Question Has anyone dropped x86/MS/Linux for M4?

[fkoehler]

I'm currently having a crisis of faith, considering not getting a MC 9700x deal and just going with a base Mac Mini w/M4.

Pretty much done with gaming for the most part and really need a decent system for general use and programming. While I crave 8/12/16-core Ryzen, I don't have a gaming addiction or heavy-duty use case to make even a plausible excuse to myself.
So I've been considering avoiding the DIY and hassle and just getting a 16/32gb Mini, and dealing with OS X instead of Mint.

From YT it looks like CrossOver would allow me to game decently at 1080p for the occasional itch.

My biggest concern is how is OS X, as I haven't used it since my wife's old 2008 macbook died 10 years ago.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Familiarize yourself with the software tools available under MacOS and then decide for yourself whether they work for you. If not then stick with x86/Linux.

 

[poke01]

I'm currently having a crisis of faith, considering not getting a MC 9700x deal and just going with a base Mac Mini w/M4.

Pretty much done with gaming for the most part and really need a decent system for general use and programming. While I crave 8/12/16-core Ryzen, I don't have a gaming addiction or heavy-duty use case to make even a plausible excuse to myself.
So I've been considering avoiding the DIY and hassle and just getting a 16/32gb Mini, and dealing with OS X instead of Mint.

From YT it looks like CrossOver would allow me to game decently at 1080p for the occasional itch.

My biggest concern is how is OS X, as I haven't used it since my wife's old 2008 macbook died 10 years ago.

You can always wait for Asahi Linux to become available for M4 and then move? 6-8 months ETA.

Asahi Linux

asahilinux.org

I personally would try macOS at the your local Microcentre/Apple store. Especially if you haven’t used it for 10 years

 

[Gideon]

My biggest concern is how is OS X, as I haven't used it since my wife's old 2008 macbook died 10 years ago.

If most you do is developing and you don't game, I can easily recommend it.

Macos still has it's quirks but it's gotten better and it's configurable enough that the experience can be quite similar to Linux.

Some software you'll probably need:

File managing:
Finder works, but can be very unintuitive. If you have used Norton Commander style managers before (Total Commander, etc), i highly recommend Commander One. It's a very nice experience and just works, can't recommend it enough.

Terminal and Shell:
The default terminal experience isn't great IMO, but there are plenty of other options. The setup I'd recommend is still: iterm2 + zsh + oh my zsh. This guide seems accurate.

Package manager:
1. There is no built-in package manager, but homebrew is the de-facto standard and works totally fine (and is super easy to set up):

The rest ...
You'll also need Xcode and Xcode Command Line Tools for many things but these are easy to set up. Here is a very opinionated guide that among other things guides how to do it, but IMO it has lots of personal perferences among other points I wouldn't follow. So it's a good resource to go through (regarding mouse config, etc) but i wouldn't do half the things he mentions there.

Macos Sequoia now also finally has native snapping , so you don't need to install anything for that anymore. Previously the best free software for window snapping was Rectangle.

So, some things take time to get used to and others you'll probably want to change immediately (e.g. mouse scrolling direction, and sensitivity, etc), but overall, once configured it's very usable. Unless you do some very low level systems programming (linux or x86 specific) , it's honestly very similar to linux. The terminal is similar, most of the command-line tools are also there (or direct substitutes). I've developed in Rust, Go, Java, Node, Ruby, Elixir excosystems, and it's "just pretty much linux" as far as programming is concerned.

TL;DR:

The dev-experience needs some customisation and getting familiar to, but the machines themselves are crazy fast and quiet for dev-work. If you have no use for a huge desktop, I'd go for the mini.

 

[Nothingness]

I second @Gideon experience. I have switched from Linux to macOS some months ago for my work machine, after more than 30 years of UNIX/Linux use. For a development machine, I won't look back.

If you are not doing any development, then you'll have to list the applications that matter to you and see if there's any equivalent on macOS.

 

[fkoehler]

Thanks for the comments.
Not a Dev, just looking to get back to some embedded and desktop application fun.
Seems like there are enough FOSS options for Lisp and Go, etc if XCode isn't my cup of tea.
Really interested in ML ATM, and the M4 seems decently powerful enough and Apple's take on it should have some unique paths considering Apple is Apple.
Potentially being able to knock out some apps for my phone 7's NFC for local controllers is also something I just realized....

I think you've all helped me make up my mind, caveats not withstanding.
At the very worst, if I find it unbearable for some reason I can offload it pretty easily for very close to the $500 I expect to pay for it and get an AMD bundle from MC.

Thanks!

 

[Doug S]

If you are not doing any development, then you'll have to list the applications that matter to you and see if there's any equivalent on macOS.

You might be able to keep using the same Windows applications if there is no good Mac equivalent, so long as they aren't something you use all the time, via VMware Fusion (which is free for personal use) which would allow you to run ARM Windows, which will run x86 Windows applications.

Obviously there's a performance hit, so whether that's feasible or not depends on how performance sensitive a given application is, how much faster M4 is than you came from, and how often you need to use that application (i.e. you might be willing to put up with it performing a bit slower if you don't run it that often or for that long)

 

[Gideon]

Obviously there's a performance hit, so whether that's feasible or not depends on how performance sensitive a given application is, how much faster M4 is than you came from, and how often you need to use that application (i.e. you might be willing to put up with it performing a bit slower if you don't run it that often or for that long)

I wouldn't worry about the perf hit as much as the available RAM, given he seems to be going with the 16GB M4.

Emulation / virtualization (particularily the ARM -> WARM -> x86 kind) tends to gulp it up.

I remember, when I first skoped the viability of ARM macs as work-machines in our company. It was in late 2020 with the release of the M1 Mini. I asked for the 16GB version but still managed to fill up the memory and swap (until it complained to close some apps) often enough. This was the biggest inconvenience I encountered (usually when using projects with multiple x86 docker containers, and lots of other stuff). Other than some teething issues and lack of native arm apps (stuff that was resolved pretty quckly) the experience was surprisingly good. Once i got my 14" 32GB M1 Pro macbook a while later I really had no other major issues remaining.

BTW I'm still heavily invested in the x86 ecosystem as well (and not just gaming at home). Some clients just require windows (corporate policy, VPN configs, etc), thus I also have another work laptop a the 14" Thinkpad T14s with the Ryzen 6850U, 32GB of ram and OLED screen (which is glorious and blows even the mac miniled out of the water) I use both, pretty much daily and you can get work done on both.

If I had to keep one though, it would have to be the mac. Even when using linux, the Lenovo's keyboard and trackpad are lacking and it's ever slow slightly hotter and noisier (for similar, but a bit less performance).

My ideal imaginary laptop would probably be a Strix Halo (or at least Strix Point) 13-14" Framework laptop, with a refreshed body, an OLED screen and mac-like trackpad, running linux

 

[MS_AT]

which is free for personal use

Also commercial since 11th Nov https://blogs.vmware.com/cloud-foun...n-and-workstation-are-now-free-for-all-users/

 

[fkoehler]

Yes, 16Gb should be fine if folks are running AAA on CrossWorks reasonable well.

Since I went Linux full-time, there is no MS or suite of baggage to worry about.
This is all home stuff, not work related and pretty weak in any sense of the word.
Been running an old T460 for years as primary, with an ancient 4770 for desktop.
Can't quite remember how I ended up with those as I started out with Abit BP6 dual celeron 300a's and a pencil to Thuban X6, etc. Xcountry move and work probably, and they were free most likely...

Either way, the base M4 even with 16Gb should do anything I've been doing or realistically want to do in the future and then some.
Best/Worst thing I am thinking of right now, is all my x86 Precious I've got squirelled away for a rainy day that can just be wholesale given away or more likely binned (sniff).

If I really need more power at some point, then I'll likely be making money off of it so either paying the Apple tax to upgrade will b fine or getting a great M3 deal on a Studio or macbook should be possible as the M4 continues to 'obsolete' them.

Appreciate everyone's suggestions, comments, critiques.
I feel like I've just finished a 12 Steps Program.