Have you been Born Again?

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: thepd7
I see you didn't comment on my Bible verse.

The verse you quoted is an English translation of the Latin translation of the Greek translation of the perhaps, original Aramaic version of the writings from a series of fallible human authors often writing well after the fact that all came from a group of Semitic tribes 4,000 years ago that purport to be the incontestable word of that concept, "God."

This is my comment.

Actually, the Gospel of John is believed to have been originally written in Greek, and is far and away the least historically accurate of the 4 Gospels. Which is why scholars separate it from the 3 synoptic gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
In particular, it also advocates Greek gnostic view of early Christianity, as opposed to the 1st century Jewish traditions of the other Gospels.

However, it must be understood that the modern American Christian concept of being 'born again' is a creation of the 1820's Bible Belt Revivals.
In proper context with John 3, Jesus told the Pharisee Nicodemus that he needed to be 'born again,' because Nicodemus believed that his salvation was pre-determined because he was born of the seed of Abraham. Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus that that wasn't enough. That salvation was not dependent on one's physical birth, but on one's spiritual understanding.

I was not referring to John 3 rather 14:6 and a different comment than the OP is about but I appreciate your knowledge on this subject.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
Well, in all fairness, I'm an Atheist and I don't know what an Agnostic is. So I'd call you an Atheist too.

Atheist: "There is absolutely no god(s). It is impossible for there to be god(s)."

Agnostic: "There is no proof for god(s), however, it is logically impossible to prove non-existence, therefore the most that can be said is that there is no conclusive evidence to support the existence of god(s). While it is technically possible for god(s) to exist, I do not take a position on the subject."

ZV

Well if you go strictly by that definition, then it's technically impossible for anyone to be an atheist, what with quantum uncertainty this-and-that.
Just like it's "possible" for dragons to pop out of the LHC <-- something which I consider to be far more likely than the existence of God/Allah/Whatever.

That definition also ignores Agnostic Atheism and Agnostic Theism. Most Atheists fall into the Agnostic Atheist category. Some lean more strongly toward Gnostic Atheism than others. My only point was that if you tell me you're an Agnostic, all you've told me is your opinion of knowledge. Claiming lack of sufficient knowledge to be a Theist qualifies as non-belief. If you don't know if you believe, then it's not belief. Non-belief is a default position.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
Well, in all fairness, I'm an Atheist and I don't know what an Agnostic is. So I'd call you an Atheist too.

Atheist: "There is absolutely no god(s). It is impossible for there to be god(s)."

Agnostic: "There is no proof for god(s), however, it is logically impossible to prove non-existence, therefore the most that can be said is that there is no conclusive evidence to support the existence of god(s). While it is technically possible for god(s) to exist, I do not take a position on the subject."

ZV

Well if you go strictly by that definition, then it's technically impossible for anyone to be an atheist, what with quantum uncertainty this-and-that.
Just like it's "possible" for dragons to pop out of the LHC <-- something which I consider to be far more likely than the existence of God/Allah/Whatever.

++ to this.

The strict definition of atheist is used way too often to marginalize atheists and to make them seem like nutcases. Sure, there are some nutcase atheists out there, but most aren't. I don't believe in God. I don't think anyone can prove or disprove his existence, but I don't call myself agnostic because it implies that I'm undecided on the issue. I'm not. I've decided that the chances for God existing (at least in one of the forms as presented in a major religion) are so tiny that they're not worth considering.

Does that make me an atheist or an agnostic? I don't go around saying "God is 100% certain to not exist." I just say, "I don't believe in God because it's extremely unlikely that he exists." Like 99.999% certain. So does that 0.001% chance of God existing make me an agnostic?

That's a point I was about to make myself. Anything COULD exist, but the more holes you poke in it, the less likely it becomes. And I think that if you poke enough holes in an idea, defenders of that idea will end up defending something which doesn't even resemble the original idea. This of course, would not be proof for the non-existence of God, but what it might be proof of is the lack of meaning inherent in the word.

 

[Amused]

I get asked this from time to time.

I just explain to them that I tried to be "born again" but my poor mother exploded.

 

[Wag]

I just say, "I tried getting back in but my mother wouldn't let me".

 

[theMan]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: theman

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: theman

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Just because he is saved, is a missionary, or a pastor does not make him a religious whack job. Think of it this way, it is something we Christians believe and he cares about people and wants you to be saved... or born again.

Believing in being "born again" or "having a personal relationship with Jesus Leroy Christ", who, btw, was a Jew, is NOT something most Chrisitians worldwide believe in at all, it is the primitive, bottom feeding, dog and pony show, dumbed down version of Christianity.

I know Jesus is a Jew... that's common knowledge. Being "born again" is simply having believing on and asking Jesus to save you from your sins.

I guess you're right, not all people who have the title "Christian" believe that. However, it is the most basic and only requirement to be saved and get to Heaven, according to the Bible.

Being a Christian simply means being Christ-like... and everyone has their own definition of what being Christ-like is, and that is an opinion typically formed from religion. I take my definition of Christianity from the Bible, if other people want to take their definition from man made rules and regulations (religion) then so be it.


If most Christians don't believe that (according to you), then what is it they believe?

i don't really understand how Jesus was a Jew. if he was god, why did he have a religion? was he just pretending?

sorry, i have absolutely no understanding of christianity... but i am taking a class in it next year at college. woot.

Jews follow Old Testament law. To have a walk with God you had to follow His laws, Jesus still wanted a walk with His Father, so he followed the Old Testament laws. During His life though, He did away with laws that were no longer needed (which is the reason the Jews hated him and crucified Him), and after His crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension, most of those laws were no longer needed.

Christian's that have an understanding of the Bible will not hate the Jews like you would think they would or should. The Jews, or Israelites, are God's chosen people and because of that they should inherit our respect. They were only fulfilling the prophecy that was required for Gentiles (non-Jews) to get to Heaven.

so Jews are nothing but a tool in God's master plan?

I had no idea anyone could twist that to make it look bad. Everyone has a place in God's plan. However, free will means we can choose what we want. Not all Jewish people believe the same thing.

I have nothing but the highest respect for Jews. How about I twist it this way, if a Jew follows Old Testament law, then I am nothing more than an unclean Gentile to them.

Well they're both true according to your respective beliefs. It's not twisting to say so, just because you'd rather phrase it in a nicer way.

that just shows how those belief systems teach people to think about each other.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: mizzou
listening to people argue about religions makes me want to gag

Just live a simple decent life

I have heard believers sit there and debate their tiny difference in beliefs, get completely angry at each other and then pout because neither won the argument.

I don't define my beliefs by any religious standard but I believe in God and try to live my life by following His will. I have witnessed miracles happen to people who asked God to come into their lives. But I also know that going up to random strangers and preaching won't do anything but put them off. If someone had done that with me, I would have walked away. I do share my experience, strength and hope with people who ask me about it. I was actually sharing my experiences with a lady tonite.

Some would call what has happened to me being born again. I call it a second chance.

Trust God, clean house and help others. If you do those three things, your life can change in ways you can't even imagine.

 

[PrinceofWands]

If everyone who isn't would just hit the people that ask them every time, they'd eventually quit asking. It's just like training a dog not to pee on the carpet. Stupid animals require negative reinforcement to learn.