Has Automobile Engine Technology Really Improved Over the Last 30 Years?

[Doggiedog]

I know lots of strides have been made in emissions and reliability but has it seems cars still get around 20-30 mpg while HP has actually decreased from old designs.

What do you think?

 

[Alexan1207]

well they have cars that get 60+ mpg but I think the gas companies have a enfluence in the production of engines

 

[chiwawa626]

Boycott toyota

 

[imported_vr6]

<< Boycott toyota >>



Another person brainwashed by that sucker jesse jackson.

 

[bigd480]

improvement is a relative term... they have improved a lot in terms of emissions, safety, and luxury... but to get the emissions down they had to sacrifice performance in some cases...

 

[Farbio]

while there may have been cars that got 20-30 mpg 10-20 years ago, the amount of emissions being given off by the recent car is 1/100th of what the car 20 years ago gave off. the mpg statistic is not always how you judge a car. in the same token, the only cars getting 20-30 mpg 20 years ago were the micro sized economy cars, while today, many midsize sedans can deliver that type of fuel economy now a days. there are definite improvements, you just have to look beyond fuel economy as the only factor.

 

[cjchaps]

There have been a lot of improvements to get more HP and Torque out of engines. For instance, vTec, turbos, and superchargers will give you great HP increases while using right around the same amount of gas as an engine without those additions. Also, Hybrid cars are actually a reality, which is a big improvement.

 

[Koing]

yes definately.

I read that this VW Lupo that can do 100+ mpg. If driven by a good driver it can do 118mpg. But ir your like a normal driver it can do about 104mpg. Still a lot of miles there. If I can remember its a 1.4 disel and has no luxeries of electric windows and stuff on to cut the weight.

 

[Doggiedog]

Well, I guess I meant gasoline powered cars. I know diesel has made a lot of improvements. I've heard in Europe they have diesel powered cars that get 80 mpg which put out less pollutants than gasoline powered ones that can also accelerate rather quickly too (0-60 in 8 secs).

 

[fastz28]

I have to disagree. My Z28 has 300+ hp yet I get 28+ mpg on the freeway. Show me a car from 30 yrs ago that can do that.

 

[Haircut]

Take a look at the BMW M3, 343hp from a 3.2 litre normally aspirated straight-6, cars nowadays develop a lot more power for their engine size. 30 years ago I doubt if there were that many performance cars that got 60 or 70 hp per litre, now that is the norm for your average family car.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

The class of cars that got 10-15MPG now gets 15-20, the engines are cleaner, smoother, and more reliable. Less regular maintenance is required due to the lack of points, choke adjustments, introduction of fuel injection (electronic), and long life spark plugs.

When you compare power you must compensate for the gross vs. net ratings. 400HP now is alot more than 400HP in the 60's.

Part of the reason why gas milage hasn't really improved like it should have is that cars have gotten heavier (not lighter). Although todays cars have light weight composite materials, those materials are packed in tightly in the form of safety equipment, emmisions equipment, accessories, and insulation.

When you see that 4000Lb chevelle rolling down the road, look at the 4000LB SC430.

 

[Thegonagle]

They used to rate gross HP. Now they rate net HP. What's the difference? Gross HP is the power that the engine would produce without the water pump, alternator, power steering pump, catalytic converter, or even any exhaust system what so ever. Net HP is the more accurate measurement of engine output, because it is configured how it would be in the car. Look at 0-60 and ¼ mile times of old and new cars, along with weight, particularly on older muscle cars. Yes, horsepower has indeed increased, along with emissions and fuel economy.

 

[Windogg]

Actually horsepower and torque have INCREASED over the years especially on a per liter basis. Today we measure horsepower at the wheels. Back then horsepower was measured by putting an engine on a teststand minus body, frame, headers, muffler, and transmission. When then actually put all those items around the engine, actual power was a fraction of what was claimed.

Windogg

EDIT: DAMN YOU Garfang!!! Beat me!!!

 

[Doggiedog]

<I have to disagree. My Z28 has 300+ hp yet I get 28+ mpg on the freeway. Show me a car from 30 yrs ago that can do that.>

This is what I am talking about. Everyone seems to rag on the old pushrod engine technology from long ago but it is still here alive and kicking and still powering cars these days. They get excellent mileage and HP and still rival &quot;modern&quot; engines. So has technology really improved?

 

[yoyo25]

I would have to agree that Americans cars are the worst gas guzzlers and are generally crap...can't go wrong with a nice japanese or german car!

 

[LAUST]

Actually most of this is all old Idea's Forced induction has been around since before the 50's.

There is a couple new things to the engine industry,

Ignition Systems (Distributerless), The Emissions (ODB2 especially), Fuel Injection and Hybrids

That Ignition and ODB2 combination has a lot to do with Fast28's car, the LS1 is an awesome motor but still old concept, and it's a good one, OHV engines still have the crown in gas motors for the better Torque curve.

So as far as what controls the motor it's changed a bunch, as far as the internals, it's still pretty much the same. The motor now found in the Trailblazer and Envoy is a very old desighn just cleaned up a lot infact it's a 40's desighn.

 

[Thegonagle]

Diesels put out less of some pollutants, and more of others, compared to gasoline engines. The diesel soot is actually thought to be carcinogenic. They are working on ultra clean burning diesel fuels, but currently, modern ULEV/SULEV gasoline engines are generally thought of as ?cleaner? than any diesel currently available.

 

[JonnyDuke]

DEMON-XANTH...

I think what you are refering to is the power-to-weight ratio, which has changed dramatically over the past 20 yrs. Cars that had 400 hp then weighed close to 4000 pounds. Now some weigh in at under 3500. There are always exceptions to the rule but for the most part I would say that cars have improved. The real problem is that manufacturers sometimes use lower quality parts where they don't think it will matter and it ends up making a huge difference.

 

[LAUST]

<< Take a look at the BMW M3, 343hp from a 3.2 litre normally aspirated straight-6, cars nowadays develop a lot more power for their engine size. 30 years ago I doubt if there were that many performance cars that got 60 or 70 hp per litre, now that is the norm for your average family car. >>



Still same technology used as back then, now we just ship cars with more expensive parts that allow higher compression is all. All a Forced induction system does is basically for all purposes raise that compression. You slap some good heads and pistons on a 429 Hemi you'll produce over 500HP without a prob.

 

[RaoulDuke]

<< There have been a lot of improvements to get more HP and Torque out of engines. For instance, vTec, turbos, and superchargers will give you great HP increases while using right around the same amount of gas as an engine without those additions. Also, Hybrid cars are actually a reality, which is a big improvement. >>



variable valve timing blah blah blah, and forced induction have been around for a long long time

 

[Syringer]

Definitely, now they have superchargers, turbochargers, etc... Just take a look at GM's new inline six-cylinder which yields more power and better fuel economy than most V8 commpetitors. You can find this in the new 2002 GMC Envoy, Chevy Trailblazer, and Olds Bravada !

 

[Doggiedog]

I believe superchargers have been around since the 20's.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

yoyo25: don't even go there.

Jonnyduke: No, I am referring to the fact that weight has yet to really change (with SUVs being overly popular, it's going up). The power comment was a seperate argument.

 

[LAUST]

and forced induction have been around for a long long time

I used to have a site that had info on where they started, my blower type (Twin Screw) was actually used in Locamotives, They would Stack em ontop of each other and make insane amounts of positive boost displacement.

The Centrifical dates back to atleast the 40's when used in Aircraft to make them achieve higher altitude.