Hate to say it but P3 coppermine is a laugh!!!...P3<>Duron<>Celeron

AngelOfDeath

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2000
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Look at this review I for sure - even though I own a P3 myself, think that it's a laugh for the price.

Once more I'm convinced that AMD is the way to go next time I upgrade.

AoD ;)
 

squirrel dog

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
5,564
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Amd would be the way for a whole lot of people if it didnt require a new power supply,motherboard,ram in some cases.Its apples and oranges.
 

Vegito

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 1999
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Pentium 4 would be the way for a whole lot of people if it didnt require a new power supply,motherboard,ram in some cases.Its apples and oranges


Bottom line, all new generation CPUs requires new things. I like to see you try running a P4 in your 486 motherboard, ram and power supply
 

Vegito

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 1999
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So you're going to run a P4 in a BX boards, if thats' what you're saying
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
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I have just gone over to AMD from a Intel based system before, &amp; have had no problems with stability, I can recommend AMD for future buyers ,just make sure you get good,PSU,ram,etc &amp; you should be fine.

:)
 

wake

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
522
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The point is that I used my BX motherboard 2 years ago with my celeron 366, today with my coppermine, and next year with a 1ghz.
 

jeremy806

Senior member
May 10, 2000
647
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Bought my P2B, 128MB PC-100 RAM back in summer 1998.

CPU history:

Summer 98 - P2-350 (Damn that was expensive back then).
Winter 99 - Switched to Celeron 400.
Winter 00 - Switched to Celeron 366@350
Summer 00 - Switched to Celeron 533@800

All on the BX. And, I sold the old Celerons for near the purchase price.

Same motherboard, same memory, 2 1/2 years now.

As for videocards, well, too bad video cards don't have good resale value.

jeremy806
 

Vegito

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 1999
8,329
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I like both amd and intel but it's the same problem everytime.

Intel = Higher Price = Speed is almost the same
AMD = Lower Price = Speed JUST as good - I had enough of loading VIA drivers for speed

AMD's problem is in the chip set. Intel's problem is in my pocket.
 

pidge

Banned
Oct 10, 1999
1,519
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AMD would be the best choice hands down if only Via would stop making crappy chipsets and make a chipset comparable in stability to the BX chipset.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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<< if only Via would stop making crappy chipsets and make a chipset comparable in stability to the BX chipset. >>



Dude you are clearly talking out of your a$$ on that one...My Asus P3V4X mobo is one of the best and MOST stable I have ever used...


Ausm
 

Vegito

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 1999
8,329
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Yes, yes, but the speed isn't there on a VIA.. I bought a few via and wasn't that disappointed but still.. not a bx..
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
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I second that, ausm.

I don't really understand why people say that anymore. I mean... All I ever see is praises for the P3V4X from owners and reviewers.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
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There are quite a few stable boards it just some people don`t set them up right &amp; it`s easy to blame the hardware(I`m not saying Via or Intel is perfect),My MSI K7T PRO board is rock solid,btw before this I had a Intel LX chipset board so am comparing my old board to the new Via one I`ve got.

:)
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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I've used several Intel chipset-based boards and several more Via-based boards. The stability issue easily, easily, goes to Intel. I've always been a big fan of AMD for competition's sake, and I've used a couple K6's and a couple K6-2's along the way. However, even the latest Via chipsets don't compare to the BX in stability, though I'm currently running one on my Tyan Trinity 400. Compared to the Soyo 6VBA+III I had previously, this board just isn't quite as cooperative.

AMD makes great products, but they really should make their own chipsets. I've never had an Intel chipset screw up Windows unlike the Via 4-in-1 drivers which have absolutely destroyed two Windows installations on two separate occasions. Maybe their Athlon/T-bird chipsets are better, but given a choice of identical features and either an Intel or a Via chipset, I would immediately choose Intel.
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
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AndrewR, I mostly agree. Even though my via p3v4x is the most stable platform I've ever owned, if I had to buy an Intel chip today I'd opt for i815e. As for amd chipset motherboards, that's the area where I thought via had a lot of work to do. My current belief is that amd's chips are great but the platforms still haven't matured. Soon they will and I may not need to consider an Intel part again.
 

GT1999

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
5,261
1
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I love my trusty Abit BF6 BX board and P3-450@600.

If I upgrade, I'll be getting a completley new system..
 

Ogo

Member
Sep 8, 2000
126
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Well it doesn't seem to be the chipset's problem anymore, but the quality of the motherboard you buy, for example, my A7V hasn't crashed once in the last couple weeks... I agree that most Socket 7 mobo's werent stable at all... but I simply can't relate to any of your problems with the KT133... I haven't had any
 

Erasmus-X

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 1999
2,076
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It's really simple. If you already had existing hardware to utilize a P3, why not use it? If you are looking at your next upgrade from cost-effective perspective, it makes little sense to buy a new motherboard and possibly a new power supply to accomodate that Duron. So, the price difference between a P3 and a Duron might be huge, but that new motherboard might through an AMD processor out of your league.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,590
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www.bing.com
you have to remember that the P3 core is the oldest mainstream core, when it first came out AMD was a laughing stock, nothing could beat the P3 back then, but AMD has caught up in speed, quality, and for the most part stability. The P3 has lasted a long time and is one of the best CPU's ever made public. BUt its getting old and will soon have to be replaced by the P4 core.
 

Modus

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,235
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Just to clear up a few misconceptions:

1) Intel chipsets are not measurably more stable than VIA or AMD chipsets.

No test has ever established that. Actually, running CC Winstone 2000 or Q3A in a continuous loop -- as Anand does for his stability tests -- shows that modern VIA motherboards and chipsets are extremely stable, provided the correct drivers are installed and the latest BIOS is resident (a necessity for any recent hardware). As far as stability is concerned, I don't think there's a better testament to the strength of the VIA/AMD platform than the fact that Anand is using Thunderbird/KT133 systems to run these very forums.

And remember that the BX chipset is almost three years old -- an eternity in computer hardware. The BX chipset should be extremely stable, simply because it has had so long for motherboard implementations to mature. The fact that it continues to show excellent stability after three years of high usage in the computer industry simply tells us that Intel didn't screw it up.

2) AMD systems do not require special RAM.

I build my cutomers' Athlon/Duron systems with nothing but the cheapest generic PC133. AMD has no special requirements for RAM other than Intel's PC100 specifications.

As far as the power supply issue is concerned, it takes very little effort to glance at AMD's recommended list and find a case with an aproved PSU. In fact, the price difference between a case with a quality power supply and a generic case can be so small, even Intel systems would benefit from the added voltage and current stablility.

For proper cooling, both AMD and Intel have certain heatsink/fan guidelines, and these must be followed like any other operating specification. They have little effect on the final price of a system.

3) VIA chipsets are not significantly slower.

Check out the http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/chipsetshootout/default.asp at Firing Squad. Notice that only the wildly overclocked BX chipset is able to beat the VIA 133A by a significant margin. In fact, the 133A is actually faster than the i815e and BX133 in certain tests. And of course, let's not forget the pitiful performance of the &quot;rich man's&quot; i820/RDRAM platform, which continues to prove Intel's fallability in the chipset arena. Actually, the performance differences between these platforms are rarely more than 5% either way, making a speed comparison somewhat pointless.

Erasmus-X,

<<If you are looking at your next upgrade from cost-effective perspective, it makes little sense to buy a new motherboard and possibly a new power supply to accomodate that Duron>>

That goes without saying. To turn the argument around, it would be even more idiotic for some one to upgrade a system from a Duron 600 to a P3/866. So the important thing when comparing CPU's is their price/performance ratio when used in a new system.

Modus
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
I Agree totally with Modus on this issue...If you properly intall the drivers and can fine tune the mobo..I would put my Asus P3V4X mobo against any Intel BX Mobo I ever used.

Ausm
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
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Modus said basically what I was going to say, but better. ;)


If your VIA board has the 4-way interleaving option in BIOS, (and even if it doesen't, there is 3rd party software to get it enabled) you can get comparable memory scores with the BX. I do agree though, the BX was one hell of a chipset.


Yep.. The Pentium 3 is almost laughable at this point. The only people buying brand new P3 systems, are the suckers that buy from Dell.


The Pentium 4 will be even more laughable. Especially if it's true P4/1.5GHz <= P3/1.13GHz / Athlon 1.1GHz.

 

Lord Gwynz

Senior member
Nov 24, 1999
332
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I've always thought AMD made great chips, but I always found the motherboard chipsets lacking, stability and performance wise. On my previous K6-2/K6-3 systems that used an Epox MVP3G-M mb, which was heralded as one of the best SS7 boards around, I always experienced strange lockups or blue screens for no apparent reason. Flaky L2 cache on the mb was often blamed, but even with that disabled it was still not 100% stable. Installed and reinstalled to no end countless VIA driver updates, but it was of no help. I then switched over to a Celeron/Abit BE6-2 BX mb, carried over the RAM, video and everything else from my K6-3 setup and all the lockups disappeared. In fact, it even ran rock solid stable with my C400@600. And performance-wise, the K6-3 didn't stand a chance, even with all the 64kL1/256kL2/1megL3 cache it had going for it, while the Celeron on the other hand has what, 32kL1 and 128kL2 cache, yet it still buried the K6-3 alive. I hope for AMD's sake they've found their BX of VIA chipsets already with the KT133(?).