Have you ever created a music CD insert with lyrics? How?

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
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Obviously, this can be and is done. There are quick and dirty ways but I'd prefer something that doesn't fall apart, etc.

I just bought a bunch of Rush CDs, most of them from their first 20+ years. They are all in standard CD cases. I guess most include lyrics in the inserts, but I'm listening to the first (Rush, 1974), and it doesn't include lyrics. I went to Rush's website and copied the lyrics to the 8 songs. I'd like to fashion a custom insert to add to or replace the one in the case.

I don't care about graphics for this, but maybe I will with some. Mostly it's just that I want to have access to the lyrics in print. Have you done something like this? What's a good, easy, effective way to do this?

My equipment:

Windows 10 laptops
B&W Brother duplexing laser printer (HL-5470dw)
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Never did this, but if you know the size you want it to be, you could probably do something simple in PowerPoint.

Set the slide size to be the size you want each page to be to help with font size and placement, then each slide is a page. From there, you could probably export it to a PDF and do some form of booklet printing so you get all 4-8 "pages" on one sheet that you can them fold.

Or do it as 2 slides (assuming a fold where you have inside/outside from a single piece of paper), with one being the inside, and one being the outside.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,253
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I don't have PowerPoint or any of that MS stuff. I have the opensource stuff, though, Open Office.

What I figure I could use is PageMaker 6.5. It's 16 bit, which is a bitch. I can only use it with my 32 bit 14" Lenovo T60 laptop, which I retain just for running 16bit software. I take it out of suspend once in a while, usually to use PageMaker. I think Indesign can import those PageMaker 6.5 documents but it's expensive and AFAIK it's by subscription with yearly cost. Feh! There may be a more convenient workaround for using all my PM documents, but I haven't found one. I bought PageMaker 5.0, then 6.5 (they were both 16bit) when I studied desktop publishing in the 90's at a city college, so got student rates.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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I don't have PowerPoint or any of that MS stuff. I have the opensource stuff, though, Open Office.

What I figure I could use is PageMaker 6.5. It's 16 bit, which is a bitch. I can only use it with my 32 bit 14" Lenovo T60 laptop, which I retain just for running 16bit software. I take it out of suspend once in a while, usually to use PageMaker. I think Indesign can import those PageMaker 6.5 documents but it's expensive and AFAIK it's by subscription with yearly cost. Feh! There may be a more convenient workaround for using all my PM documents, but I haven't found one. I bought PageMaker 5.0, then 6.5 (they were both 16bit) when I studied desktop publishing in the 90's at a city college, so got student rates.
You could use any free slide making software to do this - Google Slides, Open Office... Doesn't need to be PowerPoint. The principles would still be the same. Just trying to give an idea for the most straightforward and simple solution.

You could probably also do it in Illustrator (and definitely InDesign - we use that to make our flyers and booklets for clients when those projects arise), but those cost money...
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
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I have a couple template files in Word that I could send you, one for the insert and one for the back (tray). They fit a standard jewel case. Open Office should be able to read them. I don't know if it would mess up the layout though. Most things translate well from Word to Open Office but not everything.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,253
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I have a couple template files in Word that I could send you, one for the insert and one for the back (tray). They fit a standard jewel case. Open Office should be able to read them. I don't know if it would mess up the layout though. Most things translate well from Word to Open Office but not everything.
PM your way. Thanks!
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
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I didn't know what to do with the templates. Wrestled with PageMaker, after resetting my NAS and rebooting my 32bit Win10 machine it began behaving again. Took maybe 90 minutes but came up with acceptable lyric sheet, 4 songs on a side of slightly trimmed standard printing paper:

Rush (1974) lyrics 1.jpgRush (1974) lyrics 2.jpg
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,253
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Yeah, I saw that. Well, PageMaker 6.5 is intensely usable and accurate. You can do exactly what you want with it. It was used to create magazines, the pro stuff, and I have one issue of a full size magazine style creation that went to completion and printing on my resume. The problem (as I see it) with using PM6.5 these days is needing to use a 32bit OS. It's quite possible that Adobe neglected to create a 32bit version in order to force desktop publishing professionals to "upgrade" to their subscription only ($$$ generating!) Indesign software. I have hundreds of PM6.5 documents saved on my NAS. I'm not going to fork over $$ to Adobe yearly for Indesign.

I created a lyric sheet for the first 2 Rush albums the last couple days, the 2nd much easier than the first. An issue is the lyrics at Rush's website aren't exactly accurate, the singer bolts around, utters a few things not on the sheet, doesn't sing some other stuff. I might alter the lyrics accordingly. Don't know how far I want to take this for Rush. Anyway, I have templates (that I created) to make other lyric sheets in the future should I want to.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,253
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I used to use SureThing when I'd print DVDs and jewel case inserts.
Thanks for the tip!

Which of the editions?

Standard
Deluxe
Gold


I'm wondering if this is worth it to me, and if so, which edition would satisfy my usage needs.

Right now, I can use pagemaker 6.5, but I need to use my Win10 32 bit machine and generally mess with the formatting some to accommodate the specific text I want to use. I did the basic work already, so it's easier now, but it's not very "automatic."
 

dlerious

Golden Member
Mar 4, 2004
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Thanks for the tip!

Which of the editions?

Standard
Deluxe
Gold


I'm wondering if this is worth it to me, and if so, which edition would satisfy my usage needs.

Right now, I can use pagemaker 6.5, but I need to use my Win10 32 bit machine and generally mess with the formatting some to accommodate the specific text I want to use. I did the basic work already, so it's easier now, but it's not very "automatic."
It's probably been 7 years or more, I believe it was probably the top version (Deluxe) at the time - used different labels. There's a comparison here. https://www.surething.com/disclabeler/software/compare
 
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bigboxes

Lifer
Apr 6, 2002
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I used to use PageMaker, but that was 25 years ago. Wow. I have the last Adobe CS 6 stand alone that didn't require a subscription so I have InDesign. Note: I just went and looked at my copy of Rush's first album on vinyl and CD. No lyrics. Rarely play CDs any longer. I went all-digital some years back and can access my home server for that. I did get a new turntable this last April and I have been purchasing new vinyl again. As for the lyrics, that first album was before Neil Peart's arrival. The lyrics are pretty simple and easily searched on Google.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,253
7,975
136
I used to use PageMaker, but that was 25 years ago. Wow. I have the last Adobe CS 6 stand alone that didn't require a subscription so I have InDesign. Note: I just went and looked at my copy of Rush's first album on vinyl and CD. No lyrics. Rarely play CDs any longer. I went all-digital some years back and can access my home server for that. I did get a new turntable this last April and I have been purchasing new vinyl again. As for the lyrics, that first album was before Neil Peart's arrival. The lyrics are pretty simple and easily searched on Google.
The lyrics are at Rush's website, but not entirely accurate, is what I saw for the 2 or so albums I looked up.

So, it's sort of possible to have a version of InDesign that doesn't require a subscription? I should see if I can buy a copy somehow just so I can use my .p65 files on a 64bit machine. I have never seen InDesign but I suppose it bears some reasonable similarity to PageMaker.

I'm really curious. How do you manage with digital only music? I have a fair amount of vinyl and easily 3x as much in CD's. People have told me I should burn to flac files. I have a NAS. I just don't know how I could access music conveniently if it was in files on my server. I have 301 disc supporting CD players. They support daisy chaining, so I have 2 stacked in my bedroom and 2 others stacked in my kitchen. Those players support CD Text, so I copy almost all my CDs to CDR's with CD Text of my choosing. If the original disks have CD Text on them, I use that but generally edit some, e.g. the disc title, or very often I rewrite the song titles to display information I want available while I'm listening to the specific track it refers to. Of course, I can only listen to these in my bedroom or kitchen. How to set up a system I really like using flac files is something I don't know. In fact, I don't know if it's possible to have one I like as much as what I'm doing. The problem with the 301 CD players is I run out of slots. Also, changing what discs are in the players, or changing their positions presents difficulties. I have to keep current data. I print reports.
 
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bigboxes

Lifer
Apr 6, 2002
38,322
11,908
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The lyrics are at Rush's website, but not entirely accurate, is what I saw for the 2 or so albums I looked up.

So, it's sort of possible to have a version of InDesign that doesn't require a subscription? I should see if I can buy a copy somehow just so I can use my .p65 files on a 64bit machine. I have never seen InDesign but I suppose it bears some reasonable similarity to PageMaker.

I'm really curious. How do you mange with digital only music? I have a fair amount of vinyl and easily 3x as much in CD's. People have told me I should burn to flac files. I have a NAS. I just don't know how I could access music conveniently if it was in files on my server. I have 301 disc supporting CD players. They support daisy chaining, so I have 2 stacked in my bedroom and 2 others stacked in my kitchen. Those players support CD Text, so I copy almost all my CDs to CDR's with CD Text of my choosing. If the original disks have CD Text on them, I use that but generally edit some, e.g. the disc title, or very often I rewrite the song titles to display information I want available while I'm listening to the specific track it refers to. Of course, I can only listen to these in my bedroom or kitchen. How to set up a system I really like using flac files is something I don't know. In fact, I don't know if it's possible to have one I like as much as what I'm doing. The problem with the 301 CD players is I run out of slots. Also, changing what discs are in the players, or changing their positions presents difficulties. I have to keep current data. I print reports.
Sorry about that. CS 6 was the last time you could purchase stand alone (2012). Not sure if you can find a copy today.

As for sharing, I run a Plex Server on my home server. It runs 24/7. You can also run Plex Server on your NAS. I connect with it via a Plex Client. They support Windows, Linux, Android, Mac, iOS, Roku, FireTV, etc. When I'm in my car, I just connect to the Plex Server to the Plex Client app on my smartphone. Then, connect to my Alpine in my car via bluetooth. As long as I have connectivity and bandwidth, I can play my media on the go and to any of my supported devices. I have three PCs on my home network, 3 x FireTV devices (hooked up to TVs) and phones. My server hosts movies, tv shows, music, cartoons, sports and personal files. There are free software out there, but Plex makes it easy and seemless. I paid for a lifetime pass a long time ago. There are options to fit your budget. You can check out PLEX here. I believe they have a ton of streaming stations (600+). Learn about the difference between Free vs Paid Plex here. You'll can try much of it out for free and see if you want the paid features or not. I just found it to be of value and with the Lifetime pass there is unlimited device downloads.

As for the server, I've been collecting media for 20+ years. I've ripped all my CDs to MP3 years ago. You can rip your music to FLAC (lossless) if you'd like. Plex supports that. Anyways, it's a rabbit hole to explore if you'd like and have the time. After all, most of us are techies here. Plex is easier than the free software that is out there.

I also map the drives in my server to my computers and then just play the files like they're local. (I still use Winamp and VLC) Windows doesn't make that very easy any longer. I think I had to enable SMP. Evidently, that is a security issue and Windows 10 and newer do not natively support that. There are workarounds. I know that you can share files over your home network in other ways. Like I said, rabbit hole. Have fun!
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
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LoL 301 CDs should fit on your phone even if you encode it all in flac.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
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Lol 301 CDs should fit on your phone even if you encode it all in flac.
You're saying I can rip 301 CDs to flac and the data will reside entirely on my phone, i.e. the card?

But can I access the CD Text? That's just the track titles that I create myself either from scratch or modifying what's on the original CD.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
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You're saying I can rip 301 CDs to flac and the data will reside entirely on my phone, i.e. the card?

But can I access the CD Text? That's just the track titles that I create myself either from scratch or modifying what's on the original CD.
That info can be fetched by EAC when ripping and encoded into the FLAC as MP3Tag.




I like Foobar2000 on my phone, you of course can choose your poison.

the 1998 remaster of this album is 380MB in FLAC.


The biggest issue is picking what to play. I carry 135GB of FLAC on my phone.
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
94,390
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126
Sorry about that. CS 6 was the last time you could purchase stand alone (2012). Not sure if you can find a copy today.

As for sharing, I run a Plex Server on my home server. It runs 24/7. You can also run Plex Server on your NAS. I connect with it via a Plex Client. They support Windows, Linux, Android, Mac, iOS, Roku, FireTV, etc. When I'm in my car, I just connect to the Plex Server to the Plex Client app on my smartphone. Then, connect to my Alpine in my car via bluetooth. As long as I have connectivity and bandwidth, I can play my media on the go and to any of my supported devices. I have three PCs on my home network, 3 x FireTV devices (hooked up to TVs) and phones. My server hosts movies, tv shows, music, cartoons, sports and personal files. There are free software out there, but Plex makes it easy and seemless. I paid for a lifetime pass a long time ago. There are options to fit your budget. You can check out PLEX here. I believe they have a ton of streaming stations (600+). Learn about the difference between Free vs Paid Plex here. You'll can try much of it out for free and see if you want the paid features or not. I just found it to be of value and with the Lifetime pass there is unlimited device downloads.

As for the server, I've been collecting media for 20+ years. I've ripped all my CDs to MP3 years ago. You can rip your music to FLAC (lossless) if you'd like. Plex supports that. Anyways, it's a rabbit hole to explore if you'd like and have the time. After all, most of us are techies here. Plex is easier than the free software that is out there.

I also map the drives in my server to my computers and then just play the files like they're local. (I still use Winamp and VLC) Windows doesn't make that very easy any longer. I think I had to enable SMP. Evidently, that is a security issue and Windows 10 and newer do not natively support that. There are workarounds. I know that you can share files over your home network in other ways. Like I said, rabbit hole. Have fun!


I don't put my music on PLEX because it generates a gazillion files for each song. Not too much of an issue for movies and tv, but music it becomes crazy amount of files.


I just use Foobar2000 (32bit) DLNA for home music serving. There is no 64bit DLNA server component so 32bit it is.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,253
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136
That info can be fetched by EAC when ripping and encoded into the FLAC as MP3Tag.




I like Foobar2000 on my phone, you of course can choose your poison.

the 1998 remaster of this album is 380MB in FLAC.


The biggest issue is picking what to play. I carry 135GB of FLAC on my phone.
"The biggest issue is picking what to play. I carry 135GB of FLAC on my phone."

I deal with that issue by printing out reports. I have two reports, one sorting all discs in both the daisy chained 301 CD players in alphabetical order, the other sorts the discs by slot number. Thus I can find any particular disc I want (artist or composer or whatever I chose to have as the alpha searchable value for a particular CD), or I can use the slot order report to see what slots are open if I want to insert a new disc. Of course, any time I make a change to what's in the players the reports immediately become obsolete in some fashion. I scribble the change on one of the reports and at some future time I enter the scribbled info into the data that I use to generate the reports. Once in a while I print the latest version of the reports, typically once every maybe 6 months, just when I feel it's time (like now!).

If I could develop a system that lets me see what's playing in terms of album info and track specific info with reasonable convenience, that would be great. Right now, I'm listening through speakers when I play CDs. I don't have a means worked out where I can listen through headphones on the go. I have bluetooth ear buds but don't use them. I use earbuds connected by cord to my android phones, but that's used for MP3s exclusively. I don't have anything set up for playing MP3s on my NAS directly to my android phones.
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
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You don't need a report, just load up a bunch of albums on your phone, install foobar2000 and use it and you'll see what I mean. What I meant was it's a big list of albums and deciding what I am in the mood for is the tricky part.

Main interface

Screenshot_20240214-053027.png


Playing music. The cd cover is an image that will display if it is in the folder.
Screenshot_20240214-053253.png


Depending on which NAS you have, there are media server options you can use that you can stream to your phone. Or get a big microsd card and carry you music.
 
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Muse

Lifer
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I LOVE Artur Rubinstein playing Chopin. Very high art! I have an LP of him playing Chopin waltzes that has been in the family for around 60 years! I really love the polonaises too.

I will look into these things. I tried Foobar before, long time ago, on a PC. I'm going to try Foobar2000 now on Android.

I've been using a freebie that's ad-free on Android, Musicolet:

This app is phenomenal. Not only does it have Easy Playlist creating/editing, in depth EQ and a clean UI, It's the only free music app I've found with NO ADS.
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
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Foobar has no ads either. It has replaygain scanner so that the volume is normalised across the entire collection, once it finishes analyzing.

There are tons of free apps, key is find one you like.
 

dlerious

Golden Member
Mar 4, 2004
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I've been using foobar since it came out on my computer. I have it on my phone, but I usually use one of my DAPs when outside. Started with EAC when registration was sending him a postcard. I'll have to check if there's a setting to limit files in plex - I have over 7000 albums I was going to add (don't need lyrics, maybe cover art)
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
94,390
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I've been using foobar since it came out on my computer. I have it on my phone, but I usually use one of my DAPs when outside. Started with EAC when registration was sending him a postcard. I'll have to check if there's a setting to limit files in plex - I have over 7000 albums I was going to add (don't need lyrics, maybe cover art)
No, there is no way to limit it since it's the metadata xmls. I haven't looked at the updated music component, maybe making it depend on the metadata encoded into the file will stop it from generating the xml files. I think each music file has like a dozen xml files. Just throw foobar2000 on the same server you are running plex from and install the DLNA server component and call it a day.

Here is a cautionalty tale


this is what plex says about music


Since each file takes at least one block, that is a lot of blocks being taken by tiny files. Default block size is 4kb for most file systems. That adds up quickly.
 
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