Hardware Advice for a Small Business Network (Attorney's Office)

[Muscles]

Greetings,

A lawyer who is a friend of the family asked me to upgrade and setup his office network and I was hoping to get some suggestions. I need to build 3 workstations and 1 server. We'll be using a wired network off a cable/dsl router. The things he needs is MS Office, ProLaw, and some kind of group calender so I figured I could setup exchange for outlook. As far as backup is concerned I thought dvd-r media would be more than enough and simple since everything is pretty small (text documents, forms, etc.). I've gone ahead and looked up some prices on the hardware and software. If you think I should do anything different or if you think I got everything right for the most part I'd really like to hear it. At first, I thought about going all athlon64 w/nforce3 mb's for both server and workstations but someone in irc thought going intel might be better for less heat?

1 Server

Hardware:
P4 2.8E $180.00
ASUS "P4P800 SE" i865PE Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU -RETAIL / $89.00
Corsair Value Select (Dual Pack) 184 Pin 1G(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 - OEM / $160.00
16X DVD-/+RW Drive for backup / $72.00
ENERMAX Black 10-Bay ATX Mid-Tower Case with Temp Display and 350W Power Supply, Model "CS-30881TA-B3A" -RETAIL / $53.00
Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD800JD, OEM Drive Only / $69.00
Geforce FX5200 / $50.00

Software:
Microsoft Small Business Server 2003 Standard Edition - OEM / $438.00
Microsoft Office 2003 Basic With Service Pack 1 - OEM / $173.00
ProLaw Ready (http://www.elite.com/solutions...-fam/prolaw/index.asp)

3 Workstations

Hardware:
P4 2.8E $180.00
ASUS "P4P800 SE" i865PE Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU -RETAIL / $89.00
Corsair Value Select 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - OEM / $79.00
ENERMAX Black 10-Bay ATX Mid-Tower Case with Temp Display and 350W Power Supply, Model "CS-30881TA-B3A" -RETAIL / $53.00
Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD800JD, OEM Drive Only / $69.00
SAMSUNG 16X DVD Drive Black, Model TS-H352A/WBGH, OEM / $25.00
Geforce FX5200 / $50.00

Software:
Microsoft Windows XP Professional With Service Pack 2 -OEM / $145.00
Microsoft Office 2003 Basic With Service Pack 1 - OEM / $173.00
ProLaw Ready (http://www.elite.com/solutions...-fam/prolaw/index.asp)

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
Erik

 

[chilled]

What budget do you have to play with???

Also you have Prescott core based CPUs there. They are going against your principle of producing less heat and the 2.8'C' or a A64 setup would be more beneficial in respect of both perf. and heat.

I'm assuming the server's HD will only contain document files. If these files are large and accessed frequently you may want to look into a SCSI setup. Also, if cost permits you may want to look into a reliable tapedrive for automated backup purposes.

 

[Sideswipe001]

My suggestions would be based around the storage on the server as well. Are you going to install Exchange?

It's more "efficent" to have a server with multiple seperate physical drives. Logs on one, page file, etc. But since this is a small office, it won't matter a whole lot. In reality, why are you even putting a server in? Just for Exchange?

Mostly I'd ask, what growth plans do they have? What are they going to really USE the server for? Will it be a file server as well? How big of files? Build their server, especially, with growth in mind. Get the hardware now to run any software they might want to run in the next few years.

 

[Matthias99]

At first, I thought about going all athlon64 w/nforce3 mb's for both server and workstations but someone in irc thought going intel might be better for less heat?

You're buying *Prescotts* because you want *less* heat? That's a new one on me.

If this is for a business, then unless budgets are very tight, I'd strongly consider going for systems from an established retailer with technical support (someone like Dell, HP, IBM, etc.) rather than building them yourself. Unless, of course, you're getting paid for supporting it... when something goes wrong at a really bad time (and it will), they *will* call you and expect you to fix it RIGHT NOW.

 

[Muscles]

Thanks for the input thus far.

You're buying *Prescotts* because you want *less* heat? That's a new one on me.

You're right. I typed this up fast last night and wasn't thinking. P4C is what it should of said. So do you think I should just go athlon64 anyway or stick with northwood?

If this is for a business, then unless budgets are very tight, I'd strongly consider going for systems from an established retailer with technical support (someone like Dell, HP, IBM, etc.) rather than building them yourself. Unless, of course, you're getting paid for supporting it... when something goes wrong at a really bad time (and it will), they *will* call you and expect you to fix it RIGHT NOW.

The budget is tight considering what he wants. Idealy he only wanted to spend around 3 thousand total. The setup I've illustrated in the original post comes to a total of $3400+. He would be looking at spending quite a bit more money going with someone like dell. My fathers insurance office was setup around '98 through a local computer store and he has never had a problem except with spyware infecting the workstations which I've manage to fix myself. I imagine once the attorneys office is setup I doubt he'll have many problems either. We're talking only 3 workstations here and 1 server.

I'm assuming the server's HD will only contain document files. If these files are large and accessed frequently you may want to look into a SCSI setup. Also, if cost permits you may want to look into a reliable tapedrive for automated backup purposes.

Good suggestions. Perhaps I can get him to pay for a 74gig Raptor.

My suggestions would be based around the storage on the server as well. Are you going to install Exchange?

Of course. The OS I have listed in the original post for the server comes with exchange. Overkill? Yea probably but I have very little experience setting up servers but anything MS related is easy to setup (I prefer linux).

Mostly I'd ask, what growth plans do they have? What are they going to really USE the server for? Will it be a file server as well? How big of files? Build their server, especially, with growth in mind. Get the hardware now to run any software they might want to run in the next few years.

He wants a server because he wants one place to store everything everyone on any workstation can access at any time. I have zero experience with ProLaw http://www.prolaw.com but I glanced over their website and it does have integrated support for ms office and exchange. Here is a quote from their website giving a quick summary of what it is and what it can do.

And now, with ProLaw Ready, smaller firms can afford the advantages previously enjoyed only by large firms. They can manage cases, calendars, time and billing, and financial reporting with the practice management software suite used by more law firms and legal professionals than any other.

If you guys have any other thoughts, suggestions, ways I can reduce costs for this kind of a setup please let me know.

Thanks again,
Erik

 

[chilled]

I would get Seagates for the workstations and a Raptor/SCSI for the Server. Then again I'm nitpicking.

- I assume skimping on the CPU will not save you much money.
- Would the i865GE boards be any cheaper than the i865PE+fx5200?
- You could also ditch the DVD+-RW for a secondary HD which you could RAID 1 (if not SCSI/Raptor) or merely copy files to manually as it would be cheaper and faster anyway.

Sorry, I live in UK so my cost calculations/svings may be a bit off!

 

[mechBgon]

Asus K8N-E
Retail Athlon64 2800+
Antec Sonata case/380W PSU (those Enermaxes you have in mind come with PowerUp/L&C junkers)
Crucial PC3200
Radeon 9200SE or whatever, something with passive cooling
Seagate 80GB ATA/100 drives for workstations
Dual Seagate Cheetah 10k.6 on LSI Logic 21320R, RAID1 for the server
McAfee VirusScan 8.0 Professional (each 8.0 Pro is licensed for two computers)

Quieter, far less heat production, more powerful, NX-bit support, native gigabit, onboard hardware firewall if you choose to use it, 64-bit readiness, and I can vouch for McAfee's engines REALLY favoring A64's over a Netburst CPU (Xeon v. A64 is no contest here). And no pathetic noisy piece-of-trash PSU either.

Just my 2¢ worth.

 

[erikistired]

yeah, if he's looking for cheap onboard video would probably be fine. and if all the docs are going to be stored server side you could probably go down to 40gb hdds (depends on what the price diff is i guess, if it's a few bucks obviously it's not worth it). i'd also run a raid 1 setup and then do a high quality tape backup, but that's just me. backups are king, especially when dealing with law firms. altho dvd is probably a good way to go as well, i just haven't had experience with it in a backup situation.

workstation

intel 2.4b - 129 (for a workstation do you really need 2.8c cpus? a 2.4b will run word just fine)
gigabyte 8i845gvm-rz motherboard (i845gv chipset, onboard video) - 49
crucial 512mb ddr pc2700 - 78
antec solution series mini tower case w/ 300w psu (don't really need 10 bay cases for small offices) - 48.50
seagate 40gb 7200rpm hdd - 54
liteon 16x dvd-rom - 28

386.50 as opposed to 545. perfectly capable of running windows xp and office. spend the extra money on beefing up the server, and don't put ricey looking cases in a law office. if you need a bit more speed, look for a 2.4c cpu, integrated intel i865 chipset motherboard, maybe a little faster ram. but do you really need sata for an office workstation?

 

[Sideswipe001]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Asus K8N-E
Retail Athlon64 2800+
Antec Sonata case/380W PSU (those Enermaxes you have in mind come with PowerUp/L&C junkers)
Crucial PC3200
Radeon 9200SE or whatever, something with passive cooling
Seagate 80GB ATA/100 drives for workstations
Dual Seagate Cheetah 10k.6 on LSI Logic 21320R, RAID1 for the server
McAfee VirusScan 8.0 Professional (each 8.0 Pro is licensed for two computers)

Quieter, far less heat production, more powerful, NX-bit support, native gigabit, onboard hardware firewall if you choose to use it, 64-bit readiness, and I can vouch for McAfee's engines REALLY favoring A64's over a Netburst CPU (Xeon v. A64 is no contest here). And no pathetic noisy piece-of-trash PSU either.

Just my 2¢ worth.

I don't have time to price right now, but I'm assuming that an Opteron board with onboard video would be more expensive? When I build servers, I like to leave options open for a 2nd CPU. But that's just me.

 

[Muscles]

Great responses. The specific hardware and prices you guys are suggesting is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. It seems like it's come down to a lot of personal preference. Preferably, I'd like to end up with something not too high end but not on the low end either for the workstations. Something kind of in-between that will last quite awhile.

If anyone else has anymore opinions on what kind of hardware I should go for please feel free. I appreciate all replies.

Erik.

 

[Daniel]

Originally posted by: fisher
i'd also run a raid 1 setup and then do a high quality tape backup, but that's just me. backups are king, especially when dealing with law firms. altho dvd is probably a good way to go as well, i just haven't had experience with it in a backup situation.

This is about the most important part out of everything. At the least I'd mirror the server drives and make sure that backup is solid. No matter how well you might build a machine drives will still die, a decent raid card and 2 drives are more than worth the cost.

 

[ojingoh]

prolaw is a pos. seriously, if you are thinking about prolaw, you are not going to like it without at least 2 procs, trust me. i work with that garbage all day long, it's a thread *hog*. and with legal data, you are talking about a raid array at least, preferrably a san. no excuses! you cannot lose wills, indemnity, depositions, emails, etc. etc. etc. plus with a single proc the sql server side of it will be dog slow. i don't know you and i'm sure you are knowledgable, but there is no way for $3400 you are going to build a recoverable 99.999% (five 9s) uptime network. try $3400 for a basic legal server! the stuff is freakin' expensive. and the reason dell et al make big business is that a) they give 24/7 support and b) they will finance you.

i wish you all the best, prove me wrong!

 

[otispunkmeyer]

why has no one suggested semprons ? or at least athlon xp workstation?

 

[otispunkmeyer]

but ohyeah............id suggest jus get dell to hook u up

 

[Kenazo]

for your workstations, I'd recommend just going w/ KM400 mobos and Sempron 2500's w/ 512 megs of ram (You should save somewhere around $200-300 per workstation, once you drop the FX5200's). Put the money you save on your work stations into your server, run at least a Raid 1 setup w/ dual Raptors. You can not lose data via hard drive failure at least that way. Plus, they better be dang sure they're doing offsite back ups every single day. The DVD method will probably work well enough for what you need, though tapes would definately be better.

 

[Davegod]

you need to at least show him the dell option, imo, and definately cover your ass (he might be a friend now, wait 'till he loses some essential data and thinks the threat of his business collapsing is all your fault)

 

[Muscles]

Thanks again for the responses.

prolaw is a pos. seriously, if you are thinking about prolaw, you are not going to like it without at least 2 procs, trust me. i work with that garbage all day long, it's a thread *hog*. and with legal data, you are talking about a raid array at least, preferrably a san. no excuses! you cannot lose wills, indemnity, depositions, emails, etc. etc. etc. plus with a single proc the sql server side of it will be dog slow. i don't know you and i'm sure you are knowledgable, but there is no way for $3400 you are going to build a recoverable 99.999% (five 9s) uptime network. try $3400 for a basic legal server! the stuff is freakin' expensive. and the reason dell et al make big business is that a) they give 24/7 support and b) they will finance you.

Ojingoh - Prolaw is just what he was "thinking" of buying. He has never used it and obviously I haven't either since I'm not in the field. If you think prolaw sucks then by all means give me some alternatives if you have any. I read the system requirements on the prolaw website and they don't seem that steep... I'm goin to assume you're working for a larger firm with inadaquate server specs but if I'm mistaken let me know.

Keep in mind he is the sole licensed attorney in his office and he has two clerical employees on crappy win98 and his own computer is a laptop running winxp home. Right now he's on a crappy little peer to peer network and its not even setup so he can transfer files from one workstation to another (he said he can't get the computers to see each other on the network). One of the many simple things he wants to be able to do is check forms for errors etc. the secretaries complete without having to print everything out manually and handing it to him. That is one small example but he definitely wants to start taking advantage of today's technology. I believe he is still entirely on a paper system. Eventuall,y he would like to go paperless and get rid of his filing cabinets but that isn't an immediate goal.

Anymore feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Erik

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
but ohyeah............id suggest jus get dell to hook u up

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Sideswipe001

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Asus K8N-E
Retail Athlon64 2800+
Antec Sonata case/380W PSU (those Enermaxes you have in mind come with PowerUp/L&C junkers)
Crucial PC3200
Radeon 9200SE or whatever, something with passive cooling
Seagate 80GB ATA/100 drives for workstations
Dual Seagate Cheetah 10k.6 on LSI Logic 21320R, RAID1 for the server
McAfee VirusScan 8.0 Professional (each 8.0 Pro is licensed for two computers)

Quieter, far less heat production, more powerful, NX-bit support, native gigabit, onboard hardware firewall if you choose to use it, 64-bit readiness, and I can vouch for McAfee's engines REALLY favoring A64's over a Netburst CPU (Xeon v. A64 is no contest here). And no pathetic noisy piece-of-trash PSU either.

Just my 2¢ worth.

I don't have time to price right now, but I'm assuming that an Opteron board with onboard video would be more expensive? When I build servers, I like to leave options open for a 2nd CPU. But that's just me.

A second CPU, huh? What is Muscles going to be doing that will ever need two Opterons? At work, our primary domain controller is a single 933MHz Pentium3 with 1.5GB of RAM and a pair of 36GB SCSI drives in RAID1. It serves about 80 users, running Exchange 5.5 with plenty of calendaring and email, as well as hosting about five laser printers, a networked photocopier, private directories for each user, various shared and semi-shared directories, and tape backup duties for itself and the BDC. Its present duties don't present much of a challenge to it, either... CPU load is seldom over 10%.

Compare our 933MHz Penium3's workload to the law firm needing a fileserver for three workstations. I doubt they'll be outgrowing a single Opteron or A64 during its lifetime.

I vote for spending the big bucks on a tape-backup drive with software, ten tapes plus a cleaning tape, a safe-deposit-box rental if they don't have one, and a mid-range APC uninterruptible power supply.

 

[Mday]

buy the systems from dell. Buy from their enterprise or small business section. It will make things easier since you go through THEM for support, and not be stuck helping out

 

[Slowlearner]

I have been buying and building systems for our business for many years, and have come to rely on Dell/HP for basic needs - yes they are dogs but very reliable and there is no way you can build a system for their price if you factor in an operating systems and value for your labor. For servers, you are better off building your own, not rackmount type, so lets set up a budget:

3 x desktops $700 each w/o monitor $2,100
1 server $850+ with Raid 1 setup
OS prefer Win 2000/2003 server 5CALs $600
MS Office x3 $350
Prolaw ????
8 port switch 150
Router 50
AV software 300
Cable drops 3, $125 ea 375
Your time ???
Contingencies 10%

There is no way you do this within 3 grand. You will have to scavenge with with they have , and reuse/upgrade their existing systems/monitors/parts. There is no reason you can't have a peer to peer network using Win XP Pro as the OS in the "server". In my main location, I am using a self buitlt server using a Intel 865GBFLK mb, 2.4C P4, Kingston valueram 512MB 3200, 2xWD SATA drives, 1 Liteon combo drive, integrated graphics, generic case with a Enermax 450 watt P/S running Win2K server - only because I have 20 users. A nforce2 mb with 2600 barton should be fine for the destops.

 

[Muscles]

I really appreciate the excellent feedback. Thanks a lot. I'll talk to my buddy and see what he thinks he wants to do.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Asus K8N-E
Retail Athlon64 2800+
Antec Sonata case/380W PSU (those Enermaxes you have in mind come with PowerUp/L&C junkers)
Crucial PC3200
Radeon 9200SE or whatever, something with passive cooling
Seagate 80GB ATA/100 drives for workstations
Dual Seagate Cheetah 10k.6 on LSI Logic 21320R, RAID1 for the server
McAfee VirusScan 8.0 Professional (each 8.0 Pro is licensed for two computers)

Quieter, far less heat production, more powerful, NX-bit support, native gigabit, onboard hardware firewall if you choose to use it, 64-bit readiness, and I can vouch for McAfee's engines REALLY favoring A64's over a Netburst CPU (Xeon v. A64 is no contest here). And no pathetic noisy piece-of-trash PSU either.

Just my 2¢ worth.

:thumbsup:

 

[piasabird]

I would suggest Intel motherboards with integrated video and a 2.6C P4 to a 3.0C P4 Processsor.

A lot depends on what the Lawyer wants to do with the schedule on the Calendar. I did some work at a law firm once and they had some software to store documents on the server. If you have a server with anything critical it better be backed up with a tape drive unit. Better safe than sorry. Another option is to have a file server and a backup server just to copy the hard drive or volumes from the main server like an inexpensive NAS Box.

3 or 4 lawyers can probably get by without Gigabit Ethernet. If they are connected to the internet they need a router or maybe even a firewall to put their server on and possibly a network attached Printer.


It all depends if they want a shoestring budget network or a more secure network that exudes professionalism.

 

[Fern]

These days they are going to be connected to the internet, and it will be BB. Courts are requiring it here in NC. I get calls from them (law firms) about every 2-3 months. They keep getting viruses from emails (clients or other law offices get viruses, then they generate bogus emails etc. They ALWAYS open them). Giv'em some protection right off the bat.