Haswell-based Pentium & Celeron CPUs Thread

[SPBHM]

comparing results form many source with unknown variables, different software and hardware can't go well, that's why comparing the results from within the same source, using the same PSU and methods makes a lot of sense,

according to Anandtech.com the motherboard used by PClab is also wasting more power than a few others, so how low can we go?

also don't get to attached to the "54W TDP", just look at some obvious examples like 4820K vs 4960x vs 8350 (130vs130vs125) and many others on the same graph.

unfortunately as you probably noticed the G1820 and H81 boards are largely ignored by review websites, so there is not much to work with,

and again looking at this "Golem" test, pretty bizarre that websites prefer to use $120 CPU that is basically not being sold for a comparison with Kabini but not a $50 G1820 you can buy anywhere.

Well Kabini is more of a BayTrail competitor rather than Celeron / Pentium one.

they can have exactly the same price, and somewhat comparable numbers on performance and power, these are definitely competing, you will see all of them being used for cheap desktops, low power media/nas and so on.

 

[TreVader]

I think you entered the wrong topic, your comment makes no sense at all, it's quite bizarre, $350 for Celeron + MB!?

Z87 for Pentium/Celeron is wasteful, and a 4770K works 100% fine on H81, performance is the same if you don't OC.
if you think H81 is bad look at the cheaper AM1 boards, no PCIE 16x, no 4 sata ports and so on...

Kabini full system and Haswell full system can cost the same,
if you have a regular case the G1820 Haswell + h81 board you cost you around $90 which is the same or lower than the 5350 Kabini + AM1 board, and the H81 board offers more, the CPU is faster.



they've used the same PSU for Haswell and Kabini, the power usage range is close enough, it's a pretty valid comparison.

Please link me to this $90 H81/G1820 combo. If you can find it for that price, I'll buy it for you. $90, not a penny more.




Because you can't. Because you don't know how much things cost.

 

[SPBHM]

Please link me to this $90 H81/G1820 combo. If you can find it for that price, I'll buy it for you. $90, not a penny more.




Because you can't. Because you don't know how much things cost.

And that's (haswell) for a POS H81 board. Put a decent Z87 board (because you're going to upgrade to a 4770K right, i mean that's the argument for 1150?) and even an 1820 is going to run you $250-350. That's more than Kabini will cost for a full system.

!?!?

go on newegg.com or other place and start searching, G1820 for $50 is easy, H81 boards for under $50 also not to hard.

good luck.

 

[seitur]

they can have exactly the same price, and somewhat comparable numbers on performance and power, these are definitely competing, you will see all of them being used for cheap desktops, low power media/nas and so on.

Well in this sense it is true. All 4 desktop processors "families" - Celeron&Pentiums, A4-A6 Richland, desktop Baytrails and Kabini are competing with each other since they have relatively similar price points.

Althrough I think for certain user scenarios 'big core' vs 'small core' are quite diffrent and can produce quite diffrent results, even though theoretical Gflops & Watts are similar, then real life scenarios & feel will produce quite diffrent expriences in some of those scenarios.


@up

I think you meant 4770 not 4770K as "K" is wasted on non Z87 board.

 

[TreVader]

!?!?

go on newegg.com or other place and start searching, G1820 for $50 is easy, H81 boards for under $50 also not to hard.

good luck.

I have a G1820 and an MSI B85 board, and I considered H81 but I wanted at least the option to go crossfire or SLI. It came out to something like $130 for both.



It's just not a fair comparison especially with wattage. A G1820 at full load is a lot more power hungry than Kabini.


Besides, Kabini hasn't been out long enough to get any price drops whatsoever. The only reason the Haswell Pentiums and Celerons are so cheap is intel is practically giving them away. And if you're going to compare Kabini, look at bay trail, consistently slower than Kabini but intel is labeling it under a sister SKU (Pentium/celeron).

 

[Abwx]

comparing results form many source with unknown variables, different software and hardware can't go well, that's why comparing the results from within the same source, using the same PSU and methods makes a lot of sense,

according to Anandtech.com the motherboard used by PClab is also wasting more power than a few others, so how low can we go?

also don't get to attached to the "54W TDP", just look at some obvious examples like 4820K vs 4960x vs 8350 (130vs130vs125) and many others on the same graph.

unfortunately as you probably noticed the G1820 and H81 boards are largely ignored by review websites, so there is not much to work with,

and again looking at this "Golem" test, pretty bizarre that websites prefer to use $120 CPU that is basically not being sold for a comparison with Kabini but not a $50 G1820 you can buy anywhere.

The G series comsumption and power range is about the same as the i3 segment so here a few numbers with a i3 4330 54W TDP when iddle, cloudgate and CB.

http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/533...goedkope-desktopplatforms-stroomverbruik-idle

http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/533...ms-stroomverbruik-3dmark-cloud-gate-gemiddeld

http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/533...topplatforms-stroomverbruik-cinebench-115-max


Shave 15-20W out of the i3 load power comsumption and 10W when iddle if you want, it will change nothing to the whole picture.

 

[SPBHM]

The G series comsumption and power range is about the same as the i3 segment so here a few numbers with a i3 4330 54W TDP when iddle, cloudgate and CB.

http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/533...goedkope-desktopplatforms-stroomverbruik-idle

http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/533...ms-stroomverbruik-3dmark-cloud-gate-gemiddeld

http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/533...topplatforms-stroomverbruik-cinebench-115-max


Shave 15-20W out of the i3 load power comsumption and 10W when iddle if you want, it will change nothing to the whole picture.

just because TPD is the same, doesn't mean power usage is close,

again, look at the 4820K vs 4960x graph I posted, same TDP, same test system, 125 vs 150W in reality,

why should I look at 4330 tests (900MHz more, 2x l3, 2x the GPU) when I can just look at this, Kabini and th G1820 running the same test, wit the same PSU?

correct me if I'm wrong but you want me to take numbers from a 900MHz faster, 2x l3, 2x the GPU CPU, running a 750w PSU and high end system, compared to AM1 running a pico psu 150w as more relevant for a fair comparison between Kabini and the G1820 than the PClab test running both with matx and and the same PSU?

really!?

 

[Sweepr]

The only reason the Haswell Pentiums and Celerons are so cheap is intel is practically giving them away.

Is that so? Please share your data about the production costs of the smallest Haswell die, probably barely over 100mm².

 

[Abwx]

correct me if I'm wrong but you want me to take numbers from a 900MHz faster, 2x l3, 2x the GPU CPU, running a 750w PSU and high end system, compared to AM1 running a pico psu 150w as more relevant for a fair comparison between Kabini and the G1820 than the PClab test running both with matx and and the same PSU?

really!?

I used the dutch site to show that Kabini s power usage is much lower than claimed by some sites as THG who write this about Kabini vs BT :

Intel is a bit more miserly with power, but a sub-20 W difference is largely irrelevant in the desktop space.

while the link i posted show that it s rather a sub-6 W difference, this wasnt to show the G/i in bad light, i m fully aware of the set ups and hardware difference but then again if using an efficient PSU for the G/i series i wrote this earliern in this thread :

I dont ignore this and indeed that is the point that interest us and you are right but it wont go as low as a Kabini while it will need much more when loaded given that it has inherently lower perf/watt than Kabini by a sizeable margin even with an efficient PSU for HW.

Now using your PClab numbers we can see that whatever the supply losses the G3220 plateform consume 8W more at iddle than Kabini s.

http://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/radek/2014/am1/wykresy/energia_spoczynek.png

From Golem.de review we know that a Be Quiet Straight Power E9 400 with high efficency at low loads has obviously 6W less losses at thoses levels than PClab s FSP Raider 550 so this would bring down the G3220 number to 22W, a nice number for such a plateform but still on the order of Kabini/BT full load power, besides it would require a 100-120W PSU while the low power solutions are content with 40-50W ones that will help cut the costs corners even more.

http://www.golem.de/news/kabini-fue...lte-jaguare-fuer-jedermann-1404-105670-2.html

I guess that we re running in circles since i already answered your question.

 

[Yuriman]

Please link me to this $90 H81/G1820 combo. If you can find it for that price, I'll buy it for you. $90, not a penny more.




Because you can't. Because you don't know how much things cost.

If we're not counting shipping, I'll take that motherboard and processor please.

G1820 for $43.99 + ASRock H81M for $45.99 = $89.98

If you give me a bit, I may be able to find it for less than that shipped. I hope you're bluffing. ^^

 

[blackened23]

It really is comical that anyone would advocate a desktop Kabini for 10-30$ less than a Haswell pentium or Celeron that literally trounces it in performance. Really, the performance is so absolutely huge it's mind blowing that anyone would even mention Kabini in this thread.

You could bring up something suitable as a competing product like the FX6300 (more expensive), 760k (similarly priced, no APU graphics), 7850k (way more expensive) or any price similar APU platform (llano, low end trinity) but Kabini. Really. LOL. Gotta be kidding me. That chip compared to a Haswell Pentium is like comparing a covette to a yugo. The fact that desktop Kabini is almost price comparable to a full H81 + Haswell celeron is very strange. The price difference should be far more than that.

And yeah, the power difference is meaningless. This is desktop we're talking about. All of these chips will work fine on a 300W PSU, if there's some dude out there sperging over 35W vs 55W on a CPU? That would be quite interesting. As mentioned before, power differences are meaningful when the differences are vast. When you add a dGPU, the difference is vast and requires a bigger PSU. But Kabini vs BT vs Celeron vs Haswell? These are all within 20-30W of each other and all will work on a 300W PSU. This is a DESKTOP PLATFORM. These power differences could mean something for mobile (as is the intended target for Bay Trail) but is meaningless on the desktop in this context.

 

[Yuriman]

It really is comical that anyone would advocate a desktop Kabini for 10-30$ less than a Haswell pentium or Celeron that literally trounces it in performance. Really, the performance is so absolutely huge it's mind blowing that anyone would even mention Kabini in this thread.

You could bring up something suitable as a competing product like the FX6300 (more expensive), 760k (more expensive), 7850k (way more expensive) or any price similar APU platform (llano, low end trinity) but Kabini. Really. LOL. Gotta be kidding me. That chip compared to a Haswell Pentium is like comparing a covette to a yugo. The fact that desktop Kabini is almost price comparable to a full H81 + Haswell celeron is very strange. The price difference should be far more than that.

And yeah, the power difference is meaningless. This is desktop we're talking about. All of these chips will work fine on a 300W PSU, if there's some dude out there sperging over 35W vs 55W on a CPU? That would be quite interesting. As mentioned before, power differences are meaningful when the differences are vast. When you add a dGPU, the difference is vast and requires a bigger PSU. But Kabini vs BT vs Celeron vs Haswell? These are all within 20-30W of each other and all will work on a 300W PSU. This is a DESKTOP PLATFORM. These power differences could mean something for mobile (as is the intended target for Bay Trail) but is meaningless on the desktop in this context.

I could see Kabini having some uses for things like low-power/SFF/silent home servers and the like. It has virtualization support too, yeah? But as far as a general purpose machine, I agree that it makes next to no sense.

 

[blackened23]

I guess. I think it's perfectly logical to compare a haswell pentium/celeron platform to something like the 760K or FX6300 as I mentioned. I wouldn't blink an eye at those comparisons. In fact, both 760K and the G3220 perform fairly similarly in gaming with a dGPU. Yet I cannot believe there is talk of Kabini in this thread. It simply isn't in the same stratosphere as Haswell pentium or celeron in terms of performance, and the power difference is small and meaningless.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If we're not counting shipping, I'll take that motherboard and processor please.

G1820 for $43.99 + ASRock H81M for $45.99 = $89.98

If you give me a bit, I may be able to find it for less than that shipped. I hope you're bluffing. ^^

I think shipping should be included.

Edit: Points for including a product link to SuperBiiz (Ewiz). Not that many people know that they often have CPUs for a few dollars less than NewGouge.

 

[blackened23]

Shipping is included. Ever heard of shoprunner? Newegg premium? I get free shipping on everything at newegg. I have gotten free 2 day shipping at newegg for the past year and a half. Have an AMEX card? 1 year of free shoprunner, generally has free renewal offers all throughout the year. Net result? Free 2 day shipping at newegg. Then there's the free 30 day trial of shoprunner if you refuse to open an AMEX account. Or you could just sign up for a trial of newegg premium if you don't have an AMEX. Result = free shipping. Of course you could also use amazon prime for free two day shipping as well.

I haven't paid for shipping on any PC parts in the past two years. I don't see why anyone would pay for shipping, excluding specialty next day air orders. I certainly haven't paid for shipping on anything PC related in years, and this is with 2 day shipping as well. I have paid 3.99$ for next day air at amazon a few times though, I admit. 3.99$ for next day air. I'll take it sometimes.

 

[Sweepr]

If we're not counting shipping, I'll take that motherboard and processor please.

G1820 for $43.99 + ASRock H81M for $45.99 = $89.98

If you give me a bit, I may be able to find it for less than that shipped. I hope you're bluffing. ^^

Now that's cheap. Great performance/$ for an entry level system.

 

[Yuriman]

Round two:

H81 motherboard for $39.99 with free shipping + G1820 for $49.99 with free shipping

I'll take that motherboard and processor now.

 

[pw257008]

I guess. I think it's perfectly logical to compare a haswell pentium/celeron platform to something like the 760K or FX6300 as I mentioned. I wouldn't blink an eye at those comparisons. In fact, both 760K and the G3220 perform fairly similarly in gaming with a dGPU. Yet I cannot believe there is talk of Kabini in this thread. It simply isn't in the same stratosphere as Haswell pentium or celeron in terms of performance, and the power difference is small and meaningless.

I agree, on the whole. In a laptop, Core-line Pentium at 1.7-2.2 Ghz makes sense as a comparison vs. Kabini (quad core at 2 with IPC on par with Richland but no major CMT penalty), and Kabini's power consumption advantages (especially at idle and with only 1-2 cores occupied) matter a lot more when battery life matters. But in a desktop? FXs and Richland Athlons make a lot more sense, and have their own sets of advantages vs. the Pentiums, despite the Pentiums' overall IPC lead.

 

[SPBHM]

I have a G1820 and an MSI B85 board, and I considered H81 but I wanted at least the option to go crossfire or SLI. It came out to something like $130 for both.



It's just not a fair comparison especially with wattage. A G1820 at full load is a lot more power hungry than Kabini.


Besides, Kabini hasn't been out long enough to get any price drops whatsoever. The only reason the Haswell Pentiums and Celerons are so cheap is intel is practically giving them away. And if you're going to compare Kabini, look at bay trail, consistently slower than Kabini but intel is labeling it under a sister SKU (Pentium/celeron).

most people considering SLI would not be considering G1820 or AM1, there is no point in bringing more expensive boards that aren't necessary for the G1820 as a negative, it's actually another advantage that it holds compatibility with more expensive stuff, if you want.

the prices and performance are pretty obvious, no need yo say anything else.

I used the dutch site to show that Kabini s power usage is much lower than claimed by some sites as THG who write this about Kabini vs BT :



while the link i posted show that it s rather a sub-6 W difference, this wasnt to show the G/i in bad light, i m fully aware of the set ups and hardware difference but then again if using an efficient PSU for the G/i series i wrote this earliern in this thread :




I guess that we re running in circles since i already answered your question.

you can't make these claims ignoring the other differences in test methodology and hardware, you need to take the same 100w or lower PSU (or high efficiency PSU) and test both the G1820 (with extra care to find an efficient motherboard, since there is more variability with the 1150, and using high end bords is just... wrong)

the Dutch website is only relevant for BT vs Kabini, anything higher is running a completely different setup, and they don't include the g1820 or g3220 anyway,

and even on that case, if you are worried about those tiny differences you have to consider if the BT board and Kabini board they choose are the most representative from each platform,

remember the E-350 reviews? I remember seeing big differences
http://media.bestofmicro.com/J/U/296202/original/image017.png

so you are not bringing any answer to this discussion (G1820 vs Kabini on a low power setup), the best we have to work with is the PClab test (you are probably right in disregarding BT vs Kabini on the pclab test), all of the rest requires a lot of guess and approximation work.

I could see Kabini having some uses for things like low-power/SFF/silent home servers and the like. It has virtualization support too, yeah? But as far as a general purpose machine, I agree that it makes next to no sense.

Kabini is not bad, the problem is the G1820 is much better for most and can even be cheaper in some cases (high priced Am1 and 2.05GHz athlon vs g1820 and ultra cheap h81).... the Kabini CPUs that are actually cheaper than the G1820 pay the price with way lower clock or half the cores unfortunately.

Round two:

H81 motherboard for $39.99 with free shipping + G1820 for $49.99 with free shipping

I'll take that motherboard and processor now.

nice job, it looks it was a pretty realistic guess

 

[TreVader]

If we're not counting shipping, I'll take that motherboard and processor please.

G1820 for $43.99 + ASRock H81M for $45.99 = $89.98

If you give me a bit, I may be able to find it for less than that shipped. I hope you're bluffing. ^^

Add tax, genius. I said if you can get it for $90, not if the list price was under 90.


edit: Also, read the original post. The offer was to SPBHM personally, not for "the first person". I hope you didn't wast too much time


Btw I realize I was off on the price. They must've gone down since i got my G1820/B85.

 

[VirtualLarry]

At the very least, the take-away from that pricing exercise that I got, was that this segment of the computing market is actually becoming very competitive, with a lot of $100-or-less CPU + mobo options for entry-level computer systems. This is a GOOD thing.

As much as I cringe at the E1-xxxx desktop systems sold at Wallyworld and elsewhere, I have to admit, the 2.05Ghz Kabini quad-cores should be a noticeable step upwards in performance. I'm still not sure I would pay $300 for a Pentium / Celeron (Atom) J1900 system (4GB/500GB), like Walmart is currently selling for their cheapest brand-new Desktop (that I could find with a quick perusal). (The J1900 is only dual-core, I think.)

I'm pretty sure AMD will sell a lot of AM1-based components into "developing nations". It's a good thing that the USofA is getting them too. I'm just waiting for the dust to settle on the SSL bug, then I'm planning on ordering one of the AM1 combos from Newegg soon.

 

[Yuriman]

Add tax, genius. I said if you can get it for $90, not if the list price was under 90.


edit: Also, read the original post. The offer was to SPBHM personally, not for "the first person". I hope you didn't wast too much time


Btw I realize I was off on the price. They must've gone down since i got my G1820/B85.

To be fair, I wouldn't pay any tax since neither of those websites has a warehouse in the state I live in. If I ordered it right now, it'd be under $90 for me.

I only spent about 15 minutes looking. ^^

 

[erunion]

Add tax, genius. I said if you can get it for $90, not if the list price was under 90.
.

There are States without sales tax.

 

[pw257008]

There are States without sales tax.

i'm pretty sure this is incorrect. poor people don't have much of a choice, rich people do

 

[AkumaX]

G1830 + H81 for $76 - $10 rebate = $66 AR @ Fry's B&M (in-store only)
http://www.frys.com/product/8057414