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Have you taken a look at the various state ballot measures?

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,773
11
81
Here they are...

How does Massachusetts not vote to repeal its state income tax? Who wouldn't want that?

(Some votes still being counted.)

Arizona
Ban on Gay Marriage: Yes

Arkansas
Ban on Gay Couples Adopting Children: Yes

California
Ban on Gay Marriage (Prop 8): Yes

Florida
Ban on Gay Marriage: Yes


The Dems should look at these results and see that the country has not swung to the left...socially...and remember that most Americans are sending Obama to Washington to "fix" the economy.

 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
3
0
Saying that the country has not swung left by looking at a one time ballot initiative doesn't make sense.
The results may indicate a swing from what people would have voted 4 or 8 years ago.
Especially on the Gay Marriage thing issue, let's not forget that it was the most liberal interpretation, and that civil unions may have fared much better.
Anyway, ALL polls show that young people have a radically different opinion on this issue and that in 8 or 16 years the results will be reversed.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Here they are...

How does Massachusetts not vote to repeal its state income tax? Who wouldn't want that?

(Some votes still being counted.)

Arizona
Ban on Gay Marriage: Yes

Arkansas
Ban on Gay Couples Adopting Children: Yes

California
Ban on Gay Marriage (Prop 8): Yes

Florida
Ban on Gay Marriage: Yes


The Dems should look at these results and see that the country has not swung to the left...socially...and remember that most Americans are sending Obama to Washington to "fix" the economy.
Right, and John Kennedy should not have pushed civil rights more than the polling said the public already agreed with. You are expressing support for bigotry.

As for the MA tax - people who are fiscally responsible, who understand good public policy, would not vote to repeal the way the government is paid for, the progressive income tax.

I understand that some children think that getting rid of taxes makes free money and government function without any money.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: Craig234


Right, and John Kennedy should not have pushed civil rights more than the polling said the public already agreed with. You are expressing support for bigotry.
Yeah, just label them and make their position meaningless. Just too bad with these passing votes the number of states with such laws is now creeping close to 40. But I thought the national amendment was bad and the right thing was letting states decide the matter, isn't that what's going on.

As for the MA tax - people who are fiscally responsible, who understand good public policy, would not vote to repeal the way the government is paid for, the progressive income tax.

I understand that some children think that getting rid of taxes makes free money and government function without any money.

I'll need to go back and read the notes on the founders intention when they discussed the income tax section.







oh wait...
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
141
106
Originally posted by: lupi
Originally posted by: Craig234


Right, and John Kennedy should not have pushed civil rights more than the polling said the public already agreed with. You are expressing support for bigotry.
Yeah, just label them and make their position meaningless. Just too bad with these passing votes the number of states with such laws is now creeping close to 40. But I thought the national amendment was bad and the right thing was letting states decide the matter, isn't that what's going on.

As for the MA tax - people who are fiscally responsible, who understand good public policy, would not vote to repeal the way the government is paid for, the progressive income tax.

I understand that some children think that getting rid of taxes makes free money and government function without any money.

I'll need to go back and read the notes on the founders intention when they discussed the income tax section.







oh wait...
Welcome back lupi, haven't seen you in awhile.
 

DangerAardvark

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2004
7,581
0
0
The outcome of prop 8 was fucking disgraceful, as is both presidential candidates stances on gay marriage. And what's the common thread here? God hates fags. That's what the anti-gay marriage debate boils down to, and it's a shame to see that even Obama, who voted down the line in support for gay rights, still will not support gay marriage. And what's stopping him? Jesus.

And banning gay adoptions? How fucking pathetic do you have to be as a human being to prefer that a child be shuffled through the foster care system rather than be adopted by a same-sex couple? Sadistic pricks.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
The outcome of prop 8 was fucking disgraceful,
+1

as is both presidential candidates stances on gay marriage. And what's the common thread here? God hates fags. That's what the anti-gay marriage debate boils down to, and it's a shame to see that even Obama, who voted down the line in support for gay rights, still will not support gay marriage. And what's stopping him? Jesus.

And banning gay adoptions? How fucking pathetic do you have to be as a human being to prefer that a child be shuffled through the foster care system rather than be adopted by a same-sex couple? Sadistic pricks.
Obama did oppose Prop 8, to his credit, as did our Republican governor, his wife Maria Shriver (-Kennedy), and of course our two democratic Senators.

The state GOP had a priority of passing prop 8. The Republicans in California's party leadership are especially bad (not the typical voter, the party officials).

In particular, the Mormon Church poured $25M in to our state on this.

I'm now an opponent politically of the Mormon church, overall (not the religion, the political institution), with exceptions for any legitimate charity work they do.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,773
11
81
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
The outcome of prop 8 was fucking disgraceful, as is both presidential candidates stances on gay marriage. And what's the common thread here? God hates fags. That's what the anti-gay marriage debate boils down to, and it's a shame to see that even Obama, who voted down the line in support for gay rights, still will not support gay marriage. And what's stopping him? Jesus.

And banning gay adoptions? How fucking pathetic do you have to be as a human being to prefer that a child be shuffled through the foster care system rather than be adopted by a same-sex couple? Sadistic pricks.
I think if the movement changed its tone towards "civil unions" it would feel less like an attack on the "Christian" institution of marriage.

This is what many countries in Europe did, and in the end, gays got the rights they wanted.

 

whylaff

Senior member
Oct 31, 2007
200
0
0
This so weird.... Where have I heard the argument about God not wanting something to happen, especially in regards to marriage and civil rights? Oh. Now I remember.

?Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, Malay and red, and He placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with His arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that He separated the races shows that He did not intend for the races to mix.?

-Opinion of Leon Bazile, Virginia trial judge, in the case against Mildred Jeter and Richard Loving - 1959.

The religious argument against gay marriage is fundamentally skewed.
looking at the interracial marriage issue - I don?t believe God changed his intentions via internal memo one day, obviously the mindset of individuals, along with their interpretation of God through their religion has changed.

What is truly sad?that someone actually has to point out how ironic yesterday was for civil rights with these outcomes.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,676
1,891
126
Saying that the country has not swung left by looking at a one time ballot initiative doesn't make sense.
I think the ballot initiatives across the nation don't tell a compelling story...much of the nation, even in blue states, is still socially conservative.

As for fiscal ideology, the CA ballot initiatives are somewhat telling...quite a few tell the story of an electorate seeking fiscal responsibility from the government.
 

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