Has the right gone completely insane about immigration?

[retrospooty]

i don't know, my kids school system has a huge budget shortage and about half the kids in her class are esl students which cost more and demand more time from teachers.

That does suck, we need to do alot better with Schools. There should be an english requirement to go to an english speaking school period. It slows everyone down. You live here, you need to learn to speak the language. But the budget is out of whack far more than ESL students. Lets look at the cost as of 2012. The Schools get a national average of $10,500 per student per year. In a class of 30 kids, that is $315000. The teacher gets barely more than 10% of that and 85-90% is what? administration? Come on. It is as wasteful a every branch of govt is because the money goes to the wrong pockets.

 

[Moonbeam]

That sounds prejudicial to residents of other continents.

Ask Londo how I am.

 

[BoberFett]

No, it doesn't. That is not where our money goes. Very little of it goes to dealing with undocumented workers and they arent exactly taking good jobs. They are working in fields and washing dishes - doing the jobs we wont do. Have you even been to the USA? Seems like you havent by your comment.

You don't think that paying to educate millions of children of people that pay little or no taxes doesn't affect our education system?

This country spends on average $11K/yr per student. You don't think that a couple of millions children, while born here but who were born to illegal immigrants, has any effect on our education budget?

You think that the jobs we won't do ARE the jobs we won't do because we can't or won't do them for as cheaply as those illegal immigrants will?

The jobs we won't do are the way they are because an illegal can come here and pick vegetables for less than minimum wage. Legally no American IS ALLOWED to do that job for that price.

Fucking hell you're an goddam idiot.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

It's nice to have an enemy that you can point at and say "that's the reason things are shitty." The billionaires who run things don't really want people pointing the finger at them, so they drum up the severity of illegal immigration as though some dirt farmer making $20 a day picking berries is the reason for the rapidly shrinking middle class and the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few plutocrats. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever, but it's easier to sit back and hate the immigrant and fantasize that if only he weren't here, you'd be driving around in a gold-plated Ferrari like the guy who fired you and moved your job overseas. Because the immigrants are the real enemy, not the person exploiting both you and them and laughing all the way to the bank.

Yes, I realize the hypocrisy inherent in denouncing the scapegoating of immigrants while simultaneously scapegoating the wealthy. But in the grand scheme of things, if you legitimately buy into the notion that something is seriously wrong in this country (which I don't), doesn't it make more sense to hold those in power accountable? Immigrants aren't responsible for increased corporatization over the past 3 decades that have seen profits wind up in the hands of the few, wages stagnate for the vast majority and prime jobs offshored because moving the immigrants to the factory is less convenient than moving the factory to the workers who can do your job for pennies. Jose isn't the problem, but the people in power would really appreciate if you could keep thinking he was.

 

[piasabird]

We also need a policy that Immigrants and the first generation children of immigrants should be unauthorized any welfare of financial aid from the government of any kind.

 

[ivwshane]

I'd like to know how many people here think immigration is one of the top issues facing this country?

A lot of people talk about it like it's important but their voting record doesn't support their rhetoric.

 

[retrospooty]

You don't think that paying to educate millions of children of people that pay little or no taxes doesn't affect our education system?

This country spends on average $11K/yr per student. You don't think that a couple of millions children, while born here but who were born to illegal immigrants, has any effect on our education budget?

You think that the jobs we won't do ARE the jobs we won't do because we can't or won't do them for as cheaply as those illegal immigrants will?

The jobs we won't do are the way they are because an illegal can come here and pick vegetables for less than minimum wage. Legally no American IS ALLOWED to do that job for that price.

Fucking hell you're an goddam idiot.

Nice. Try and keep it civil, this is just a political forum and I didn't insult your mother. We both want what is best for the USA correct?

Of course it costs money... It's just a tiny bit of our GDW (lets call that gross domestic waste). As with anything, you want to find the cause, follow the money. You will find it isn't going toward education and social services or even [gasp] brown people [/gasp]. It goes to businesses that are being overpaid for their "patronage" and political favors, but again that is another issue .

Anyhow, its not that illegal immigration isn't a problem, its just not as big as you all seem to want it to be. You are bailing water out of a boat with a teaspoon if you think that. Also, deal with reality. It already happened, and they are already here. We agree we need to fix it and stop the #'s from growing, but you arent going to round up 11 million people ala WW2.

 

[piasabird]

Give them an English test and if they fail they have to go back.

 

[Indus]

Another idea is to send help to some of these countries that these desperate people are coming from. Maybe some federal aid or some careful economic targeted aid might go a long way to improve local conditions.

So you'd rather create a welfare state overseas and ignore the problem of income inequality in other countries rather than locally in your own country?

 

[piasabird]

The federal government should not have to pay for programs for immigrants. Make the cities that are sanctuary cities pay more in taxes to make up the difference.

 

[Indus]

Give them an English test and if they fail they have to go back.

hahahaha

Plenty of Americans write "I will be their" instead of "I will be there". Lots more of this where it comes from and you know it..

Oh and why do Americans drive on a parkway but park in a driveway?

Do you want to send all Americans back too so there's just native americans talking in their "American" language?

 

[Indus]

The federal government should not have to pay for programs for immigrants. Make the cities that are sanctuary cities pay more in taxes to make up the difference.

I don't think they do except in cases of refugees. I've asked plenty of illegals what the US government gives them, their answer "nothing". Why are you here, "It's easy to make money in America".

 

[piasabird]

The USA already is paying other countries some money to help them out. The idea is to lift people up so they can help themselves, so they dont have a reason to come here. We probably already have some aid agencies and independent aid agencies like CARE, the red cross, and churches in some of these other countries.

One approach could also be to pay countries to reinforce their borders. Maybe Mexico would try harder if we spent some money to help them beef up their southern border. There are different ways to approach this. We could even use the existing structure of the UN to help people and to send them to school, build housing and maybe build some factories. Maybe they can use their cheap labor in their own countries and we could import their products. I would rather buy goods from the American continents then import it from China.

 

[retrospooty]

Plenty of Americans write "I will be their" instead of "I will be there". Lots more of this where it comes from and you know it..

I agree with piasabird there... At least that kids that don't speak english shouldn't be in our schools. It's next to impossible for a teacher to not slow the whole class down if someone doesn't speak the same language. Punctuation and knowing "Which witch is which" or knowing "their" from "there" is not the issue. Communicating at all is...

 

[piasabird]

Instead of buying goods from China we could be buying goods from the American Continent.

 

[ivwshane]

No takers on answering this simple question?

I'd like to know how many people here think immigration is one of the top issues facing this country?

A lot of people talk about it like it's important but their voting record doesn't support their rhetoric.

 

[piasabird]

It only takes about 2 or 3 people that don't speak English to significantly drop the GPA of a class. I know in some places they have Spanish only schools. My wife went to grade school and college in South Korea and they taught English there. I went to an international school in Rome Italy when my father was stationed there in the air force for three years.

 

[BoberFett]

It's nice to have an enemy that you can point at and say "that's the reason things are shitty."

You mean like billionaires?

The billionaires who run things don't really want people pointing the finger at them, so they drum up the severity of illegal immigration as though some dirt farmer making $20 a day picking berries is the reason for the rapidly shrinking middle class and the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few plutocrats.

The irony. It is thick.

And so you agree that having millions of people come to the US and drive down wages has ANYTHING to do with the shrinking middle class? It's all them damn billionaires?

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever, but it's easier to sit back and hate the immigrant and fantasize that if only he weren't here, you'd be driving around in a gold-plated Ferrari like the guy who fired you and moved your job overseas. Because the immigrants are the real enemy, not the person exploiting both you and them and laughing all the way to the bank.

Oh my god, the irony keeps getting better. Replace immigrant with billionaire.

Yes, I realize the hypocrisy inherent in denouncing the scapegoating of immigrants while simultaneously scapegoating the wealthy. But in the grand scheme of things, if you legitimately buy into the notion that something is seriously wrong in this country (which I don't), doesn't it make more sense to hold those in power accountable? Immigrants aren't responsible for increased corporatization over the past 3 decades that have seen profits wind up in the hands of the few, wages stagnate for the vast majority and prime jobs offshored because moving the immigrants to the factory is less convenient than moving the factory to the workers who can do your job for pennies. Jose isn't the problem, but the people in power would really appreciate if you could keep thinking he was.

Ah, at least you realize that you're a hypocritical fool.

But you're still not blaming the right person.

There are only a relative handful of billionaires. There are hundreds of millions of consumers.

Who is REALLY responsible for offshoring?

 

[piasabird]

The real issue is we dont enforce our laws because of greed. This is why we need term limits.

 

[retrospooty]

they drum up the severity of illegal immigration as though some dirt farmer making $20 a day picking berries is the reason for the rapidly shrinking middle class and the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few plutocrats. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever, but it's easier to sit back and hate the immigrant and fantasize that if only he weren't here, you'd be driving around in a gold-plated Ferrari like the guy who fired you and moved your job overseas. Because the immigrants are the real enemy, not the person exploiting both you and them and laughing all the way to the bank.

Exactly. "Look, they are the problem is right over there --> These destitute people that cant speak English very well." PERFECT!

As always, follow the money. It isnt going to the illegals. Even 11 million of them collectively - its not going to them.

 

[BoberFett]

Nice. Try and keep it civil, this is just a political forum and I didn't insult your mother. We both want what is best for the USA correct?

Of course it costs money... It's just a tiny bit of our GDW (lets call that gross domestic waste). As with anything, you want to find the cause, follow the money. You will find it isn't going toward education and social services or even [gasp] brown people [/gasp]. It goes to businesses that are being overpaid for their "patronage" and political favors, but again that is another issue .

Anyhow, its not that illegal immigration isn't a problem, its just not as big as you all seem to want it to be. You are bailing water out of a boat with a teaspoon if you think that. Also, deal with reality. It already happened, and they are already here. We agree we need to fix it and stop the #'s from growing, but you arent going to round up 11 million people ala WW2.

Yet again you completely fail to understand. It's not surprising, you began the thread with utter ignorance, you're just keeping it going.

If you owned a business, why would you pay an American $10/hr to do a job when an illegal immigrant will do the same job for $5/hr?

And you believe that immigration has no effect on middle class wages. You like to think you're superior to those "awful Republicans" but you're no better, and certainly not any smarter.

 

[michal1980]

Again, that is backwards. The demand for jobs drove people to come here to fill them and hopefully have a better life. And for the record, no, I don't "want americans to work as dishwashers" I want us to stop acting like our problems are because of immigrants. history people, it need not repeat itself here.

Ok, its not immigrants. Its an oversupply of low skilled labor, that is coming mainly from countries south of our border.

The low wages for these jobs is directly caused by an over abundance of labor.

 

[Slew Foot]

dont forget crowding your hospitals full of people who arent paying. Most lazy ass cupcake millenials "dont want" to do anything more strenuous than living in a parents basement and making facebook posts, so thats where your demand for entry level labor come from.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Ah, at least you realize that you're a hypocritical fool.

But you're still not blaming the right person.

There are only a relative handful of billionaires. There are hundreds of millions of consumers.

Who is REALLY responsible for offshoring?

Illegal immigrants? I have to have someone to scapegoat. Otherwise, I might have to accept that my situation is largely my own doing, and, as a proud American, I'm just not ready for that level of introspection.

 

[retrospooty]

Yet again you completely fail to understand. It's not surprising, you began the thread with utter ignorance, you're just keeping it going.

If you owned a business, why would you pay an American $10/hr to do a job when an illegal immigrant will do the same job for $5/hr?

And you believe that immigration has no effect on middle class wages. You like to think you're superior to those "awful Republicans" but you're no better, and certainly not any smarter.

Again with the insults. You have issues "amigo". You just cant seem to talk politics without acting like an angry child and insulting everyone that thinks differently than you. /shrugs

Anyhow, back on topic, I would pay $10 an hour because its highly illegal to hire an illegal and I would lose my business, but that is me. I didn't say "immigration has no effect on middle class wages" - I am saying its minimal and mostly I am saying we have far bigger problems to worry about. Many many many far bigger problems.