Harry Reid just said there is a civil war in Iraq?

[Polish3d]

I swear I just heard him say this. This isn't the case despite the train of willful pessimists that will come on here and claim it is. Frankly if he did say that (looking to find a quote now) I'll be amazed.

Hopefully it doesn't get much press but if the left starts capitalizing on the bad of the war to the point where they are promoting the bad in order to win elections (they already do to some degree) I'll really be disappointed and angry.

Saying its a civil war would be an example of this, a mischaracterization that hurts our efforts to get these people on a good track, soley for political gain. Pretty heinous.

(Cue the missing the point responses about why Bush is bad so we can all sprint lower in the standards we hold both sides to.)

 

[Ronstang]

If Harry Reid's mouth is moving misinformation is flowing. He is the perfect replacement for Daschle.

 

[Train]

Well there sorta is, depending on how you look at it.

Basically 3/4 of Iraq is A-OK with the development of the new Govt, the Sunnis, the minority who used to have power, are pretty ticked about A) Not being able to opress the other groups in Iraq anymore, and B) not being able to control the oil profits of other regions of Iraq. So they bomb and terrorize and spread false rumors, in every effort to destroy thier new democratic govt and replace it with another oppressive one controlled by the Sunni's

 

[Tab]

Well, in reality thats what it's turning out to be. It's a war for power with the sunni's and the shittes.

 

[Todd33]

Link, quote, context?

Trolling?

 

[Polish3d]

I see no reason to turn this thread into a debate about whether what's happening in Iraq can be cosidered a civil war.

It isn't. There is substantial civil unrest but there are no organized armies fighting one another, and all sides ARE working to keep Iraq together. The Sunnis DO want Iraq to stay together.

For Reid to be promoting this idea, (assuming I heard right, still can't find quote) is disgusting. Want many more troops to die? Encourage an outright civil war they'll be mired in between trying to restore order. Hey, maybe democrats will get elected because of it though, the compassionate souls.

 

[Strk]

Well, it kind of is. It's the Sunnis causing almost all of the trouble.

 

[glenn1]

Basically 3/4 of Iraq is A-OK with the development of the new Govt, the Sunnis, the minority who used to have power, are pretty ticked about A) Not being able to opress the other groups in Iraq anymore, and B) not being able to control the oil profits of other regions of Iraq. So they bomb and terrorize and spread false rumors, in every effort to destroy thier new democratic govt and replace it with another oppressive one controlled by the Sunni's

To be fair, Sunnis aren't the only ones participating. There's a good number of Shiites and Kurds who are willing to use violence to exert a greater amount of influence than would be otherwise electorally possible, disagree in principle with the government being formed, or are just plain malcontents and anarchists. I will agree however that the great majority of those involved in the "insurgency" are in the Sunni camp, however.

On the point of the OP however, Mr. Reid calling it a "civil war" is overstating things. That scenario could indeed come to pass at some point, but it's not now. To say otherwise would be to obscure the term of its traditional meaning. What's going on there now is no more a "civil war" than the massive protests which erupt anytime there's a meeting of the World Trade Organization (and the mindset of both groups seems to be pretty sympatico with one another). The difference is that the institutions of civil society are still fragile in Iraq and can't stand up to that sort of stress right now. Hopefully with more police/soldiers coming on line that will begin to change however.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
If Harry Reid's mouth is moving misinformation is flowing. He is the perfect replacement for Daschle.

QFT. But I rather like it -- Reid and his ilk are cementing Republican domination in '06 and '08 :laugh: :laugh:

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Frackal
I swear I just heard him say this. This isn't the case despite the train of willful pessimists that will come on here and claim it is. Frankly if he did say that (looking to find a quote now) I'll be amazed.

Hopefully it doesn't get much press but if the left starts capitalizing on the bad of the war to the point where they are promoting the bad in order to win elections (they already do to some degree) I'll really be disappointed and angry.

Saying its a civil war would be an example of this, a mischaracterization that hurts our efforts to get these people on a good track, soley for political gain. Pretty heinous.

(Cue the missing the point responses about why Bush is bad so we can all sprint lower in the standards we hold both sides to.)

like Howard Dean without the rabies shot?

 

[Polish3d]

yeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUGGG!!!!!!!!

 

[bdude]

This thread needs a link.

 

[Polish3d]

I know, hopefully I heard wrong.

It was from a speech today where he was ripping on Cheney about Iraq, Leaks, Oil, etc


I think they're throwing the anti-Cheney turd at the wall to see if it'll stick

 

[judasmachine]

I bet there is one brewing. If we walk out tomorrow the conflict will continue unabated. If we stay there the conflict will continue unabated. Rock meet the hard place.

 

[Jhhnn]

You're confusing the US Civil War, which was a war of secession, with all civil wars, which aren't necessarily about that, at all. The Spanish Civil War certainly wasn't- it was about who would rule the whole ocuntry.

And, yeh, what's happening in Iraq today is a civil war of sorts, with the insurgents targetting the police and leadership of the new US sponsored govt... along with US troops, as well...

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Frackal
I think they're throwing the anti-Cheney turd at the wall to see if it'll stick

It will, in the minds of voters come '06 and '08 when they vote Republican :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Martin]

They're having a cordial disagreement.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Frackal
...The Sunnis DO want Iraq to stay together...

absolutely, but thats part of the problem. For the Sunni's to get back to thier former position of power and wealth, they require a federal control over the oil profits, since the oil fields are mostly in the north and south, not the center, where the Sunni trianlge is. For if Iraq to be split into three countries along the lines of its major ethnic groups, would leave the Sunni's without any wealth. They want the country to stay together more than anyone. The Shiites arent that much of seperatists, but the Kurds sure are, they have wanted thier own country for a long time.