He'd already made his bones in the GOP long before that. Unlike Moonbeam, I'm not particularly interested in the reasons he sold his soul. The fact that he did speaks for itself.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
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I believe it was long gone when GHWB made him AG. He'd already made his bones in the GOP long before that. Unlike Moonbeam, I'm not particularly interested in the reasons he sold his soul. The fact that he did speaks for itself.
But I think your lack of interest speaks to you. I would want to know why I felt that way.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Because American culture warriors have been parroting that crap since at least the early 80s. Carring on the traditions of such previous groups as the Birchers/Mcarthyites in the 1950s and the Know Nothings of the 1850s and...

It's a classic fascist propaganda technique-

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,908
136
Because American culture warriors have been parroting that crap since at least the early 80s. Carring on the traditions of such previous groups as the Birchers/Mcarthyites in the 1950s and the Know Nothings of the 1850s and...
One of the reasons I say he never had it
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Why does that work. Could the reason it's classical be because of a lack of interest as to why?

It's been studied by minds greater than our own for decades, both to find ways to inhibit & exploit it. Barr chooses the latter. The reasons for that never change. It's avaricious greed & lust for power.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
It's been studied by minds greater than our own for decades, both to find ways to inhibit & exploit it. Barr chooses the latter. The reasons for that never change. It's avaricious greed & lust for power.
Why do people feel avaricious greed and lust for power? Minds far greater than mine have noted that people often label things so they can stick them on a shelf, that once they are boxed up they are done with. I believe this is one way we conveniently avoid exposure to thoughts that could reveal painful memories we do not want to face. Because doing so is a barrier to healing, I poke around as best I can with a stick to see what might cling to it by stirring. That too could be called an assumption, but it matches what I have experienced.

To be as clear as I know how to be, I believe that not everybody will succumb to greed or lust which raises for me the question as to why. So is it that greed and lust are natural to human nature or are they trained into us? If they are inherently potential in everybody, why are some motivated by them and others can resist? If they are acquired, by what process?

You might also ask what would be the emotional needs of a child deprived of self respect and told it could only be had from others. What would a population of people with that illness look like? Also, if any of this has any meaning, it might also imply a cure.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Why do people feel avaricious greed and lust for power? Minds far greater than mine have noted that people often label things so they can stick them on a shelf, that once they are boxed up they are done with. I believe this is one way we conveniently avoid exposure to thoughts that could reveal painful memories we do not want to face. Because doing so is a barrier to healing, I poke around as best I can with a stick to see what might cling to it by stirring. That too could be called an assumption, but it matches what I have experienced.

To be as clear as I know how to be, I believe that not everybody will succumb to greed or lust which raises for me the question as to why. So is it that greed and lust are natural to human nature or are they trained into us? If they are inherently potential in everybody, why are some motivated by them and others can resist? If they are acquired, by what process?

You might also ask what would be the emotional needs of a child deprived of self respect and told it could only be had from others. What would a population of people with that illness look like? Also, if any of this has any meaning, it might also imply a cure.

I've often looked within & mused of such things myself. OTOH, I'm a practical person. It's obvious to me that a lot of people can't see a person like Barr for what he truly is let alone how & why he got that way.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
I've often looked within & mused of such things myself. OTOH, I'm a practical person. It's obvious to me that a lot of people can't see a person like Barr for what he truly is let alone how & why he got that way.
I have argued my position as far as I wish to. I agree that lots of people don't see Barr the way I do.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,519
136
Why do people feel avaricious greed and lust for power? Minds far greater than mine have noted that people often label things so they can stick them on a shelf, that once they are boxed up they are done with. I believe this is one way we conveniently avoid exposure to thoughts that could reveal painful memories we do not want to face. Because doing so is a barrier to healing, I poke around as best I can with a stick to see what might cling to it by stirring. That too could be called an assumption, but it matches what I have experienced.

To be as clear as I know how to be, I believe that not everybody will succumb to greed or lust which raises for me the question as to why. So is it that greed and lust are natural to human nature or are they trained into us? If they are inherently potential in everybody, why are some motivated by them and others can resist? If they are acquired, by what process?

You might also ask what would be the emotional needs of a child deprived of self respect and told it could only be had from others. What would a population of people with that illness look like? Also, if any of this has any meaning, it might also imply a cure.
Think of the age old tale of Scrooge. Number one, some people just are not capable of empathy. Number two, even if a person is capable of empathy, it will never be triggered unless that person is exposed to the damage they cause. Insanely rich and powerful people are especially prone to missing this step because their money/power keeps them insulated from it. Number three, your philosophy comes into play when the person is exposed to it. Does the person acknowledge their mistakes and decide to make changes so as to never cause harm again? Or does their ego kick in to protect itself with tortured logic? Conservatives, it seems, are especially vulnerable to their ego.