Has air cooling reached its zenith?

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A

allies

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2002
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Aluminum to Copper/Hybrid: yielded better cooling
Introduction of heatpipes in heatsinks: yielded better cooling

With the top performers (CNPS9500, Scythe Ninja, SI-120, XP90C, TT Big Typhoon) all performing almost identically, what is needed to happen to provide much better cooling? Or is there only going to be minimal increments henceforth? I'd like to hear your opinon.
 
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GalvanizedYankee

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2003
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I would be interested too.

Lets not have this degenerate into an AMD vs Intel type thread. MMmmmkay :D

My opinions are for the enthusiast not the mainstream because air cooling will be cheaper and much lower long term maintainance for them.

1-When WCed PSUs of good quality hit the market, i would think ACing is near it's last leg.

2-When coolents are developed that are better than distilled water for heat transfer and are biologicly stable(nothing grows in them).

3-When pump life has a super track record for life expectancy.

The above come to mind rather quickly.
Air cooling still has away to go. The newer mainboards have heatpipe tech being used to cool the boards chip sets, that's a biggie.
The medium used inside the heatpipe might get a break through as far as heat carrying qualities go.
The wicking used inside the heatpipe might see improvement.

Fun to think about. Thanks for the thread.


...Galvanized


EDIT: Another thing came to mind. What if a small quiet a/c unit was hooked up to the intake of a well insulated case. This would give air cooling a boost similare to chilled water for a WC rig but less maintainance.
 
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allies

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2002
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Galvanized... on your first point, are you saying there are watercooled PSU's? I wasn't aware of this, but that's an awesome idea to make strides towards silent computing. Also, I guess I do agree that aircooling has a way to go as more things are starting to rely on heatpipes (the northbridge you mentioned comes to mind). I guess instead of watercooling, a combination of heatpipes could be used to transfer heat to one point, which could be cooled by a fan.

Your idea of chilled air is also a good idea IMO.
 
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GalvanizedYankee

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2003
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No! I haven't seen or heard of a WCed PSU, but the day will come real soon that somebody will mod a water block to the PSU's sinks :D

In brain storming about this it dawned on me.
At the rate things change and how willing some are to spend money for any new improvement how little tested, this won't suprise me. A very expensive CPU water block that is a hi-bred of both,the best of heatpipe and water block combined.

Imagine a very small, fine tubed, fine finned heatpipe set-up inside the water block. The water would act as a heat exchanger. The waters resivore would be chilled by refigeration.

How do you like them apples :D




I'm stick'en with air for awhile yet. But is sure is good to have the two techs locked in a battle as it drives improvements in each.

...Galvanized
 
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JRich

Platinum Member
Jun 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: allies
Galvanized... on your first point, are you saying there are watercooled PSU's? I wasn't aware of this, but that's an awesome idea to make strides towards silent computing. Also, I guess I do agree that aircooling has a way to go as more things are starting to rely on heatpipes (the northbridge you mentioned comes to mind). I guess instead of watercooling, a combination of heatpipes could be used to transfer heat to one point, which could be cooled by a fan.

Your idea of chilled air is also a good idea IMO.
Click to expand...

When I used to build plasma etchers the RF generators had watercooled PSU's :)


 
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Shadrack

Banned
Nov 20, 2005
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I can remember building Plasma RF refractorized Dilithium Conduits.
We use to cool those things with anodized aluminum oxide kryptonite spray.
 
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GalvanizedYankee

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2003
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Originally posted by: Shadrack
I can remember building Plasma RF refractorized Dilithium Conduits.
We use to cool those things with anodized aluminum oxide kryptonite spray.
Click to expand...


Lets not let this troll hi-jack this thread. Search his post and see what he has offered anyone.

Has he even asked an intellegent question?

Go back to the fire Shadrack! Please ignore his posts here. He belongs over in OT.


...Galvanized
 
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Operandi

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I think the future of cooling tech (after air tops out) is Micro-Channel water cooling.

P.S. I don't think we'll ever need a water cooled PSU. As PSUs get more and more efficient less and less heat will be generated per watt, cooling needs will actually decrease.
 
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Operandi

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: vanvock
I've seen an air conditioned case like you described Galvanized, but can't recall where. I thought that Gigabyte or someone was coming out with a liquid metal cooled video card but I guess it hit a snag. Anyone heard anymore about that?
Click to expand...

Sapphire. They had a prototype but I haven't heard anything about it going retail yet.
 
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GalvanizedYankee

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2003
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Iteresting links guys. I'll have to read them later.

About a year ago I did read (iirc) that Intel was working on an ion generator that would be integrated into the structure of the chip itself. These sub-microscopic ion generators would draw air through the chip to assist in cooling. I'm far from being an EE but it was said to be like solar wind and would help with the toaster chip moving the heat away faster.
Probably was a splash in the pan. Haven't heard anything about it since.

The WCed PSU @ $260 for 350watts! The price of silence.


...Galvanized
 
JEDIYoda

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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If I may wade into this....

theres also another air cooler on the market that appears to be the Tiniq Tower 120

http://www.tuniq.com.tw/Cooler%20Info/Tower-120.htm

http://www.frostytech.com/permalink.cfm?NewsID=43862

I would say heatsinks will keep getting bigger and heavier for say another year or so...thern things will bottom out as far as aircooling goes....

I truly wouldn`t be suprised if you saw a Zalman9500 only bigger with a 120 mm fan...
maybe call it the 9500-120...or something like that!

 
BonzaiDuck

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,777
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Been a while, guys.

JediYoda -- I read a Brit review on the Sunbeam Tuniq 120 today. The temperatures seem to be on par with the SI-120, CNPS-9500, Scythe Ninja. I think the tester used an AMD CPU, but I couldn't find the spec in the review. For the kind of processor thermal power specs you, I and others have, it would seem to have a thermal resistance in the same range as the others.

It's probably true that the KISS principle supplements the laws of thermodynamics on other solutions. That's why I've stayed with air-cooling so far, in addition to the price factor. More parts, more complexity. And when you consume more power to achieve a limited cooling effect per sq. cm. of processor real-estate (as in TEC), you'd almost like to keep that power source separate from the case.

These other exotic solutions such as that article in The Register someone (was it Operandi?) linked -- it's just a wait-and-see sort of thing, I guess. . .
 
Zap

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
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Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
I truly wouldn`t be suprised if you saw a Zalman9500 only bigger with a 120 mm fan...
maybe call it the 9500-120...or something like that!
Click to expand...

Nah, the CNPS12500. :p

As far as HSF tech goes, there can be a lot more tweaking of existing technology. Maybe not leaps and bounds, but I'd wager that the top HSF in two years will outperform the top ones of today by a measurable margin.

Remember that we've gone quite far since the days of 7000RPM 60mm fans on our Athlons.
 
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Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
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Its all about playing with technology that already exists in power plants but bringing it down to smaller useful toys for the Computer industry. There are different fluids you can put into the heatpipes, different ways of fashioning the heat sinks such that you maximize area.

PSU and GPU cooling could really get a boost if the newer CPU designs are incorporated into them - ie heatpipes, lots of surface area. Its already phased into the GPUs, but the PSUs still have really rudimentary heatsinks in them.

The problem with watercooling is that it will always be messy, and the pump will always have some sort of noise associated with it.

Another idea that is not very cheap to impliment would be to have the CPU manufacturers incorporate the heatsink onto the cpu itself. Making it one piece would simplify the troublesome [cpu, air, goop, CPU plate,air,thermalgoop,air,heatsink] interface.
 
JBDan

JBDan

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2004
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Originally posted by: allies
Galvanized... on your first point, are you saying there are watercooled PSU's? I wasn't aware of this, but that's an awesome idea to make strides towards silent computing. Also, I guess I do agree that aircooling has a way to go as more things are starting to rely on heatpipes (the northbridge you mentioned comes to mind). I guess instead of watercooling, a combination of heatpipes could be used to transfer heat to one point, which could be cooled by a fan.

Your idea of chilled air is also a good idea IMO.
Click to expand...

I definitely do not think it is needed, but they do make them. http://www.sharkacomputers.com/si45wacoposu.html
Good thread OP. I have for the last 2-3 years asked myself this question of when will AC'ing reach its highest performance. IMO we have a ways to go.
 
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