Has anyone replaced a patio door with a regular door?

[Red Squirrel]

I have a patio door that leaks air like a sieve and is generally, super terrible R value, if there even is one. Sliding doors in general are notorious for that. In terms of space to bring stuff in and out of the house they don't really offer much more than a regular door. Yeah you get extra glass to look outside, but other than that, I'm thinking of just putting a nice door, something of good quality with good thermal value and decent size glass so I can still see outside. Of course I'd have to find matching bricks which could maybe be an issue but I'd improvise that part. Could always rebrick that one section.

Only issue I see is my dining room table would be in the way of opening the door, so I'd have to make it open outside, but then the hinges are exposed, making it ridiculously easy to break in without even making any noise. I have an alarm system though, and I could always figure something out to lock the hinges in.

Any reason why this would be a bad idea to do? I also thought of french doors, but then ask myself, how often will I actually ever need to open both? Probably never, so why add another potential avenue for heat loss. A simple closing door will guarantee a better seal. I would loose the ability to let air in the house on cool summer days though. But that's like, 2 months of the year. I have other windows I can open.

 

[boomerang]

You've listed numerous reasons why it would be a bad idea and then rationalized to yourself why it wouldn't be a bad idea. Why not just replace the slider with a new, more energy efficient model? No brick, no hinges, no security, no dining table, no airflow issues.

 

[zardthebuilder]

i think you need to think about the impact on when you want to resell. do people in your area prefer french doors, sliding doors, or single door? around here, they love french doors. how about brightness? do folks prefer more light or less light? R value is important, but i don't recall my wife ever caring about R value when we were house shopping. mismatched bricks sounds horrible.

 

[Greenman]

The security issue is solved by using a hinge with a non rising pin. It has a set screw on the inside that has to be removed before the hinge pin will come out. All the rest is the simple mechanics of replacing a door. I'd recommend a fiberglass door.

 

[NoTine42]

Another thing to check, standard doors are often a shorter rough opening than a patio door or French door. (At least in home improvement stores in the states)

 

[IamDavid]

I absolutely despise sliding patio doors! I ripped mine out the first week we moved into our new home. Replaced with French doors and couldn't be happier. French doors are awesome, don't over think it all. You may never think you'll need both open but its damn good the first time you need a wider door.
If "security" is the reason not to go with French doors I'd suggest moving neighborhoods before spending money to upgrade your home.

Total costs to replete was $1450.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I have some friends who have a inward swinging door and it is a huge hassle as it hits their table.

 

[Red Squirrel]

i think you need to think about the impact on when you want to resell. do people in your area prefer french doors, sliding doors, or single door? around here, they love french doors. how about brightness? do folks prefer more light or less light? R value is important, but i don't recall my wife ever caring about R value when we were house shopping. mismatched bricks sounds horrible.

Most people don't care until they see the temp drop to 15C 10 minutes after the furnace turns off. They make it on Holmes on Homes show and the house ends up being a disaster because it "looked nice" but everything else is wrong. It's what's behind the walls that matters more than the looks.

The more I think of it though the french doors may be the easiest way to go. I will buy from a real window and door place and not the hardware store. R value is my #1 priority but still want something functional and decent looking. How do those typically work, do they have a bar in the middle so the doors seal properly on something? My main purpose for replacing this is to increase R value and air seal, so I don't want to just introduce another thing that will lose heat.

Either way I would need to do brick work as my patio door is a non standard size. I got a few estimates and they all said there would be some work to do because they don't make them that size. It's more than likely full of mold and rot in that general area so I see myself rebuilding that entire wall. Will more than likely have to rebrick anyway.

Good to know about the locking hinges though if I go with a door that opens outwards. I pretty much have to go with that because the table will be in the way. There's thieves everywhere, moving does not change that. You can't stop them from getting in but can at least make it harder and noisier. Have an alarm system anyway so not all that worried.

I don't have any money for this now anyway, mostly just want to get others' opinions. I'll have to check a window and door place and may get more ideas there too. I have a door on the kitchen side that also has terrible R value, it's a brand new door too so I hate to replace it but it's just really bad. So probably replace that one too. I've clocked negative temperatures on it with my temp gun.

 

[Micrornd]

Look for a window and door shop in your area, and they should be able to supply a set of custom made French doors to fit your existing opening at a price that is cheaper than a standard set plus the additional brick and framing work.
And they normally can handle the installation also as a package deal.

 

[DrPizza]

Look for a window and door shop in your area, and they should be able to supply a set of custom made French doors to fit your existing opening at a price that is cheaper than a standard set plus the additional brick and framing work.
And they normally can handle the installation also as a package deal.

I'll second that - while box stores only stock certain sizes, your "non-standard" size may not be as non-standard as you think. And, French doors.

Not necessarily endorsing this company. Simply using this as an example:
http://www.pella.com/doors/explore-door-styles/hinged-patio-doors.aspx?StyleID=10
Note on the bottom - standard and custom sizes.

 

[NoTine42]

TIL there are really fun patio door operation mechanisms
Tilt and turn
Lift and slide
Tilt and slide
Fd and slide
http://www.gaulhoferwindows.com/windows-and-doors/mechanism/tilt-and-slide/?nomobile

This place talking about their tilt and slide
http://www.zolawindows.com/portfolio/tilt-slide-doors/

Tilt-Slide doors offer the tightest air seal of all patio doors, and are therefore preferred by many passive (solar) house owners

 

[Red Squirrel]

Hmm the tilt and slide looks interesting. That would have a seal pretty much equivalent to a regular door if it works the way I think. I'll have to check out some window and door places here and see what they have.

There's a place that used to manufacture locally so I'd know it's quality stuff and that they could do custom, but I heard they don't any more. Though if I can get a size close enough to what I have then I can deal with the surrounding brick. I can always try to do something fancy around it with a different colour brick that has a decent contrast.

I'll probably end up pulling the old door myself so I can fix the framing around it. Probably full of rot and mold. If I don't end up buying a new door this summer I might just do something temporary or just close it in for the winter. From a R value point of view it's almost tempting to just close it in completely... but I kinda want it to access the BBQ for the few weeks in summer that we have.

 

[Micrornd]

There's a place that used to manufacture locally so I'd know it's quality stuff and that they could do custom, but I heard they don't any more.

Check with them first.
It doesn't matter whether they still do customs, they will know who in the area does and also the quality of their work since they used to be in competition with other shops.

A good shop won't bad mouth another as most go by the "if you can't say anything good" adage.
Most custom job shops are honorable and will give you an honest assessment of their competitors.
There is a lot of respect for craftsmanship even in today's world.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah definitely will check with them anyway.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I have French doors in my dining room. They open to the inside and one of them has a locking pin that keeps it from opening unless I unlock it from the bottom and top.

Where the doors come together, the seal is pretty bad. Weather stripping there needs to be replaced and it leaks air worse than a new sliding door. I think age or the door and weather stripping, not type of door is the biggest factor in air leaks.

You said you don't believe you'll have space for the door to open to the inside....for that reason, you should stick with a sliding door. Either replace the weather stripping or replace the door if you want more R-value. You can go with thicker glass and get a custom size to fit your opening. I suggest having someone else do the install unless you want to deal with siding/drywall and getting it to fit/look right when you're done.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Oh wow I forgot about this, I had ended up just going with another patio door, but I removed the old one myself and rebuilt the opening to fit a standard size door. Saved myself about a grand doing that as custom doors are more expensive.

The newer patio doors are really efficient so figured it would be good enough to stick with a sliding door. Got a new front window at same time too. Our winter was not really cold so hard to tell if it really made a difference but I'll see next year if we get a more normal winter.

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