Hate Crime

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,404
7,588
126
I'm watching a story on TV about a sailor that was killed at Camp Pendleton. He was apparently gay, and people are questioning whether it was a hate crime or not. I don't see why it matters. Hate crime laws are bullshit imo, and existing laws cover the respective crimes sufficiently. Is it really that much worse if I call you a i love you before I shoot you? Most crimes of this nature are "hate crimes" of some sort, and additional laws aren't needed for a few protected classes.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,921
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I think the idea is that some people have more incentive to act out against certain minority groups and that those groups have to be protected to stop crimes against them that would not happen against other people under the same conditions. Not sure how I feel on it though.
 

rise

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2004
9,116
46
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a few protected classes? no, they are meant to protect all classes and they serve their purpose, although i agree when the violence results in murder the "regular" laws would/should probably suffice.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,404
7,588
126
Originally posted by: rise
a few protected classes? no, they are meant to protect all classes and they serve their purpose, although i agree when the violence results in murder the "regular" laws would/should probably suffice.

What "hate crime" isn't covered well enough by existing laws? The government needs to get out of the business of legislating thought. It's my right to hate anyone I want, and as long as I don't act criminally, everything's fine. As soon as a crime is committed, existing laws cover it well enough.
 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
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Intent, motive, etc. are a big part of our legal system and absolutely should be considered. Intention for example is the difference between manslaughter and first-degree murder.

I don't really like the idea of hate crime laws that are intended to protect only certain groups of people, though. They should apply equally to all, because anybody can be the victim of a "hate crime" (I hate that term BTW, lol).
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
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Hate crime legislation is no different than the thousands of other pointless laws on the books. Why do we need a ban on cell phone use while driving when reckless driving is already a crime? Because it makes people feel like they are doing something good and right, and it gives politicians something to rally around and gain the support of the masses. That's all.
 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,815
2
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Originally posted by: lxskllr
I'm watching a story on TV about a sailor that was killed at Camp Pendleton. He was apparently gay, and people are questioning whether it was a hate crime or not. I don't see why it matters. Hate crime laws are bullshit imo, and existing laws cover the respective crimes sufficiently. Is it really that much worse if I call you a i love you before I shoot you? Most crimes of this nature are "hate crimes" of some sort, and additional laws aren't needed for a few protected classes.

I thought that you were going on about this at first...
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
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Originally posted by: Anubis
all crimes are hate crimes

not really.

IIRC, the original point of hate crime laws was to open up an avenue for federal prosecution in a place where the local officials might be more lax when it comes to prosecuting criminals who victimized people of certain colors, religions, etc.

and there's the argument that attacking an individual because of their (whatever) is an attack on everyone of that (whatever).

and yes, hate crime laws can even protect you white, heterosexual males.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
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Its goes to intent. The same applies for killing someone.
There is first degree and lower. Hate crime laws apply to the higher end spectrum that shows an intent that is much more damaging then just assault.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,404
7,588
126
Originally posted by: loki8481


and yes, hate crime laws can even protect you white, heterosexual males.

I don't know about that. I suspect that burning a cross in a fat white guys yard wouldn't get the same attention it would if he were black.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,948
130
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hate is a facet of human emotion. there's no getting away from it. all you can do is compel people from acting on hateful emotion.
 

DayLaPaul

Platinum Member
Apr 6, 2001
2,072
0
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It's called a "special circumstance" or "enhancement" and is a method for the state to tack on extra years for a crime. It's no different than the special circumstance of a gun being used to commit a crime or a crime being "gang related" or any of the other hundreds of special circumstances that are all already on the books.

Are you against all crime enhancements or just the hate crime enhancement?
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
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Its always good to shout, "I'll always love you!!" before killing someone. That way more serious charges don't get tacked on for being a hate crime, and you can claim it was a 'crime of passion' and were insane at the time.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,404
7,588
126
Originally posted by: DayLaPaul
It's called a "special circumstance" or "enhancement" and is a method for the state to tack on extra years for a crime. It's no different than the special circumstance of a gun being used to commit a crime or a crime being "gang related" or any of the other hundreds of special circumstances that are all already on the books.

Are you against all crime enhancements or just the hate crime enhancement?

I'm against all enhancements. In your example above, armed robbery is different from robbery. Whether or not a crime is gang related is irrelevant, unless unless the specifics allow it to fall under organized crime laws(racketeering, et al)

 

DayLaPaul

Platinum Member
Apr 6, 2001
2,072
0
76
I just sent a guy away for life. The special circumstances for his crime were that he used a gun to commit murder and that he "lay in wait" in order to ambush his victim. Those two special circumstances made life in prison without the possibility of parole the mandatory sentence. If he hadn't done those two things, he would have gotten 25 to life.

I could see the gun enhancement being somewhat redundant, as he could have used any method to murder his victim and dude would have been just as dead, but I do agree with the "lying in wait" enhancement. I think ambushing a guy that never had a chance is especially heinous and deserves more penalty than an "ordinary" murder.

Editted to add:

Likewise, I think crimes that are proven to be racially motivated or that target a specific sexual orientation are also deserving of a greater penalty than "ordinary" crimes. Our country was founded on certain ideas and these types of crimes go directly against our foundation.
 
Jul 10, 2007
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Originally posted by: daniel1113
Hate crime legislation is no different than the thousands of other pointless laws on the books. Why do we need a ban on cell phone use while driving when reckless driving is already a crime? Because it makes people feel like they are doing something good and right, and it gives politicians something to rally around and gain the support of the masses. That's all.

no, we need ban on cell phone use while driving because it's been proven that driving while on the phone is dangerous, and ppl need a set of rules to abide by, no matter how hard it is to enforce.

i don't know about you, but the last thing i need is someone slamming into my car because they were yacking away or texting on their phones.

this is a public safety measure and has nothing to do with politics or revenues from fines.


and i agree with OP. labeling crimes as hate is stupid. there's so many different ways to hate, are we goign to categorize them all?
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,682
119
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Is killing a person for absolutely no reason(maybe for fun?) better than killing someone FOR a reason, even if that reason is because that person was gay/black/jewish or whatever? both people are fucked up but I'm not sure one is worse than the other. Let alone the former might get off for being insane
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,404
7,588
126
Originally posted by: DayLaPaul
I just sent a guy away for life. The special circumstances for his crime were that he used a gun to commit murder and that he "lay in wait" in order to ambush his victim. Those two special circumstances made life in prison without the possibility of parole the mandatory sentence. If he hadn't done those two things, he would have gotten 25 to life.

I could see the gun enhancement being somewhat redundant, as he could have used any method to murder his victim and dude would have been just as dead, but I do agree with the "lying in wait" enhancement. I think ambushing a guy that never had a chance is especially heinous and deserves more penalty than an "ordinary" murder.

The differentiation makes sense in your case above. That's more like assassination, rather than 2 guys fighting, and one pulls a knife and kills the other.