Has Greenspan been discredited?

[Martin]

He seems quite the dominating figure in the financial collapse. Is that not one thing almost everyone can agree on?

 

[Tsavo]

Well...he was an avid fan of Ayn Rand, that should say everything about the man's intellect.

 

[Dari]

The problem is the privatization of profits and the socialization of losses. If we treat regulators and industry the same way we treat the division of church and state we won't have this problem. The revolving door between Wall Street and Washington D.C. makes it impossible for the former to truly experience the 'risk' they like to brag about taking. IMHO, Wall Street should be allowed to do whatever they want so long as there is a powerful regulator to keep tabs on them. A weak regulatory system was what caused this meltdown.

 

[Zorkorist]

Well...he was an avid fan of Ayn Rand, that should say everything about the man's intellect.

No Fan of Ayn Rand would be in Control of Money.

That's just ignorant.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

The problem is the privatization of profits and the socialization of losses. If we treat regulators and industry the same way we treat the division of church and state we won't have this problem. The revolving door between Wall Street and Washington D.C. makes it impossible for the former to truly experience the 'risk' they like to brag about taking. IMHO, Wall Street should be allowed to do whatever they want so long as there is a powerful regulator to keep tabs on them. A weak regulatory system was what caused this meltdown.

False, Dari.

It was too much Government, GIVING money away.

-John

 

[Tsavo]

No Fan of Ayn Rand would be in Control of Money.

That's just ignorant.

-John

Wiki:

In the early 1950s, Greenspan began an association with famed novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand that would last until her death in 1982.[22] He wrote for Rand’s newsletters and authored several essays in her book Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.[30] Rand stood beside him at his 1974 swearing-in as Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers.[22]
Greenspan was introduced to Ayn Rand by his first wife, Joan Mitchell. Although Greenspan was initially a logical positivist,[31] he was converted to Rand's philosophy of Objectivism by her associate Nathaniel Branden. During the 1950s and 1960s Greenspan was a proponent of Objectivism, writing articles for Objectivist newsletters and contributing several essays for Rand's 1966 book Capitalism: the Unknown Ideal including an essay supporting the gold standard.[32][33]
During the 1950s, Greenspan was one of the members of Ayn Rand's inner circle, the Ayn Rand Collective, who read Atlas Shrugged while it was being written. Rand nicknamed Greenspan "the undertaker" because of his penchant for dark clothing and reserved demeanor. Although Greenspan was once recognized as a proponent of laissez-faire capitalism, some Objectivists find his support for a gold standard somewhat incongruous or dubious,[citation needed] given the Federal Reserve's role in America's fiat money system and endogenous inflation. He has come under criticism from Harry Binswanger,[34] who believes his actions while at work for the Federal Reserve and his publicly expressed opinions on other issues show abandonment of Objectivist and free market principles. However, when questioned in relation to this, he has said that in a democratic society individuals have to make compromises with each other over conflicting ideas of how money should be handled. He said he himself had to make such compromises, because he believes that "we did extremely well" without a central bank and with a gold standard.[35] Greenspan and Rand maintained a close relationship until her death in 1982.[22]
In a congressional hearing on October 23, 2008 Greenspan admitted that his free-market ideology shunning certain regulations was flawed.[36]

 

[Zorkorist]

Dude. While I don't know Greenstein, I do know Ayn Rand.

And Greenstein, was no, Ayn Rand.

-John

 

[Dari]

False, Dari.

It was too much Government, GIVING money away.

-John

Why do you think that is? A weak regulatory system coupled with a pliant Federal Reserve means Wall Street getting whatever it wants from Washington D.C..

 

[Zorkorist]

Wall Street doesn't care about Washington, DC, until Washington, DC gives it reason to care.

Of course it is Governments fault.

All they do is meddle...

-John

 

[Dari]

Wall Street doesn't care about Washington, DC, until Washington, DC gives it reason to care.

Of course it is Governments fault.

All they do is meddle...

-John

...

 

[Zorkorist]

I'm done.

Did you have something to add?

-John

 

[jhu]

Wall Street doesn't care about Washington, DC, until Washington, DC gives it reason to care.

Of course it is Governments fault.

All they do is meddle...

-John

Like how there was no meddling in derivatives and credit default swaps? And when it all collapsed they came begging to be taken over.

 

[Dari]

I'm done.

Did you have something to add?

-John

Nah, you've completely answered all my questions. Your insight was so cunning yet masterful, deep and exhiliterating. I don't know what I'm doing working on Wall Street when I should be listening to Zorkorist. I guess my employers are angels after all...

 

[Zorkorist]

Like how there was no meddling in derivatives and credit default swaps? And when it all collapsed they came begging to be taken over.

Ya know... it's like when a 30 year old man molests a 15 year old girl.

One, is free and easy and doing what she feels right.

The other is tainted, savage, a beast, and attacks her.

-John

 

[sandorski]

He said he was wrong. I think he discredited himself, willingly.

 

[Miramonti]

False, Dari.

It was too much Government, GIVING money away.

-John

Dari is right. The only thing wall street (investment firms in general) are capable of without oversight and regulation is corruption, exploitation, manipulation, and deception.

There probably hasn't ever been a single investment vehicle or trading mechanism created that's shown it can exist without these destructive influences while at the same time free from oversight and regulation from an outside body designed to help prevent extensive fraud, and wall street proves it time and time again.

 

[Zorkorist]

You are so wrong jjsole.

A Bank, is an example of an Investment Firm.

I'm reminded of the movie "It's a Wonderfl Life."

I hate that movie.

-John

 

[Holst]

Dari is right. The only thing wall street (investment firms in general) are capable of without oversight and regulation is corruption, exploitation, manipulation, and deception.

Companies are driven to these measures when they have the government breathing down their neck with regulations and restrictions. If you simply let the free market take it's course, these problems are naturally resolved and probably wouldn't occur in the first place.

There probably hasn't ever been a single investment vehicle or trading mechanism created that's shown it can exist without these destructive influences while at the same time free from oversight and regulation from an outside body designed to help prevent extensive fraud, and wall street proves it time and time again.

There hasn't been a investment vehicle or trading mechanism that could exist free from regulation because that has never happened. Government has always had a role; government has always stopped these firms from performing efficiently. The problem is Washington feeling that it needs to control something that shouldn't be.

 

[Dari]

Companies are driven to these measures when they have the government breathing down their neck with regulations and restrictions. If you simply let the free market take it's course, these problems are naturally resolved and probably wouldn't occur in the first place.


There hasn't been a investment vehicle or trading mechanism that could exist free from regulation because that has never happened. Government has always had a role; government has always stopped these firms from performing efficiently. The problem is Washington feeling that it needs to control something that shouldn't be.

Money is as essential a utility as water and energy. It should require heavy government involvement.

 

[Zorkorist]

LOL, Dari...

It's food (and water), and shelter.

Those are essentials.

Your utilities are some little fabrication of your mind.

-John

 

[jhu]

Companies are driven to these measures when they have the government breathing down their neck with regulations and restrictions. If you simply let the free market take it's course, these problems are naturally resolved and probably wouldn't occur in the first place.

Companies are out to make as much money as they can legally do so (and sometimes illegally). Look at the derivatives market to see what an unregulated market looks like. And look how hard it collapsed, nearly taking down every major bank with it.

There hasn't been a investment vehicle or trading mechanism that could exist free from regulation because that has never happened. Government has always had a role; government has always stopped these firms from performing efficiently. The problem is Washington feeling that it needs to control something that shouldn't be.

So you think things like insider trading is okay or stock pumping via misleading information? 1929 called and they would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Did Greenspan ever apologize to Brooksley Born (or whatever that woman's name is)?

 

[Tsavo]

Did Greenspan ever apologize to Brooksley Born (or whatever that woman's name is)?

Nope.

 

[Zorkorist]

If you want to dance with the devil, who am I to stop you?

I know next to nothing about derivative trading.

So, you are telling me, that my Government (which theoretically knew about derivative trading) analyzed derivative trading, and decided it was fine.

Or, did they not understand derivitave trading either? My Government.

Meanwhile, the fucks doing Derivitaive trading rack up some losses, and come crying home to the Federal Government's tit.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Did Greenspan ever apologize to Brooksley Born (or whatever that woman's name is)?

Yeah, but it was whispered.

-John