Have I been doing it wrong all this time?

[SaltBoy]

*UPDATE*
After cleaning my cpu core and heatsink, applying a fresh new blob of AS3, and reseating the heatsink, I was able to lower my CPU temperature by about 4C. Its idle temperature is now at 49C and after a heavy load I haven't seen the temperature get above 53C yet.

Of course, I still would like to bring the temperature down even more. I figure that air flow is now my biggest issue, so I think some higher-powered fans would do some good. After all, my Hard drives make more noise than my panaflo's. Of course, I don't want anything TOO noisy. Could anybody suggest some fans with a good CFM-noise balance? Thanks!

*END UPDATE*



I have an AMD XP 2800+ CPU, complete with an Alpha PAL 8045 with a Panaflo Fan. Everything is quiet, and the processor performs as it should. HOWEVER, the CPU's idle temperature is at a pretty high 53C, and whenever I play UT2K4 (or whatever...) it goes up to 57C, which in turn affects Windows performance for the worse. Not only that, whenever I leave my computer on, it seems to radiate a lot more heat than I think it should.

Wanting to cool things down (literally), I just did some research on the web as to what other people's temperature were with a similar CPU/heatsink/fan setup as mine. I wasn't able to get an EXACT match on my setup, but I was able to see that a majority of the CPU temperature's were averaging between 35-40C in an idle start.

I KNEW that a change of heatsink/fan wouldn't make THAT much of a difference (or would it? :confused, so I figured I was doing something wrong.

Lo and behold, I discovered that my Panaflo fan might be directing air in the wrong direction! My fan is configured so that the air flows from the heatsink to the "open space" in my case - away from the CPU. Maybe my eyes were fooling me, but I just read that that air needs to be blown ONTO the CPU. In other words, the Panaflo is supposed to be taking air from the "open space" in my case and pushing it towards the CPU so that it could stay cool. I've been pushing air away from the CPU because I thought it would draw away the hot air that the CPU produces and thus cool it.

Which way is right? If the fan is supposed to push air onto the CPU, feel free to point and laugh at me. I would deserve it!

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: SaltBoy
I have an AMD XP 2800+ CPU, complete with an Alpha PAL 8045 with a Panaflo Fan. Everything is quiet, and the processor performs as it should. HOWEVER, the CPU's idle temperature is at a pretty high 53C, and whenever I play UT2K4 (or whatever...) it goes up to 57C, which in turn affects Windows performance for the worse. Not only that, whenever I leave my computer on, it seems to radiate a lot more heat than I think it should.

Wanting to cool things down (literally), I just did some research on the web as to what other people's temperature were with a similar CPU/heatsink/fan setup as mine. I wasn't able to get an EXACT match on my setup, but I was able to see that a majority of the CPU temperature's were averaging between 35-40C in an idle start.

I KNEW that a change of heatsink/fan wouldn't make THAT much of a difference (or would it? :confused, so I figured I was doing something wrong.

Lo and behold, I discovered that my Panaflo fan might be directing air in the wrong direction! My fan is configured so that the air flows from the heatsink to the "open space" in my case - away from the CPU. Maybe my eyes were fooling me, but I just read that that air needs to be blown ONTO the CPU. In other words, the Panaflo is supposed to be taking air from the "open space" in my case and pushing it towards the CPU so that it could stay cool. I've been pushing air away from the CPU because I thought it would draw away the hot air that the CPU produces and thus cool it.

Which way is right? If the fan is supposed to push air onto the CPU, feel free to point and laugh at me. I would deserve it!

You know I have some mechanical engineering freinds and there not convinced that it makes that big of a difference. A lot depends on what happens to that hot air after its moved away from the cpu. Does it get vented out or does it just sit in the case and warm up. But just to let you know, I use to have a athlon xp 2800+ and it ran much hotter than my current set up (a64 2800+).

 

[DAPUNISHER]

First, don't trust temp readings since they can vary radically from board to board, and sometimes even bios revision to bios revision. Next, here is what Alpha says about air flow direction text so test and decide for yourself, but if the system is stable then I wouldn't pay too much attention to temps

 

[SaltBoy]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
First, don't trust temp readings since they can vary radically from board to board, and sometimes even bios revision to bios revision. Next, here is what Alpha says about air flow direction text so test and decide for yourself, but if the system is stable then I wouldn't pay too much attention to temps

Well, if airflow to/from the CPU isn't that much of an issue, I still would like to get my idle temps down to at most 40C. Would this require a better heatsink, a fan with higher CFM, both, or just more intake/outake fans?

Thanks!

 

[LTC8K6]

Why don't you make it go the "right" way and see what happens?

You can do a little experiment for us.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Honestly, your concern over temps is seriously outdated. The max operational temp is 85-90c and even with a margin of error of +/- 10c that puts you well within normal operational parameters for the CPU. The 8045 is still a very good cooler and easily capable of keeping that CPU cool, if you haven't cleaned it out of dust in a long time start there, and a fresh application of AS or whatever you prefer would be in oder as well. A higher CFM fan would be the next way to improve cooling but there is no way you need another heatsink.

 

[SaltBoy]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Honestly, your concern over temps is seriously outdated. The max operational temp is 85-90c and even with a margin of error of +/- 10c that puts you well within normal operational parameters for the CPU. The 8045 is still a very good cooler and easily capable of keeping that CPU cool, if you haven't cleaned it out of dust in a long time start there, and a fresh application of AS or whatever you prefer would be in oder as well. A higher CFM fan would be the next way to improve cooling but there is no way you need another heatsink.

I was thinking of just starting over and doing a fresh application of AS as you mentioned. FYI, all I know is that whenever my CPU starts reaching temps of 57C, my system slows down. It's VERY noticable, and I just want it to stop.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Could I have your system specs please? Also what is the room temp ?

 

[Drayvn]

The thing is, when ur fan is blowing away from the heatsink the back of the fan is only pulling air that is right next the fan, and so the heat lingers more within the heatsink which in turn heats up the CPU

But if it blows into the heatsink there is more force and so pushes the heat away a lot quicker...

 

[trexpesto]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Honestly, your concern over temps is seriously outdated. The max operational temp is 85-90c and even with a margin of error of +/- 10c

I thought that 85C was the death temp, not running temp?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: trexpesto

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Honestly, your concern over temps is seriously outdated. The max operational temp is 85-90c and even with a margin of error of +/- 10c

I thought that 85C was the death temp, not running temp?

I've read articles that stated the XP survived extremely brief spikes as high as 125c before shutdown without permanant damage.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Drayvn
The thing is, when ur fan is blowing away from the heatsink the back of the fan is only pulling air that is right next the fan, and so the heat lingers more within the heatsink which in turn heats up the CPU

But if it blows into the heatsink there is more force and so pushes the heat away a lot quicker...

Except if you read what alpha says, they use a intake cover to draw air through the lower part of the heat sink for more heat dissipation from the lower part of the fins. Unless there is another source of heat near it that is causing it to pull hot air into the fins they say their own testing showed that it was the better setup for their design.

 

[klah]

Originally posted by: SaltBoywhenever I leave my computer on, it seems to radiate a lot more heat than I think it should.

The heatsink on your cpu has nothing to do with how much power/heat your system uses/creates.

 

[Markfw]

Regardless if the readings are correct or not, reverse the airflow, and see what the temps are. If they are lower, leave it that way. If they are higher, put it back.

 

[JBT]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Regardless if the readings are correct or not, reverse the airflow, and see what the temps are. If they are lower, leave it that way. If they are higher, put it back.

uhhh dude wouldn't that be a little bit to easy? haha try it out and see. I have heard the Alpha series was supose to suck air from the heatsink but obviously from set up to setup the direction could change.

 

[TStep]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Regardless if the readings are correct or not, reverse the airflow, and see what the temps are. If they are lower, leave it that way. If they are higher, put it back.

Absolutely. I also change the direction of the case fans to check and see if they are disrupting the overall airflow around the hsf. Takes a while if you have more than one, but in the end you'll know what the coolest setup is.

 

[Mullzy]

Get some compressed air and clean that heatsink out... then try the fan both ways. Use whatever gives you lower temperatures.

While you're at it... make sure you have 1 or more case fans blow OUT of your case too. I'm sure stranger things have happened.

 

[SaltBoy]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Could I have your system specs please? Also what is the room temp ?

Sorry for the late reply. Let's see here...

AMD XP 2800+
Alpha PAL8045 Heatsink
Panaflo 80mm fan
EPOX 8RDA (Motherboard)
512 MB PC3200 (Crucial) RAM
ATI 9700Pro (Video)
SBAudigy 2 ZS Platinum (Sound)
TDK 32x CD-RW
Creative Labs 6x DVD

Anything else that I missing?

 

[trexpesto]

Originally posted by: SaltBoy

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Could I have your system specs please? Also what is the room temp ?

Sorry for the late reply. Let's see here...

AMD XP 2800+
Alpha PAL8045 Heatsink
Panaflo 80mm fan
EPOX 8RDA (Motherboard)
512 MB PC3200 (Crucial) RAM
ATI 9700Pro (Video)
SBAudigy 2 ZS Platinum (Sound)
TDK 32x CD-RW
Creative Labs 6x DVD

Anything else that I missing?

The room temp.

 

[SaltBoy]

D'oh! 75 Fahrenheit

 

[MrK6]

I can't believe no one has asked this yet. What about your case air flow? What kind of case do you have, how man fans, what kind of fans, how are they set up, etc. etc. Case airflow is the difference between 50C CPU and a 30C CPU.

 

[SaltBoy]

Originally posted by: MrK6
I can't believe no one has asked this yet. What about your case air flow? What kind of case do you have, how man fans, what kind of fans, how are they set up, etc. etc. Case airflow is the difference between 50C CPU and a 30C CPU.

I currently have my case open -- in other words, while the air isn't exactly pushed in or out, it isn't exactly trapped, either. I still get the high temps.

 

[dripgoss]

Here's a good test to make sure your BIOS/Temp readings aren't borked:

Since your case side is off, put a huge room fan up against your case (alternate blowing in and out) and see if your readings change dramatically. If not, then you know your reading mechanism is just off. If it drops like 20c, then you know you really are running hot and need to do something about it. At that point, I suggest a good 1200grit lapping on that PAL HS and fresh AS5 applique as others have suggested...

Oh also, I don't see if you've mention or not whether you're already OCing this thing. If so, double check your voltage settings in the BIOS and maybe even make sure your BIOS is defaulted and updated just to make sure...

 

[maluckey]

SaltBoy

I have a PAL8045 on my NF7-S v2.0. The Alpha PAL8045 is designed to run in reverse-flow, so the way you have it installed is just fine.

The reverse flow setup, combined iwth a larger fan, can really help cool the motherboard and MOSFETS along the side of the CPU. This slightly raises the CPU temperatures, but ultimately still helps with overclocking because the mobo runs cooler. The thing to watch is case flow to get rid of the heated air.

I run 213 x 11.5 for extended gaming sessions, and the temperaure never goes above 53 C. in a non-air-coditioned room. I run a 45 CFM HS fan. I lapped the HS contact surface. My case has two 92mm intake, and two 80mm exhaust fans, along with the ultra low speed 120mm PSU fan.

Last summer, I vented the CPU to outside of he case while in reverse flow mode, and the entire system temps plummeted by 5 C. for the CPU, and the mobo dropped to 1 C. above ambient.

 

[Mullzy]

Originally posted by: SaltBoy
I currently have my case open -- in other words, while the air isn't exactly pushed in or out, it isn't exactly trapped, either. I still get the high temps.

Some cases run a lot cooler with the side panel on and air flowing through the case and over the mobo/cpu than with the panel off.

If you have 1/2 fans blowing out the back and a least 1 fan blowing in (front or side) you may find you get a lower case temperature with everything sealed up, than just having it open.