Has anyone here owned a Power Commander for a motorcycle?

[SAWYER]

I found a good deal on a Power Commander II USb for 150 and should have it next week sometime. I was curious about people's experiences with it

 

[Greenman]

I ran a PC-III on my V-Rod for a while, they work. The problem I had was finding a good map, there weren't any. The common solution for any problem when running a PC-III is to just dump more fuel in the engine. I was getting good power, but couldn't go a 100 miles on a tank of gas. The added cost of a dyno tune tipped the scales in favor of dumping it. The 6 bills you pay for a PC-III and a tune is the same price as a PC-V with autotune, it's a no brainer.
What I ended up doing was running voltage dividers on my O2 sensors, that get's me a 13.8:1 afr in closed loop, the bike runs great and I can go a 140 miles on a tank of gas.

If your bike has O2 sensors and a reasonable exhaust system, you don't really need a PC-III.

 

[SAWYER]

Well it has an aftermarket vance and hines and I was told by a mechanic that I need a PC or something similar

 

[Greenman]

Well it has an aftermarket vance and hines and I was told by a mechanic that I need a PC or something similar

What year is the bike?

 

[Jeff7181]

I have one on my ZX6R in preparation for future mods and a custom tune. It's well known among ZX6R owners that Dynojet's maps are quite rich so hardly anybody uses them except as temporary protection after they do some significant mods until they can get to a shop to get a custom tune.

I don't know if the same is true for other bikes, but as a general rule for ZX6R's, if you've done more than a slip-on exhaust and high flow air filter you should get a Power Commander and a custom tune. The stock fuel delivery seems to work fine, albeit not optimal for just a slip-on and air filter.

The general consensus also seems to be that if you're looking for more performance in terms of acceleration, changing sprockets gives you much more bang for your buck.

 

[SAWYER]

2003 fatboy

 

[Greenman]

2003 fatboy

Yup, you need a PC-III and a tune.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Personally, I dislike all "piggyback" units, regardless of make or application. Yes, they work, but I can't help but look at them as something of a makeshift solution as opposed to a "proper" remap.

The Harley Super Tuner, which can re-map the stock computer, runs about $450 for an unused setup (including software and cables) on everyone's favorite auction site, which is only about $100 more than a power commander III and the Super Tuner will allow complete tuning rather than limited adjustment within certain ranges. The factory tuner can adjust everything, but a piggyback is necessarily limited. I'm always of the "if you're going to do it, do it all the way" persuasion.

ZV

 

[Jeff7181]

Personally, I dislike all "piggyback" units, regardless of make or application. Yes, they work, but I can't help but look at them as something of a makeshift solution as opposed to a "proper" remap.

The Harley Super Tuner, which can re-map the stock computer, runs about $450 for an unused setup (including software and cables) on everyone's favorite auction site, which is only about $100 more than a power commander III and the Super Tuner will allow complete tuning rather than limited adjustment within certain ranges. The factory tuner can adjust everything, but a piggyback is necessarily limited. I'm always of the "if you're going to do it, do it all the way" persuasion.

ZV

Not a very significant limitation in my opinion. My Power Commander is capable of doubling the fuel delivery and I can't see "only" doubling the amount of fuel being delivered as a limitation even if I turbocharge the thing. Granted I can't adjust ignition timing without another module which is yet another piggyback device, both of which could be replaced by just upgrading or reprogramming the stock ECU. Not a whole lot to gain in my opinion... getting the air/fuel ratio adjusted properly is top priority.

 

[Greenman]

Personally, I dislike all "piggyback" units, regardless of make or application. Yes, they work, but I can't help but look at them as something of a makeshift solution as opposed to a "proper" remap.

The Harley Super Tuner, which can re-map the stock computer, runs about $450 for an unused setup (including software and cables) on everyone's favorite auction site, which is only about $100 more than a power commander III and the Super Tuner will allow complete tuning rather than limited adjustment within certain ranges. The factory tuner can adjust everything, but a piggyback is necessarily limited. I'm always of the "if you're going to do it, do it all the way" persuasion.

ZV

Everything has good points and bad. The SERT can indeed adjust everything in the Harley ECM, but you still need a dyno to do it right. So that $450 SERT actually costs $750. If you make any other changes, it's back to the dyno. It's an excellent tool, but I wouldn't buy anything that didn't come with wide band O2 sensors. He could also install an aftermarket ECM (ThunderMax) that has wide band O2 sensors, and have all the control that comes with the SERT, and a bike that tunes itself, cost is around $1000, and you can change anything whenever you want without needing a dyno tune. The other big plus of the self tuners is that your bike always runs great, whereas bikes with a static map are subject performance degradation due to environmental changes. He could use the MasterTune, it's around $450, does everything the SERT will do, including a tune that's every bit as good as a dyno, but it takes a lot of time riding around with a laptop plugged into your bike to build the VE tables you need to tune it. Of the add on boxes, the PC-V is hands down the most robust unit, it self tunes, you can run 2 different maps and switch while riding, and you can add a screen that provides a wealth of information about how your bike is running. It is an add on unit, but it's a very robust add on unit that has a proven history of performance and dependability.

If he just want's his bike to run pretty good, the PC-III and a downloaded map will do the trick, there are hundreds of maps for the air cooled Harley's floating around, I'm sure he can find one that's good enough. At $150, it's pretty hard to beat the price.

 

[Greenman]

Not a very significant limitation in my opinion. My Power Commander is capable of doubling the fuel delivery and I can't see "only" doubling the amount of fuel being delivered as a limitation even if I turbocharge the thing. Granted I can't adjust ignition timing without another module which is yet another piggyback device, both of which could be replaced by just upgrading or reprogramming the stock ECU. Not a whole lot to gain in my opinion... getting the air/fuel ratio adjusted properly is top priority.

In the V-Rod world, I've never run across anyone who's benefited from timing changes, unless they were running 104 octane fuel.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Not a very significant limitation in my opinion. My Power Commander is capable of doubling the fuel delivery and I can't see "only" doubling the amount of fuel being delivered as a limitation even if I turbocharge the thing. Granted I can't adjust ignition timing without another module which is yet another piggyback device, both of which could be replaced by just upgrading or reprogramming the stock ECU. Not a whole lot to gain in my opinion... getting the air/fuel ratio adjusted properly is top priority.

True, but I have an inherent distrust of anything that is intentionally designed to "fool" the main ECU. It'll get the job done, but I think there are ways that are generally better, or at least more completely flexible.

Everything has good points and bad. The SERT can indeed adjust everything in the Harley ECM, but you still need a dyno to do it right. So that $450 SERT actually costs $750.

Actually, no. The SERT has 107 canned maps as of my slightly out of date version and it's quite easy to find one that will suit any common setup and many uncommon ones, no need for a dyno run. And the data logging allows custom tuning via road testing without a dyno if you really want to get into things.

Yes, it doesn't self-tune like some highly custom ECUs that are set up to read from wideband sensors can do, but shy of that it's far more flexible than anything else out there, especially considering its price point. The MasterTune is great, but it's essentially the same offering as the SERT, the capabilities are essentially equal.

I'm not saying that the piggyback units aren't good. They work and they do their job. I just prefer to let the ECU work without anything intercepting its signals and re-routing them.

ZV

 

[hanoverphist]

my stepdad runs them on all 3 of his harleys, i dont know which model tho. he is a stickler for details, so he did all kinds of research on maps for them, tried out a bunch of different ones and came up with a good one he liked. hes also loaded, so he dynos on a whim and has it tuned for peak. he did have an issue with one he got for his ultra classic, had to send it back like 4 times before he got one he was happy with.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

A pc2? Can you get a pc3 or pc5 for your bike? I don't know much about the pc2 but I have a pc3 on my zx14. I would suggest one on any bike. It's good to know the air/fuel ratio is right and your bike is performing at it's max. A bad air fuel ratio can make your bike run bad and could potentially damage your engine. They are basically plug and play. Just plug it up and load your map from your computer to your power commander. For best performance have it dynotuned. I had mine tuned and I got some good gains. A few horses here or there but worth every penny of the $257 I paid for it.

 

[SAWYER]

PcIII usb

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

PcIII usb

Same one I have. Make sure it's not the ex powercommander. That's the California edition which neuters you. I paid $160 for mine. $140-$160 seems to be in the used price range. Get it.

 

[DVad3r]

Is that Fatboy EFI or Carb? If it's carbed I'm not sure you need a tuner, maybe just reconfigure/upgrade/rejet the carbs. Check to see how your bike is running now, pull out the spark plugs and look at them. If they are white then your bike is running lean. If they are bronze it's running good. If they are black it's running rich.

My friends that have older HD's don't run any tuners and have custom pipes and their bikes run good.

Also you should check out www.hdforums.com and ask around there, you will find better info.

I personally run a Thunder Max ECU with Auto Tune on my V-Rod and it runs good. It says it supports 01 HD's and up. If you got the system you would have to add oxygen sensor bungs into your pipes which is an easy process. The system is pricey but it's one of the best, it's direct competitor is the PCV with Auto Tune.

http://www.thunder-max.com/

 

[SAWYER]

It is EFI

 

[DVad3r]

Check out the PCV or T-Max systems with Auto Tune. You can get them for $ 600-700, and they will take care of all your needs.

You can go your route and get a cheap PCIII, then get a map and hope it works great for your bike/pipe setup, but if it runs like shit you will need a dyno. If you get unlucky the cost of the entire ordeal will cost you about the same as an auto tune system and you will never have to see a dyno, not to mention have a pretty good tune all the time regardless of the air temp outside, elevation, etc.

If you are interested in any of the systems there is a guy on the V-Rod forum that gives great prices and he can hook you up.

 

[DVad3r]

n/m just read that you already bought a pc3.