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Have parent always "Loved" their children?? or is it a recent phenomenon?

L

LeeTJ

Diamond Member
For many people today, I think they believe love is something that is strictly one way. that you don't expect anything back.

for eg. love by parents for children should be exclusively one way. the purpose of the parent is to protect the child at all cost.

has it always been that way??

i'm reading the thread about the 11 yr old girl that was kidnaped and gotten pregnant and is now returning 4 yrs later with 2 children. and the sentiment by many people seems to be that parents should love their children unconditionally.

Has it always been that way?? another way of asking the same question is it that way in other cultures and societies??

It's my contention that the differences in culture today is more of a progressive difference than an absolute difference.

for eg. Most older S. Koreans are really agrarian. they are agrarian in their culture and their thought processes and not very different than the way it was in the US just 170 yrs ago.

For most people living in agrarian societies, children aren't something to be loved or cherished but are assets. this is typical of agrarian thinking. parents in agrarian societies also view children as their retirement, pension and nursing home rolled into one. hence in china parents want at least one son and many times 2 because they have a better chance (in their thinking) of having their son provide for them than a daughter.

in the modern mechanized society, we no longer view our children as assets for the future (well some still do, tennis parents etc) but have placed upon ourselves values that we claim requires us to love our children unconditionally. this is easier the more money you have obviously.

anyway, that's basic simplified theory of what i'm seeing and i'm wondering if anyone else agrees with the premise that Expecting parents to love their children unconditionally is a recent phenomenon and in the past we have seen our children more as assets.
 
Just because someone expects his or her children to help him or her with work, and help him or her out when he or she is old doesn't mean that he or she doesn't love them.
 
notfred, it's "his or her"


Your question is: "has it always been that way??"

Your support: "in other cultures it's not"

My support: "Parental relationships with children are cultural"

Your conclusion: "No"

My conclusion: "Yes"

Universal, no. Always that way in some facet or another, yes.
 
I beleive in general yes. Sure, it has to do with culture, and also with each individual person as well. My mom always told me that there is the tightest bond of unconditional love only shared by a mother and her child. I would hope that would always be the case, but sadly, its not. Just look at the mothers that kill their children.
EDIT: I cannot believe that it is only "one way" I think kids love changes from need to when they are infants, to a different stong love and apperication as they get older.
 
this question is really one with no conclusive answer, i realize this, but i think it is one worth pondering.

for me, love for my children means from the beginning it is my job to push them away. by this i mean, train them towards independence. this requires a parent to allow the relationship between a child and parent to change. this is difficult.

for eg. at infanthood the child is almost totally dependent upon the parents. for everything, but does any parent in their right mind want their child to stay in that state?? no, from infanthood the child as he/she grows up is constantly forced to deal with change and that change is he gets less and less dependent upon his parents.

their can never be true love between a parent and child until the child becomes and adult and mutual respect is shared. sometimes described as an adult - adult relationship.

but this adoration of children. this is outside that definition of love. this comes about in a society where children are not a necessity but a luxury. parents are no longer dependent upon their children to raise a livelihood for them. we don't need many children to plow and to harvest etc as in the agrarian society, a "yuppie" couple can often argue, we are perfectly content as we are, so why have children.

Now we have children out of choice NOT out of necessity, it is a distinction to be made. we start to place those values on others and other cultures. people less fortunate for whom children are not a joy or pleasure but a necessity or a burden.

it would be very interesting i think to go back in history and see how parents treated their children and whether or not our social mores would still apply in the past.
 
I think the verbal expressing of love is what is in fact more of a recent phenomenon
40 or 50 years ago parental love oftentimes was not verbally conveyed 🙁 -stiff upper lip
and spare the rod and spoil the child and all that type of thinking
Nowadays expressing your love for everything and anything is the IN thing.
 
Originally posted by: Infos
I think the verbal expressing of love is what is in fact more of a recent phenomenon
40 or 50 years ago parental love oftentimes was not verbally conveyed 🙁 -stiff upper lip
and spare the rod and spoil the child and all that type of thinking
Nowadays expressing your love for everything and anything is the IN thing.
Click to expand...

that's interesting and i agree with you. but go back 100 years. 150 years. what about 200 years.

still just a difference in expression?? or is it more?
 
Kids are a waste of time and money 🙂.

People should realize that they can have more money by saving and investing what they would spend on a kid, than raising a kid and hoping it can take care of them in there old age.

Also not having kids will save you a lot of headaches and is probably much better for your health.

*GET A DOG* It will listen at least, unlike teenagers 😉

😛
 
Originally posted by: Ciber
Kids are a waste of time and money 🙂.

People should realize that they can have more money by saving and investing what they would spend on a kid, than raising a kid and hoping it can take care of them in there old age.

Also not having kids will save you a lot of headaches and is probably much better for your health.

*GET A DOG* It will listen at least, unlike teenagers 😉

😛
Click to expand...

well that's kind of my point ciber. people no longer have kids out of necessity but because they want to. it's not an investment but an indulgence, hence you have to come up with this "Love" excuse.

in agrarian societies, you WERE better off having kids than trying to "save" money. in agrarian societies Kids WERE a necessity, hence they didn't have to delude themselves with "love".
 
Couple of things:

I view my children as investments (no I'm not asian). They are an investment of my time, energy and money. I would hope that I could get something back, not monetarily, per se, but something viable, if not tangible.

Which leads me to my second point, I do not think I could love my children unconditionally. If my child turned out to be a mass-murderer or serial rapist, even after the investment I made, I do not think I could love him/her. Though I am not religious by nature, I believe some people are born evil, whether it comes biologically or otherwise, and no amount of love, affection, time, energy or money will change that (You can put your whole energies into a business, and it can still fail).

Since every child is different, and there is not one standard in raising every child, you put in what you know, what you can and hope for the best. But, there comes a time when that child ceases being a child and must now start making decision for him/herself. If he decides against the good, and it's egregious enough, it may not be a matter of his upbringing, but something more inherent to the child himself. There could come a time as a parent when it is necessary to say "I did all I could do, it's out of my hands now" and move on with your life. This scenario, of course, only pertains to the point when a child becomes an adult, and sometimes that point is hard to determine.
 
I think the further you go back the worse the expression of love is.
Men were MEN and women were baby factories not even worthy to vote.
Even the right to control their own bodies is a very recent right finally accorded to women.
When men and women aren't viewed as equals it's hard to create a truly loving atmosphere
between a couple when one doesn't think the other is their equal.

Edit: ....and extrapolating that environment into the respect each partner has for each other
as viewed by the offspring does a lot towards creating how much love is present in each family
 
People used to be more responsible and stuff like running off, getting pregnant and coming back home was rare. Usually if a woman ran away and got pregnant, she would marry the guy and try to work it out. Nowadays people just get divorced and go back to mommy and daddy. Parents still loved their children, but they made sure that their children would be able to survive on their own (tough love). It usually ended up teaching their children the right message and the children grew up living their own lives.
 
I've always loved my children,that doesn't mean that I always like them though or that I always agree with their POV.
 
Originally posted by: CPA
Couple of things:

I view my children as investments (no I'm not asian). They are an investment of my time, energy and money. I would hope that I could get something back, not monetarily, per se, but something viable, if not tangible.

Which leads me to my second point, I do not think I could love my children unconditionally. If my child turned out to be a mass-murderer or serial rapist, even after the investment I made, I do not think I could love him/her. Though I am not religious by nature, I believe some people are born evil, whether it comes biologically or otherwise, and no amount of love, affection, time, energy or money will change that (You can put your whole energies into a business, and it can still fail).

Since every child is different, and there is not one standard in raising every child, you put in what you know, what you can and hope for the best. But, there comes a time when that child ceases being a child and must not start making decision for him/herself. If he decides against the good, and it's egregious enough, it may not be a matter of his upbringing, but something more inherent to the child himself. There could come a time as a parent when it is necessary to say "I did all I could do, it's out of my hands now" and move on with your life. This scenario, of course, only pertains to the point when a child becomes an adult, and sometimes that point is hard to determine.
Click to expand...


This is why i dont believe in having kids, there's just too much risk that they will turn out to be crap, specially with how society is today. I just dont like the whole idea of wasting around 18 years of my life for probably nothing. I mean it's not like having kids that like you is a great reward for your efforts.

Save your time, money and energy. Buy yourself a dog and a nice sports car 😛 instead.

If my fiancee ever sees these posts i'm a dead man 😛.
 
Originally posted by: CPA
Couple of things:

I view my children as investments (no I'm not asian). They are an investment of my time, energy and money. I would hope that I could get something back, not monetarily, per se, but something viable, if not tangible.

Which leads me to my second point, I do not think I could love my children unconditionally. If my child turned out to be a mass-murderer or serial rapist, even after the investment I made, I do not think I could love him/her. Though I am not religious by nature, I believe some people are born evil, whether it comes biologically or otherwise, and no amount of love, affection, time, energy or money will change that (You can put your whole energies into a business, and it can still fail).

Since every child is different, and there is not one standard in raising every child, you put in what you know, what you can and hope for the best. But, there comes a time when that child ceases being a child and must not start making decision for him/herself. If he decides against the good, and it's egregious enough, it may not be a matter of his upbringing, but something more inherent to the child himself. There could come a time as a parent when it is necessary to say "I did all I could do, it's out of my hands now" and move on with your life. This scenario, of course, only pertains to the point when a child becomes an adult, and sometimes that point is hard to determine.
Click to expand...

how do you feel about the "necessity" vs "indulgence" idea tho??

in the past, children were necessary. the most successful people often had the most children.

now there is no correlation between number of children and success. it could be argued that there is a negative correlation between number of children and financial success.
 
Originally posted by: Ciber
Originally posted by: CPA
Couple of things:

I view my children as investments (no I'm not asian). They are an investment of my time, energy and money. I would hope that I could get something back, not monetarily, per se, but something viable, if not tangible.

Which leads me to my second point, I do not think I could love my children unconditionally. If my child turned out to be a mass-murderer or serial rapist, even after the investment I made, I do not think I could love him/her. Though I am not religious by nature, I believe some people are born evil, whether it comes biologically or otherwise, and no amount of love, affection, time, energy or money will change that (You can put your whole energies into a business, and it can still fail).

Since every child is different, and there is not one standard in raising every child, you put in what you know, what you can and hope for the best. But, there comes a time when that child ceases being a child and must not start making decision for him/herself. If he decides against the good, and it's egregious enough, it may not be a matter of his upbringing, but something more inherent to the child himself. There could come a time as a parent when it is necessary to say "I did all I could do, it's out of my hands now" and move on with your life. This scenario, of course, only pertains to the point when a child becomes an adult, and sometimes that point is hard to determine.
Click to expand...


This is why i dont believe in having kids, there's just too much risk that they will turn out to be crap, specially with how society is today. I just dont like the whole idea of wasting around 18 years of my life for probably nothing. I mean it's not like having kids that like you is a great reward for your efforts.

Save your time, money and energy. Buy yourself a dog and a nice sports car 😛 instead.

If my fiancee ever sees these posts i'm a dead man 😛.
Click to expand...


Sometimes, I think the same way, especially after my 6 year old has one of his crazy days. But a dog can't ride a dirtbike or play bball with you or better yet, live your life the way you wanted to 😀😉
 
To my mind you have kids for two main reasons, as an expression of your love with your partner and because you think you've got the right stuff to produce and rear people who will be assets in our world.

My kids are awesome young adults,best thing I've ever had a hand in.
 
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