Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi: America's Heroes

[shuttleboi]

Originally posted by: tweaker2

Originally posted by: jpeyton
We all know why he admires Pelosi.

i used some kentucky windage on pelosi's physical stats and came to the conclusion that the hull her bridge got chopped onto is four cupcakes short at her stacks and four buns short aft.

English translation please?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Hecubus2000
:|Hero? Maybe Pelosi should "stand up" and tell us where all of the Iraqi WMDs are located.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." ? Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi > October 10, 2002 "Yes, he has chemical weapons. Yes, he has biological weapons. He is trying to get nuclear weapons."

Plenty of people were wrong on the WMD issue, and that could be explained in any number of ways. What makes Bush's (and Rumsfeld, etc) handling of the affair so distasteful is that it went from :

Saddam has WMDs and has a Nuke program, let's get him!

Whoops, no WMDs, but we're liberating the Iraqi people so they don't have to live in Fear!

Whoops, Iraqis are dying by the truckload, but we're making the world safer by fighting the terrorists right? Don't trust the NIE btw

Etc, etc.

The Iraq blunder has been the biggest US foreign policy disaster in recent decades. Many many individuals share the blame. It is fair to point out the various figures who were also fooled by the WMD shell game, but you can't equate anyone else with Bush's handling of the Iraqi debacle. Why? Because he and his administration drew the failed plans, and after years of pointless death, still have no credible path to improvement.

I mostly agree with you. I am just tired of the whole "Bush lied" BS, because most people believed that Iraq had WMDs at the time, but many Democrats here tend to forget that. I do not believe that Bush lied, he was just wrong. Now, as far as handling the war goes, he has not done a very good job, but he did get rid of Rumsfeld and that is a major step towards improving the whole situation.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: magomago
Isn't Reid involved with his own scandals? How does that make him a hero....

No, he's not. The right is trying to make his transition of a land ownership deal to an LLC where he was a partner into something it's not. Sorta like how the Whitewater investigation went on for 10 years only to find: absolutely nothing!

As for Pelosi : its hard for me to believe her as she seems a political opportunist: vote in a way to ensure she stays in power~

Not my 1st pick for Dem Speaker but she's a FAR cry better than drug-smuggler/bribe-taker Hastert.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: JD50
Did you read the date on that first quote? What administration was in power in 1998?

So, you always support invading/occupying countries on 5 year-old intelligence? :roll:

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: tweaker2

Originally posted by: Hecubus2000
:|Hero? Maybe Pelosi should "stand up" and tell us where all of the Iraqi WMDs are located.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." ? Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi > October 10, 2002 "Yes, he has chemical weapons. Yes, he has biological weapons. He is trying to get nuclear weapons."

being in the minority party at the time, i wonder where she got her information from for her to make those statements? i'm sure she was not privy to the real intel that bush, cheney, wolfy rummy, etc. and the repub leadership in congress knew about. so, i find it plausible in assuming she was relying on propaganda being fed to her from the repub admin and congressional leaders.

edit - form

Did you read the date on that first quote? What administration was in power in 1998?

jd50 - i stand corrected on her first quote as to what admin was installed at the time. thanks.:thumbsup:

that being said, wasn't what she said being viewed as common knowledge at the time as far as what she said in that '98 quote?

as for her second quote, i feel my original remark is still valid.

Since the 1990's? I highly doubt it. Looks to me like she changed her position, and her story, once public opinion of Bush went down the crapper. Not exactly my definition of a Hero.

hecubus, as above, i was made aware of my error of the date of the first quote and have amended my response accordingly in this post. sorry for the kerry-que.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: tweaker2

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: tweaker2

Originally posted by: Hecubus2000
:|Hero? Maybe Pelosi should "stand up" and tell us where all of the Iraqi WMDs are located.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." ? Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi > October 10, 2002 "Yes, he has chemical weapons. Yes, he has biological weapons. He is trying to get nuclear weapons."

being in the minority party at the time, i wonder where she got her information from for her to make those statements? i'm sure she was not privy to the real intel that bush, cheney, wolfy rummy, etc. and the repub leadership in congress knew about. so, i find it plausible in assuming she was relying on propaganda being fed to her from the repub admin and congressional leaders.

edit - form

Did you read the date on that first quote? What administration was in power in 1998?

jd50 - i stand corrected on her first quote as to what admin was installed at the time. thanks.:thumbsup:

that being said, wasn't what she said being viewed as common knowledge at the time as far as what she said in that '98 quote?

as for her second quote, i feel my original remark is still valid.

Since the 1990's? I highly doubt it. Looks to me like she changed her position, and her story, once public opinion of Bush went down the crapper. Not exactly my definition of a Hero.

hecubus, as above, i was made aware of my error of the date of the first quote and have amended my response accordingly in this post. sorry for the kerry-que.

I think her first quote reinforces the point that everyone believed that Saddam had WMDs, and that is was not some big conspiracy concocted by the Bush administration.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: JD50
I think her first quote reinforces the point that everyone believed that Saddam had WMDs, and that is was not some big conspiracy concocted by the Bush administration.

That was in 1998 when inspectors were unable to do their jobs.

In late 2002 when inspectors were back in Iraq and had complete access to any site and were BEGGING the Bushco WH for intel on where to look and kept coming up with NOTHING, well, only a brain-dead sheep would equate the two.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Hecubus2000
:|Hero? Maybe Pelosi should "stand up" and tell us where all of the Iraqi WMDs are located.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." ? Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi > October 10, 2002 "Yes, he has chemical weapons. Yes, he has biological weapons. He is trying to get nuclear weapons."

Plenty of people were wrong on the WMD issue, and that could be explained in any number of ways. What makes Bush's (and Rumsfeld, etc) handling of the affair so distasteful is that it went from :

Saddam has WMDs and has a Nuke program, let's get him!

Whoops, no WMDs, but we're liberating the Iraqi people so they don't have to live in Fear!

Whoops, Iraqis are dying by the truckload, but we're making the world safer by fighting the terrorists right? Don't trust the NIE btw

Etc, etc.

The Iraq blunder has been the biggest US foreign policy disaster in recent decades. Many many individuals share the blame. It is fair to point out the various figures who were also fooled by the WMD shell game, but you can't equate anyone else with Bush's handling of the Iraqi debacle. Why? Because he and his administration drew the failed plans, and after years of pointless death, still have no credible path to improvement.

I mostly agree with you. I am just tired of the whole "Bush lied" BS, because most people believed that Iraq had WMDs at the time, but many Democrats here tend to forget that. I do not believe that Bush lied, he was just wrong. Now, as far as handling the war goes, he has not done a very good job, but he did get rid of Rumsfeld and that is a major step towards improving the whole situation.

Fair enough, and I greatly respect your honesty on this issue. I am hedged between wanting to believe that Bush was just wrong, and haunted by the distinct possibility (as potentially enlightened by the 9/12/01 Iraqi invasion discussions) that selling the Iraq war was conciously pushed IN SPITE of contradictory evidence and reasonable alternatives to armed conflict. Despite all of this, it is somewhat irrelevant in the end, those soldiers who sacrificed everything are never coming home to their families, no matter what motives, mistakes, hopes, or otherwise. This is why I hope that Bush makes the best of his 2 remaining years, and that replacing Rumsfeld is the light at the end of the tunnel for this whole mess.

We really need to heal the gaping wounds in our own country at the same time, there is so much viciousness and hate from the left and the right slung on each other, that it is nearly unbearable. I was somewhat heartened by Bush's comments after the midterm elections, I hope that a walk towards the center actually occurs.

We must remember, if the Democrats try to impeach Bush and sideline our entire governmental process, then there will undeniably be a backlash. They need to work together for a solution to the mess that we are all in.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: JD50
I think her first quote reinforces the point that everyone believed that Saddam had WMDs, and that is was not some big conspiracy concocted by the Bush administration.

That was in 1998 when inspectors were unable to do their jobs.

In late 2002 when inspectors were back in Iraq and had complete access to any site and were BEGGING the Bushco WH for intel on where to look and kept coming up with NOTHING, well, only a brain-dead sheep would equate the two.

LOL, is this what the next 2 years are going to be like on this board? Spin all you want conjur, just remember, the truth will set you free

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: JD50
I think her first quote reinforces the point that everyone believed that Saddam had WMDs, and that is was not some big conspiracy concocted by the Bush administration.

That was in 1998 when inspectors were unable to do their jobs.

In late 2002 when inspectors were back in Iraq and had complete access to any site and were BEGGING the Bushco WH for intel on where to look and kept coming up with NOTHING, well, only a brain-dead sheep would equate the two.

LOL, is this what the next 2 years are going to be like on this board? Spin all you want conjur, just remember, the truth will set you free

Feel free to address my post instead of cutting and running. It's the failure to address the issues that just cost your party control of Congress.

Now, ante up or shut up


"In their third progress report since U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441 was passed in November, inspectors told the council they had not found any weapons of mass destruction." Weapons inspector Hans Blix told the U.N. Security Council they had been unable to find any WMD in Iraq and that more time was needed for inspections. --CNN, 2/14/03


http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/unmovic/2003/0310inspdis.htm

Blix drove a stake through the heart of a key U.S. accusation: that Iraq has mobile bioweapons labs. UN inspectors have followed up on intelligence from the CIA and examined mobile food testing laboratories, mobile workshops, and large containers holding seed processing equipment. They've found no evidence of mobile bioweapons labs. Blix also skewered U.S. claims that Saddam is hiding his weapons of mass destruction underground. The UN inspectors have used ground-penetrating radar and visited sites recommended by the CIA and British intelligence, but have found no evidence of underground activity, converted subway tunnels, buried mobile bioweapons labs, or other such fantasies.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
We all know why he admires Pelosi.

Oh sh!t! LOL

 

[Zebo]

My only question is Reid gonna hold McInsane to his suicide promise?

 

[senseamp]

The West Siiiide rules.
It's all about CA and NV, Texas, go home

 

[trenchfoot]

I think her first quote reinforces the point that everyone believed that Saddam had WMDs, and that is was not some big conspiracy concocted by the Bush administration.

things changed alot in iraq from the time pelosi made her statement in '98 to the time the bush admin started beating their war drums. with hindsight, it also includes the fact that when bush said there were wmd's iraq and presented that idea as his main justification for the invasion, there were none to be found.

other than those that were making false accusations about wmd's in iraq, as emerging facts were revealed about what was being lied about and what was being covered up in the effort to justify the invasion of iraq, peoples opinions changed, including pelosi's.

at both those times, pelosi's statements reflected the commonly held views on iraq. the difference being her first statement was based on actual facts. her second quote was based on intel that was being scripted by the bush admin to justify launching their invasion of iraq.

at both times the statements she made was based on the prevailing intel given to her from the only sources of data that she could rely on.

in that regard, she doesn't appear hypocritical to me.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Stand up? How did they vote on the war in Iraq? Did they vote to authorize?

There was a vote to give the president authority to take action if he deemed necessary... there was no vote on the war in Iraq. Bush took the final plunge on faulty info that he and his staff alone had the full details on.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: tweaker2

Originally posted by: Hecubus2000
:|Hero? Maybe Pelosi should "stand up" and tell us where all of the Iraqi WMDs are located.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." ? Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi > October 10, 2002 "Yes, he has chemical weapons. Yes, he has biological weapons. He is trying to get nuclear weapons."

being in the minority party at the time, i wonder where she got her information from for her to make those statements? i'm sure she was not privy to the real intel that bush, cheney, wolfy rummy, etc. and the repub leadership in congress knew about. so, i find it plausible in assuming she was relying on propaganda being fed to her from the repub admin and congressional leaders.

edit - form

Did you read the date on that first quote? What administration was in power in 1998?

Saddam may have wanted and persued those weapons.. but the sanctions hurt the country quite badly.. hence the no armies and no weapons found.. DEVELOPING and HAVING weapons are completely different.. especially in the case of Iraq since they had no means to ACTUALLY develop them. so I don't see what is wrong with her quote..

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: tweaker2

Originally posted by: Hecubus2000
:|Hero? Maybe Pelosi should "stand up" and tell us where all of the Iraqi WMDs are located.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." ? Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi > October 10, 2002 "Yes, he has chemical weapons. Yes, he has biological weapons. He is trying to get nuclear weapons."

being in the minority party at the time, i wonder where she got her information from for her to make those statements? i'm sure she was not privy to the real intel that bush, cheney, wolfy rummy, etc. and the repub leadership in congress knew about. so, i find it plausible in assuming she was relying on propaganda being fed to her from the repub admin and congressional leaders.

edit - form

Did you read the date on that first quote? What administration was in power in 1998?

Saddam may have wanted and persued those weapons.. but the sanctions hurt the country quite badly.. hence the no armies and no weapons found.. DEVELOPING and HAVING weapons are completely different.. especially in the case of Iraq since they had no means to ACTUALLY develop them. so I don't see what is wrong with her quote..

Neither do I, because that is what everyone believed at the time, same thing goes for October of 2002.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: magomago
Isn't Reid involved with his own scandals? How does that make him a hero....

No, he's the target of the usual right-wing smear campaigns you listen to.

As for Pelosi : its hard for me to believe her as she seems a political opportunist: vote in a way to ensure she stays in power~

That's because you have an extreme bias.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Stand up? How did they vote on the war in Iraq? Did they vote to authorize?

There was a vote to give the president authority to take action if he deemed necessary... there was no vote on the war in Iraq. Bush took the final plunge on faulty info that he and his staff alone had the full details on.

As made possible by their vote. Exactly!

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: ntdz
Reid and Pelosi are NOT heroes, give me a bucket. I'm disgusted that Pelosi is from my state, I hate the bitch....

haha. How's that bitterness going for ya? :laugh: Just take your comeuppance like a man, Bush seemed to. What you have seen is a total repudiation of your Right-Wing BS. SO just enjoy!

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: randym431
HOWARD DEAN!!!!
He was a master mind here. He was considered a moron by so many, but he had new ideas. He went into red states and said "we can challenge these republicans", and he did and it worked.

Dean revamped how the demo party runs races and he opened doors other demos were afraid to go near.

HOWARED DEAN should get A LOT of credit here. He's a great demo leader and extremely smart man...

ummm yea....

If anything you guys should be calling Bush a hero for helping you retake power.
Just like the Republicans would have never taken it in the first place if it were not for Clinton.

MM yeah, how'd your hero, Karl Rove do yesterday? How's that master plan going?

THE ARCHITECT! WOOOO HOOOO! You go mister architect maaaaan!

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Bush strayed from the center/moderates, his apology today for F'ing the election for his party was spot on.

Frankly he still sounds cocky. I think he needs a good slap across the face to wake his a*s up!

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

What will Pelosi and Reid do, now? Pass the Senate's illegal alien amnesty bill, helping move the United States further in the direction of becoming a third world country?

Yeah, and what did Bush do? Build a wall? :laugh:

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ntdz
Reid and Pelosi are NOT heroes, give me a bucket. I'm disgusted that Pelosi is from my state, I hate the bitch....

Well if you were a Country Music Star from Texas and said that about your President you'd be getting death threats.