Have not been here lately - question about current version of health care bill

episodic

Lifer
Feb 7, 2004
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Since it gets rid of pre-existing conditions - will I finally be able to shop around against my employers insurance and get insurance individually w/o being turned down (I have been turned down for preexisting conditions)? There are reasons I'd like to shop around obviously.


Or am I still in the same boat for a new reason I don't understand?
 

sciwizam

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
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I maybe wrong, but this is my understanding:

If by "rid of pre-existing conditions", you mean you'll be able to get coverage, then yes, soon (immediately?) for children and for adults from 2013-4. But, I don't think you'll pay the same price as otherwise "healthy" people. I remember, Gov.Dean talking about as much as 50% extra (compared to what? I'm not sure, maybe young people.)

BTW, this is about the Senate version (but, I believe the final version will mostly resemble the Senate version)
 
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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
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The asnwer is yes per sciwizam's post. However, I don't know if you would be eligible for sudsidies, which would pay for about 2/3's of the premium cost, when you have employer insurance available but have opted out of it. That's something you'll have to inquire about. Also, the pre-existing condition reform does not kick in until I believe 2011 or 2012, except for children, for whom it kicks in right away.

- wolf
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
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As long as your preexisting condition is not that you are an aborted baby that survived. Because abortions aren't covered.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
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I maybe wrong, but this is my understanding:

If by "rid of pre-existing conditions", you mean you'll be able to get coverage, then yes, soon (immediately?) for children and for adults from 2013-4. But, I don't think you'll pay the same price as otherwise "healthy" people. I remember, Gov.Dean talking about as much as 50% extra (compared to what? I'm not sure, maybe young people.)

BTW, this is about the Senate version (but, I believe the final version will mostly resemble the Senate version)

The one thing that does start in 2010 are the new taxes.
 

sciwizam

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,953
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As long as your preexisting condition is not that you are an aborted baby that survived. Because abortions aren't covered.

Offtopic, but anyway, if you write a separate check, I'm sure they are covered.
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Its really hard to tell what we will get from the Senate tomorrow from the Senate version
of health care reform.

Somehow the mandate to pass something anything has over ridden quality, but I mostly blame the Rupublirats for that mindset. At the end of the day, the GOP had to be beaten into submission as the most important thing.

And my hope is, once we have a health reform law and many reforms start to be on the books, a not too distant future congress can come back and correct some of the shortcomings. And add some of the wisdom that a true bi-partisan health care bill could have produced long before.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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The one thing that does start in 2010 are the new taxes.

could you start a thread about this? You're one of thew few posters I can rely on to post sensible information backed up with sources and facts. I don't have time to follow everything that's going on politically, where do you find it?

I'd like to know about these new taxes.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
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could you start a thread about this? You're one of thew few posters I can rely on to post sensible information backed up with sources and facts. I don't have time to follow everything that's going on politically, where do you find it?

I'd like to know about these new taxes.

It would be good to have a topic that addresses these concerns. Pending that, here is a brief commentary on what to expect should some version of the Senate bill pass -

Obamacare Slaps $15,000 Annual Fee on Middle Class Families

Terry Jeffrey

Wednesday, December 23, 2009

(Terry Jeffrey is the editor of Human Events, the oldest conservative journal in America. Human Events has featured hard-hitting investigative reporting focusing on national security threats to the United States, corruption and waste in government, and the inside story on politics as it is practiced in the nation's capital.)

The Congressional Budget Office's analysis of the final Senate health care bill indicates it would slap a mandatory annual fee of about $15,000 on middle-class families that earn an annual income greater than 400 percent of the federal poverty level ($88,200 for a family of four) and are not provided with health insurance by their employer.

On Dec. 19, the CBO sent a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., analyzing the fiscal impact of the bill the Senate is poised to vote on before Christmas.

The CBO analysis cites five basic facts about the bill that acting together would deal a devastating financial blow to many middle-class families if the bill is enacted and enforced as written.

Here are these facts:

Fact 1: You will be forced to buy health insurance.

Page 1 of the CBO's letter to Reid says, "Among other things, the legislation would establish a mandate for most legal residents of the United States to obtain health insurance"

Fact 2: You will be eligible for a federal subsidy to help you buy health insurance, but only if you earn less than 400 percent of the poverty level ($88,200 for a family of four), your employer does not offer you coverage and you purchase a government-approved plan in a government-regulated insurance exchange.

Page 7 of the CBO's letter to Reid says: "The bill also would establish new insurance exchanges and would subsidize the purchase of health insurance through those exchanges for individuals and families with income between 133 percent and 400 percent of the federal poverty level. ... As a rule, full-time workers who were offered coverage from their employer would not be eligible to obtain subsidies via the exchanges."

Fact 3: Your employer will not be required to offer you coverage, and will face a maximum fine of $750 per worker per year if it does not.

Page 7 of the CBO letter to Reid says: "In general, firms with more than 50 workers that did not offer coverage would have to pay a penalty of $750 for each full-time worker if any of their workers obtained subsidized coverage through the insurance exchanges; that dollar amount would be indexed."

Fact 4: Your insurance provider will face new federal mandates that will increase its cost for any plan it offers you.

Page 7 of the CBO's letter to Reid says, "Policies purchased through the exchanges (or directly from insurers) would have to meet several requirements: In particular, insurers would have to accept all applicants, could not limit coverage for pre-existing medical conditions, and could not vary premiums to reflect differences in enrollees' health."

Fact 5: Your family insurance plan -- if your employer drops your coverage and you are forced to buy it on your own -- will cost about $15,000 per year when the legislation is in full force in 2016.

Page 19 of the CBO letter to Reid says the average premiums for insurance plans under the final version of the bill should be "quite similar" to the estimates the CBO and Joint Committee on Taxation made in a Nov. 30 letter to Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind.: "Although CBO and JCT have not updated the estimates provided in that letter, the effects on premiums of the legislation incorporating the manager's amendment would probably be quite similar." Page 6 of the CBO's letter to Bayh said: "Average premiums per policy in the nongroup market in 2016 would be roughly $5,800 for single policies and $15,200 for family policies under the proposal."

The Senate health care bill gives employers two powerful incentives to stop offering health insurance coverage to their workers. First, if an employer does offer coverage, its lower-wage workers will lose the federal insurance subsidy they would otherwise get. Secondly, if an employer does not offer coverage, the $750-per-worker fine it faces will be far less than the premiums it would pay if it did offer coverage.

Where does this leave a mom and dad with two children and an annual income greater than $88,200? It leaves them without employer-based health insurance and facing a federally mandated $15,000-per-year insurance bill.

If this legislation is not stopped now, there will surely be a popular rebellion when the insurance mandate hits in five years.

When that happens, the liberals will not say: We made a mistake. We never should have forced families out of their employer-based health insurance and required them to purchase a $15,000 policy. They will say: We told you so. We cannot trust these greedy insurance companies. We need a single-payer system so the government can provide everyone with health care.

Just like they did in the Soviet Union.

This commentary is a response to the CBO response to Sen. Reid on Dec. 19 -

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=10868

A letter of clarification was subsequently issued -

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=10870

Here is the CBO commentary on the House bill -

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=10741

Remember that the CBO responds only to what the individual Congressmen ask and does the evaluation using the scenarios proposed by the Congressmen. If they say they are going to reduce Medicare payments to doctors by 20% (yea, right!) then that is what the CBO uses to make projections.

Here is a little more detailed commentary that specifically addresses the Senate health insurance premium tax that would impose new costs on Americans who already have coverage while deferring for years the even larger amounts that Congress proposes to spend subsidizing those without coverage -

http://s3.amazonaws.com/thf_media/2009/pdf/bg2350.pdf
 
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Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
could you start a thread about this? You're one of thew few posters I can rely on to post sensible information backed up with sources and facts. I don't have time to follow everything that's going on politically, where do you find it?

I'd like to know about these new taxes.

Well let me start off and say that all of the new taxes are in theory as no legislation has been signed into law. However, both pieces of legislation out of the house and the senate contain front loaded taxes - by that I mean that the first few years are only taxes while the services come in the later years. This makes the 10 year outlook look like it costs less because you are taxing for 10 years but only providing services for 6 years.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
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Ok on the whole this is less bad than I was expecting.
I'm confused though, if any on employee doesn't take the employer offered health insurance, the company will be fined $750 for every worker-- not just the ones that didn't take the employee offered care.
That's stupid.

Big WTF-- rates don't depend on health.
In other words, if you eat a bunch of fat people comfort foods and don't eat healthy, don't restrict intake (ie let yourself get fat), your rates will be the same as mine, someone who eats healthy and lifts weights etc.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
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The one thing that does start in 2010 are the new taxes.

Not really, no. A very small tax on insurance companies starts in 2010 which generates a whopping $1 billion in revenue. The main tax - on high premium plans - starts in 2013. Both taxes ramp up and are very backloaded, with the major revenues phasing in toward the end of the next decade. Revenues generated prior to the 2013, which is the first major benefit year, are negligible.

- wolf
 
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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
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Ok on the whole this is less bad than I was expecting.
I'm confused though, if any on employee doesn't take the employer offered health insurance, the company will be fined $750 for every worker-- not just the ones that didn't take the employee offered care.
That's stupid.

Big WTF-- rates don't depend on health.
In other words, if you eat a bunch of fat people comfort foods and don't eat healthy, don't restrict intake (ie let yourself get fat), your rates will be the same as mine, someone who eats healthy and lifts weights etc.

I don't think your first paragraph is accurate, but if you can source that, please do so.

Your second paragraph is definitely not accurate. Insurance companies can charge up to 50% more based on pre-existing conditions, and can charge up to 300% more based on age differences.

- wolf
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Its really hard to tell what we will get from the Senate tomorrow from the Senate version
of health care reform.

Somehow the mandate to pass something anything has over ridden quality, but I mostly blame the Rupublirats for that mindset. At the end of the day, the GOP had to be beaten into submission as the most important thing.

And my hope is, once we have a health reform law and many reforms start to be on the books, a not too distant future congress can come back and correct some of the shortcomings. And add some of the wisdom that a true bi-partisan health care bill could have produced long before.
You should seek help and make it soon. Don't wait for health care to kick in, by then it may be too late.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
The Rethuglican's opposed Social Security,Medicare but now they are the defenders of these social programs...oh the irony. Hopefully when these bills goto to the conference Committee they will produce a much more progressive bill.
I predict after this bill gets passed and becomes popular the Rethuglican's will defend it too...:rolleyes:

Here is a breakdown of these two bills which both significantly stripped down by Senators in the pockets of Big Pharma and the Insurance monopolies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8424660.stm

Here is a comparison of what we pay in healthcare to other countries.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8201711.stm
 
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ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
Where does this leave a mom and dad with two children and an annual income greater than $88,200? It leaves them without employer-based health insurance and facing a federally mandated $15,000-per-year insurance bill.

If this legislation is not stopped now, there will surely be a popular rebellion when the insurance mandate hits in five years.http://s3.amazonaws.com/thf_media/2009/pdf/bg2350.pdf

Why all the sensationalism?

Why not let the free (job) market work this out?

If employers are going to drop health insurance, yet workers are going to have to still pay for it, workers are going to demand higher pay to compensate for this new expense.
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
Big WTF-- rates don't depend on health.
In other words, if you eat a bunch of fat people comfort foods and don't eat healthy, don't restrict intake (ie let yourself get fat), your rates will be the same as mine, someone who eats healthy and lifts weights etc.

Yep, get used to it.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
31,420
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Dec 30, 2004
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I don't think your first paragraph is accurate, but if you can source that, please do so.

Your second paragraph is definitely not accurate. Insurance companies can charge up to 50% more based on pre-existing conditions, and can charge up to 300% more based on age differences.

- wolf

No it's definitely accurate, it's in this document: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10868/12-19-Reid_Letter_Managers_Correction_Noted.pdf
In particular, insurers would
have to accept all applicants, could not limit coverage for preexisting medical conditions,
and could not vary premiums to reflect differences in enrollees’ health.

In other words, healthy people pay for fat people.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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If the lady is on the way to an abortion clinic, and she gets killed in a car accident, the person at fault for the car accident will be guilty of 2 deaths, not 1.

She couldn't be bothered to bring a condom, so instead she murders what would otherwise become a child in the real world who grows up to be someone like (hopefully not) you.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
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I don't think your first paragraph is accurate, but if you can source that, please do so.

Your second paragraph is definitely not accurate. Insurance companies can charge up to 50% more based on pre-existing conditions, and can charge up to 300% more based on age differences.

- wolf

I dont believe thats true about the senate bill passed this morning.