Have you discovered the amazing IQ of Supersampling AA (ATI 5000 series)

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gamechld

Junior Member
May 19, 2010
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Welcome to the forums.

At that resolution, you need to keep anti aliasing filtering down to a minimum if you want to maintain playable frame rates. I would opt for 4x MSAA, which I would then drop down to 2x Temporal AA (if the game supports it), and finally 2x MSAA. Always try to use in-game MSAA settings rather than CCC, except for Temporal AA.

I would also enable performance Adaptive AA in the driver. It will not give you much of a quality improvement, but it doesn't give much of a performance hit either, so use it when you can (remember that it only works in DX9 right now). Same thing with Gamma correction.

As far as other settings go, I like my texture filtering settings to be all at the highest quality, I believe it's called MipMap in CCC, no optimizations, 16x AF. I force those settings globally, the performance hit from higher quality texture filtering is minimal and the quality improvement is huge.

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it! However, one additional setting I would like to ask about is the AA filter (Box, Narrow Tent, Wide Tent, Edge Detect). Are any of those at a clear advantage over the others, or is it a fairly linear trade off between performance and IQ as you progress down the line?

Also, when you say "no optimizations" does that refer to Catalyst AI? If not, I ask if anyone has input on what Catalyst AI does and if it has any positive or negative impact.

Thanks again!

edit: Upon further research, it seems that it is a setting which tries to intelligently decide what textures to filter less or not at all to provide additional performance boost, though people have trouble telling if it actually does anything at all.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
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However good down sampling involves interpolation, you're just a stubborn kid who won't admit he's got his terms mixed up. And with that, I'm done replying to this thread.


LOL, coming from your mouth! Look, I used the easiest and most concise examples because they are simple. The examples I used previously clearly point out what the terms you are confusing actually means. However, you want to throw in more terms with more erroneous definitions as if muddying the waters with extra terms makes it seem as if you are right.

Here is what all the terms and definitions really mean from your previous post. Refute if you can, but you are just going to come across like a bigger idiot if you do.

Sampling is to take a measured set of data points. How you get your set of data is more of technique, but the data itself is the sample. So a set of numbers like: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 is a sample. The sample can be the whole thing, IE you measured everything that can be measured, or it can a subset. For example, the numbers 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 are all the odd integers from 1 to 10. That sample is the complete measurement because it didn't miss a data point. However, it is a smaller set of numbers if one is capturing odd numbers from 1 to 100.

Sub sampling:
Taking a sub set of sample numbers from a previous sample set. This is one form of down scaling, that can be done. Meaning, that there are many ways to damn scaling or down sample, but sub sampling is ALWAYS down scaling/sampling. Here is the simplest mathematical example of sub sampling. Take the previous example of odd numbers from 1 to 10. Lets find the prime numbers from that sample.

Sample set of:
1, 3, 5, 7, 9

becomes
3, 5, 7

The 3, 5, 7 is a sub set of the previous set. It made by taking a smaller sample of data points from the previous set. Thus it is SUB SAMPLING. The fact that the sub sampling was derived by taking prime numbers is the technique for the sub sampling in this example.



Super Sampling does not apply to mathematics in the pure sense unless you want to count matrix math. It is used solely for image purposes as an anti aliasing technique. It is a form of interpolation as it relates to images to add or insert data points into the current sample size.




Again, I am going by very strict definitions here, which you are wanting to fudge around with. This is what causes tons of confusion because people like to mix terms as you are doing Jag87.

Interpolation is not the same thing as down sampling or down scaling. Now in process that is meant to both down scale an image and still have good image quality, interpolation can happen AFTER the down scaling. My example in the previous post illustrates just that. However, one can down sample an image without using interpolation to reach a sample set.

This is because the terms are technically the exact opposite has I have shown and proven in very concise and easy to understand examples. Anyone can read wikipedia or merriam-webster definitions of all the terms to see that what I have typed is correct and what you typed was incorrect.

You are applying a broad term technique of what say NVidia does in terms of anti-aliasing "algorithms" and saying flatly that it is all "interpolation." This in incorrect because as stated, it is algorithm(S), as in plural. As in the fact that many things typically go on which can include interpolation.
 
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gamechld

Junior Member
May 19, 2010
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Super Sampling does not apply to mathematics in the pure sense unless you want to count matrix math. It is used solely for image purposes as an anti aliasing technique. It is a form of interpolation as it relates to images to add or insert data points into the current sample size.

I don't mean to intrude in the discussion, but based on everything you've said thus far and what I have managed to understand of it, Super Sampling did not sound like interpolation to me. Isn't it a case of the game producing a twice large or larger image, which gives you a larger original data set, and then down scaling that extra large set into a usable size set?

Then again, I don't really know anything, I'm just trying to follow along a discussion that is a bit over my head :) Perhaps there are different ways to do Super Sampling. ATI's current method is supposedly what I have said; rendering a higher resolution image, and then down scaling it to the appropriate size.
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
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Thanks for the response, I appreciate it! However, one additional setting I would like to ask about is the AA filter (Box, Narrow Tent, Wide Tent, Edge Detect). Are any of those at a clear advantage over the others, or is it a fairly linear trade off between performance and IQ as you progress down the line?

Also, when you say "no optimizations" does that refer to Catalyst AI? If not, I ask if anyone has input on what Catalyst AI does and if it has any positive or negative impact.

Thanks again!

edit: Upon further research, it seems that it is a setting which tries to intelligently decide what textures to filter less or not at all to provide additional performance boost, though people have trouble telling if it actually does anything at all.


I was actually referring to nvidia settings, which are trilinear and anisotropic optimizations, which are meant to boost performance at the cost of texture filtering quality. I am not sure what the CCC equivalent is, but I would imagine it is a combination of the mipmap detail and the Catalyst AI. I've read that the AI is very important when running Crossfire, but even with a single card it enables game specific compatibility flags made by ATI, so I would keep that on.

With regards to AA, box is the standard MSAA, narrow wide and edge detect have a significant frame rate hit, too much for your resolution imo. You can read a lot more about these modes here:

http://www.elitebastards.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=443&Itemid=29&limitstart=1

In your scenario I would use 4x MSAA (box), drop to 2x Temporal if you want more fps (and if the game supports it), drop to 2x MSAA if you want more fps, or disable AA all together. I would also turn off Adaptive AA (transparency) before you resort to dropping AA levels. Edge AA is more important than transparencies.


bla bla bla


I'm not going to argue anymore with you. Interpolation doesn't have to be the process of adding new estimated points to a set, but simply creating new estimated points from a set. When were talking about images (such as in this thread) to down sample properly you have to interpolate, and that's what causes blurring. That's it, if you can't understand then god help you.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
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I don't mean to intrude in the discussion, but based on everything you've said thus far and what I have managed to understand of it, Super Sampling did not sound like interpolation to me. Isn't it a case of the game producing a twice large or larger image, which gives you a larger original data set, and then down scaling that extra large set into a usable size set?

Then again, I don't really know anything, I'm just trying to follow along a discussion that is a bit over my head :) Perhaps there are different ways to do Super Sampling. ATI's current method is supposedly what I have said; rendering a higher resolution image, and then down scaling it to the appropriate size.

Super sampling can be interpolation and can not be. Interpolation is using an algorithm to generate more data points. But you can always just measure out more points as well. Take one of my previous examples. The odd numbers from 1 to 10 are 1, 3, 5, 7, 9. We have that set. But now we want to get odd numbers from 1 to 100. You can generate a formula to compute this, and this would be interpolating. Or you can just count, er measure, it out the same way you got the original data set. This is a slightly loose interpretation, because Super Sampling is not a mathematical or statistical term. It's an imaging term. So I am shoe horn-ing the definition into one of my previous examples.


The purpose of my posts was to clear up the terms people were throwing out like candy and getting flat out wrong. Personally, if I didn't already know the exact definitions, it would confuse the hell out of me with people throwing out all these "buzz word" terms without definitions and fighting over the exact technique/definitional meaning of those terms.




However, if I was to venture a guess, there is many ways to super sample. Remember, super sampling is just getting a larger data set from a previous set. Here are some ways I can think of off the top of my head.

1) You are trying to display a 100x100 data set but can receive data from 100x100 to 1000x1000. If you want to super sample, just ask for more data. This is the same as just taking a bigger measurement.

2) Like the previous example, but instead of asking 1000x1000, you instead take the 100x100 sample and use an algorithm to generate a 1000x1000 based on the current data set already received. This is interpolation.

3) Just duplicate the previous set. This is super sampling, but instead of a single matrix you get more. For example you can have four 100x100 data sets to work with.



Those 3 are all different ways to "super sample" a data set of 100x100. Taking a bigger measurement, using an interpolation formula, or just duplicating are valid examples of super sampling.

Now, that you have a super sampled set, how you get those those numbers back to a 100x100 set to be displayed is done by different types of down sampling.

Also, keep in mind when it comes to image quality, there are sometimes many things done all at once and multiple times. Remember I am just using generics here and am not giving specifics on what video cards do exactly for their methods of anti-aliasing to get a finished image.
 

gamechld

Junior Member
May 19, 2010
5
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^I gotcha.

Separate question for anyone who knows a definitive answer. I read in the CCC Help File that ATI's SuperSampling will only utilize 2 GPU's, regardless of how many GPU's are present in the configuration. I assume this would mean that if I got a second 5970 sometime down the road (having a total of 4 GPU's) this would not make any difference in performance with SuperSampling. Can anyone confirm this?
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
3,921
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Super sampling can be interpolation and can not be. Interpolation is using an algorithm to generate more data points. But you can always just measure out more points as well. Take one of my previous examples. The odd numbers from 1 to 10 are 1, 3, 5, 7, 9. We have that set. But now we want to get odd numbers from 1 to 100. You can generate a formula to compute this, and this would be interpolating. Or you can just count, er measure, it out the same way you got the original data set. This is a slightly loose interpretation, because Super Sampling is not a mathematical or statistical term. It's an imaging term. So I am shoe horn-ing the definition into one of my previous examples.


The purpose of my posts was to clear up the terms people were throwing out like candy and getting flat out wrong. Personally, if I didn't already know the exact definitions, it would confuse the hell out of me with people throwing out all these "buzz word" terms without definitions and fighting over the exact technique/definitional meaning of those terms.




However, if I was to venture a guess, there is many ways to super sample. Remember, super sampling is just getting a larger data set from a previous set. Here are some ways I can think of off the top of my head.

1) You are trying to display a 100x100 data set but can receive data from 100x100 to 1000x1000. If you want to super sample, just ask for more data. This is the same as just taking a bigger measurement.

2) Like the previous example, but instead of asking 1000x1000, you instead take the 100x100 sample and use an algorithm to generate a 1000x1000 based on the current data set already received. This is interpolation.

3) Just duplicate the previous set. This is super sampling, but instead of a single matrix you get more. For example you can have four 100x100 data sets to work with.



Those 3 are all different ways to "super sample" a data set of 100x100. Taking a bigger measurement, using an interpolation formula, or just duplicating are valid examples of super sampling.

Now, that you have a super sampled set, how you get those those numbers back to a 100x100 set to be displayed is done by different types of down sampling.

Also, keep in mind when it comes to image quality, there are sometimes many things done all at once and multiple times. Remember I am just using generics here and am not giving specifics on what video cards do exactly for their methods of anti-aliasing to get a finished image.


Almost completely wrong. There is only one way to super sample, and that is method #1 you listed. Method #2 will not produce a better image but rather deteriorate it when brought back to display resolution, and therefore will never be used in in pre-processing an image. Method #2 is only used in post-processing, when you actually have to display the higher resolution (such as when going from 720p to 1080p) or, when you want enlarge the image and reduce aliasing. Method #3 is produces brutal results so it's never used unless speed is a huge constraint. It's what Windows Photo Viewer does when you scroll your mouse to zoom a picture.

Can you stop trying please.


^I gotcha.

Separate question for anyone who knows a definitive answer. I read in the CCC Help File that ATI's SuperSampling will only utilize 2 GPU's, regardless of how many GPU's are present in the configuration. I assume this would mean that if I got a second 5970 sometime down the road (having a total of 4 GPU's) this would not make any difference in performance with SuperSampling. Can anyone confirm this?


I can't confirm this, but I can tell you it is completely irrelevant at your resolution. You will never be able to do super sampling. As a matter of fact, only DX11 can super sample at your resolution, DX9 and 10 have pixel height and width limitations.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
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Jag87, that is why I put super sampling as a term that only really applies to video processing. It is not a term at all for statistics of mathematics. The other terms are though and you've been using those terms wrong.

However, the technical definitions of the three examples I used are correct. I wasn't going into implementation and affects of each. Don't say what I typed is "Almost completely wrong" because it is not. I didn't put what I did in context of image quality, but by math standards what I typed is absolutely correct.
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
3,921
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Jag87, that is why I put super sampling as a term that only really applies to video processing. It is not a term at all for statistics of mathematics. The other terms are though and you've been using those terms wrong.

However, the technical definitions of the three examples I used are correct. I wasn't going into implementation and affects of each. Don't say what I typed is "Almost completely wrong" because it is not. I didn't put what I did in context of image quality, but by math standards what I typed is absolutely correct.


I don't understand, is this the highly technical section or the video section?

In video and image processing, interpolation happens both when you scale up and when you scale down an image. You are creating new data from a known set of data.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersampling

See that picture to the right? That's called interpolation. And it happens when you supersample, and it's why things blur and you lose detail. That's what this thread was about before you derailed it.

Are we done?
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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In video and image processing, interpolation happens both when you scale up and when you scale down an image. You are creating new data from a known set of data.
Using your definition, all forms of AA and filtering are interpolation then, including MSAA and AF.

See that picture to the right? That's called interpolation.
Again, the same applies to AF and MSAA. Are you claiming MSAA and AF are interpolation as well?
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
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Using your definition, all forms of AA and filtering are interpolation then, including MSAA and AF.


Again, the same applies to AF and MSAA. Are you claiming MSAA and AF are interpolation as well?


That's correct, although it happens at a much earlier stage than with super sampling.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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That's correct, although it happens at a much earlier stage than with super sampling.
Your definitions are wrong then, plain and simple. You're confusing the terms "interpolation" with "sampling", and multiple people have pointed out that your usage of these terms not accurate. No amount of linking to Wikipedia on your part will change that.

Furthermore you also claimed that because SSAA is “interpolation”, that's why it blurs the image. Since you've now admitted you classify AF as interpolation, your inference doesn’t compute because AF sharpens images, not blurs them.

Additionally, you still don’t seem to grasp the notion that RGSS and SGSS do not involve any down-sampling, despite this having been repeatedly explained to you in the past.
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
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Your definitions are wrong then, plain and simple. You're confusing the terms "interpolation" with "sampling", and multiple people have pointed out that your usage of these terms not accurate. No amount of linking to Wikipedia on your part will change that.

Furthermore you also claimed that because SSAA is “interpolation”, that's why it blurs the image. Since you've now admitted you classify AF as interpolation, your inference doesn’t compute because AF sharpens images, not blurs them.

Additionally, you still don’t seem to grasp the notion that RGSS and SGSS do not involve any down-sampling, despite this having been repeatedly explained to you in the past.


Trilinear filtering

Trilinear filtering is a remedy to a common artifact seen in mipmapped bilinearly filtered images: an abrupt and very noticeable change in quality at boundaries where the renderer switches from one mipmap level to the next. Trilinear filtering solves this by doing a texture lookup and bilinear filtering on the two closest mipmap levels (one higher and one lower quality), and then linearly interpolating the results. This results in a smooth degradation of texture quality as distance from the viewer increases, rather than a series of sudden drops. Of course, closer than Level 0 there is only one mipmap level available, and the algorithm reverts to bilinear filtering.

Anisotropic filtering

Anisotropic filtering is the highest quality filtering available in current consumer 3D graphics cards. It evolved because both bilinear and trilinear filtering sample a square from the texture, which is only correct if the viewer is looking at the texture head-on. This results in blurriness when the textured surface is at an oblique angle - a very common case is the floor as it recedes into the distance. Anisotropic filtering corrects this by sampling in the correct trapezoid shape according to view angle. The resulting samples are then trilinearly filtered to generate the final color.


Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. When you draw me a picture of how multiple samples of a pixel morph into one pixel on your screen without interpolation, then you win.
 

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
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The first 2 pages of this thread were quite interesting, and then page 3 came and raped my peon brain. I'm so lost now lol....
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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Clearly you don't know what you're talking about.
Sure I do. The interpolation comes from using two adjacent mip-maps; but what's actually happening with the surface filtering is sampling, not interpolation. In fact, if you run bilinear AF you don’t even have to interpolate mip-maps like that.
When you draw me a picture of how multiple samples of a pixel morph into one pixel on your screen without interpolation, then you win.
It’s done by sampling and averaging, but averaging does not imply interpolation.

You claimed because SSAA blurs the image, that implies interpolation. So I’m still waiting for you to explain how you can call AF interpolation given it does the exact opposite.
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
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Sure I do. The interpolation comes from using two adjacent mip-maps; but what's actually happening with the surface filtering is sampling, not interpolation. In fact, if you run bilinear AF you don’t even have to interpolate mip-maps like that.

It’s done by sampling and averaging, but averaging does not imply interpolation.

You claimed because SSAA blurs the image, that implies interpolation. So I’m still waiting for you to explain how you can call AF interpolation given it does the exact opposite.


What you call averaging I call interpolation. When calculating the final color of a pixel from four samples it's not 1+2+3+4/4 = 2.5 That's averaging, and that's not what happens.

The least of what happens is bilinear interpolation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilinear_interpolation

Or bicubic interpolation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicubic_interpolation

Or spline interpolation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spline_interpolation

The latter would literally destroy performance. And I didn't say AF is interpolation. I said it incorporates interpolation. It's all written clearly in my definitions above. What AF adds to trilinear filtering in order to render textures correctly independently from the angle their being viewed, and therefore improve IQ, is:

sampling in the correct trapezoid shape according to view angle.

But after that, interpolation still takes place, so you can say that when Anisotropic Filtering is on, interpolation is happening to a degree. Or averaging as you like to call it, because it is a form of averaging except the formula is far more advanced.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,971
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What you call averaging I call interpolation.
You’re mixing the two quotes and making it sound like I was talking about the same thing in both cases, when I wasn’t.

You stated when you draw me a picture of how multiple samples of a pixel morph into one pixel on your screen without interpolation, then you win.

That’s what my second quote replied to and AF wasn’t mentioned there, so stop setting up strawman arguments.
When calculating the final color of a pixel from four samples it's not 1+2+3+4/4 = 2.5 That's averaging, and that's not what happens.
Uh, in the case of SSAA that’s exactly what happens. You get the mid-point of the colors, so if one is black and the other is white, the result is gray. So if those pixel values were 1, 2, 3 and 4, the final color would be “2.5” (using your terminology).

MSAA does the same except the averaging is calculated from polygon coverage, not from color values.

As for the rest of the stuff, you just keep throwing out more definitions when you’re proven wrong. Perhaps someone else wants to have another go at explaining this to you.
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
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You’re mixing the two quotes and making it sound like I was talking about the same thing in both cases, when I wasn’t.

You stated when you draw me a picture of how multiple samples of a pixel morph into one pixel on your screen without interpolation, then you win.

That’s what my second quote replied to and AF wasn’t mentioned there, so stop setting up strawman arguments.

Uh, in the case of SSAA that’s exactly what happens. You get the mid-point of the colors, so if one is black and the other is white, the result is gray. So if those pixel values were 1, 2, 3 and 4, the final color would be “2.5” (using your terminology).

MSAA does the same except the averaging is calculated from polygon coverage, not from color values.

As for the rest of the stuff, you just keep throwing out more definitions when you’re proven wrong. Perhaps someone else wants to have another go at explaining this to you.


Ok so you say it's just the average (midpoint) of the samples, fine. After all you are down sampling from a 2x or 4x multiple, so it's mathematically possible and ideal. It wouldn't be ideal if the resolution is not an exact multiple, then you have to start taking additional neighboring pixels into account for good down scaling.

But that itself is a form of interpolation. If you are going from a 2x2 pixel matrix down to a single midpoint pixel you are just applying bilinear interpolation, which you call averaging because it's the exact midpoint. But it's not called averaging in digital signal processing. And it causes blurring, which was the whole reason I posted in this thread. That is a proven fact.

Why do you have to be fucking stubborn and unable to take in any new information, you already have the absolute truth and there is nothing for you to learn?
 

extra

Golden Member
Dec 18, 1999
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Why do you have to be fucking stubborn and unable to take in any new information, you already have the absolute truth and there is nothing for you to learn?

Whoahhh there... calm down, lol.

Can we get this back into discussing the AA modes?

I read in this thread that people don't think nvidia's super sampling AA (like if you force it on in nhancer) uses a rotated grid pattern...but nhancer seems to imply that it does? Why is it worse (or better if you think it's better) than ati's supersampling?

I'd also love to know more about edge detect AA...it seems to work GREAT though, that's for sure. And nvidia's CSAA at 32x...a bit confused about the coverage sample thing. . .
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
3,921
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Whoahhh there... calm down, lol.

Can we get this back into discussing the AA modes?

I read in this thread that people don't think nvidia's super sampling AA (like if you force it on in nhancer) uses a rotated grid pattern...but nhancer seems to imply that it does? Why is it worse (or better if you think it's better) than ati's supersampling?

I'd also love to know more about edge detect AA...it seems to work GREAT though, that's for sure. And nvidia's CSAA at 32x...a bit confused about the coverage sample thing. . .


Dude don't worry its just a feud about AA between me and him that will never get resolved because of his nature. He just loves contradicting what I say pretending to be the all knowing god of graphics.

Nvidia's super sampling uses ordered grid, while ATI uses sparse grid. The reason for that is because nvidia never bothered updating super sampling because they don't even officially support SSAA anymore. However the new TRAA bug that came up on the 400 cards, shows nvidia doing sparse grid SSAA, hopefully they still make this type of SSAA available in future drivers.

The difference is that ordered grid renders a bigger matrix and then interpolates (scales) down, which results in a square pattern. This is good at smoothing diagonal edges but not good at all on ground parallel and perpendicular edges. Sparse grid jitters the image at different angles producing different samples of the same image, and then interpolating (averages) a final image. This address aliasing at all angles.

I don't know much about how edge AA works, except that it does work to find every single possible edge and takes into account position and direction before applying creating the sample grid. I know enough not to use it, because the performance hit it brings is massive and it doesn't even address transparency aliasing.

CSAA is very straight forward. MSAA address coverage samples and color samples, CSAA increases the coverage samples giving almost the look of a higher level of MSAA without the memory requirement. So when you have performance to spare, it's always worth using over 4x MSAA, since the performance hit is minimal. You can read about it here: http://developer.nvidia.com/object/coverage-sampled-aa.html
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
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averaging is NOT interpolation. Averaging is a mathematical method to find the average value, using various techniques for different averages, of a set of numbers. Just creating an average is NOT interpolation.

Again, interpolation is inserting new values into a set. Can new numbers be arrived at by using a form of averaging? Most certainly. But if you take a set of numbers and replace the whole set with the average value instead, then you are not interpolating. Here is several examples of interpolating.

Example, take a set of 1, 3, 5, 8.

I interpolate with averages between numbers and get:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.5, 8

I interpolate with zeros and get:
1, 0, 3, 0, 5, 0, 8

I interpolate with max values:

1, 8, 3, 5, 8, 8

I interpolate with another set of 4, 7, 13 and get

1, 4, 3, 7, 5, 13, 8


Do you not recognize this?

If I take a set of 1, 2, 3, and 4 and average it out to 2.5 and use that as a replacement value for the set that is NOT interpolating. That is replacement. Or if I take averages and use it as a new set, it is not interpolating such as 1.5, 2.5, 3.5 as a new set.
 
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