Hard time choosing between compact digitals...

[Steven T]

Basically, I think those are the best ones available right now. Am I wrong? If so name the other contenders.

My budget is around 400. I like the fact that the fuji works really well in low lighing but its not a deal breaker. I like the fact that the Cannon is really small and easy to carry in comparison. I do not need, nor am I interested in "In camera photo editing options". I use photoshop extensively anyway.

 

[Aharami]

get the f31fd. Im very very very impressed with this camera - daytime and nighttime shooting.

 

[Steven T]

Yah, appears F31fd is the best digital compact all around right now. I just hate the fact it uses xD cards, is a little bit larger than I'd prefer, and just doesn't look as cool as it could (not that it matters much).

 

[ShOcKwAvE827]

I like my Canon SD800IS. Sleek, sexy, small, great battery life, quick cycle times for <300 bones. This camera is great. On sale at Dell.com I think also for cheap. I've heard a lot about the fujis try them both out and see I guess.

 

[Steven T]

I think I'm pretty sold on the fuji. I've seen multiple side by side pictures taken with the fuji and canon (under lab conditions). The pics that come out of the fuji are ALWAYS a lot nicer. Very little noise, great detail and clarity... I don't think there's anything better out at the moment.

If anyone has anything to say say it now, or forever hold your peace.

 

[Aharami]

some sample pics - no processing done - just resize to 16x12
handheld nighttime shot. im not even gonna bother posting a similar pic i took with my S3. waay too blurry
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/aharami/DSCF0016.jpg
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/aharami/DSCF0032.jpg

trees and stuff
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/aharami/DSCF0161.jpg

beach - ISO 100. no noise whatsoever
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/aharami/DSCF0142.jpg

compared to an ISO100 daytime shot taken by my S3. Im REALLY disappointed by all the noise in the sky compared to the f31fd...to the point where im considering selling the S3 for an fuji f6000fd
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/aharami/IMG_0183.jpg

 

[Steven T]

Hmm cool.

Yah bummer on the noise. Thats the last thing I want. I was really interested in the Panasonic LX1 until I learned how noisy it becomes once you start pushing much passed 100 ISO.

 

[Steven T]

Hey, what about the g7? Does it do as well as the f31fd?

 

[Canai]

I have a TZ3 and aboslutely love it. I've been taking some crazy long exposure shots recently, but you can take a look at this thread to see a few pics (at half quality) of what I've taken. The really amazing ones are still on the cam, but I have no way of getting them off (I'm on vacation and didn't pack my cable).

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: Steven T
Hey, what about the g7? Does it do as well as the f31fd?

completely different class of camera. f31 is an ultracompact P&S with very minimal manual controls. g7 is a compact with full manual controls. if ur looking at the g7, i say just wait and get the S5IS instead. g7 will let you get a lot more creative than the f31fd. but g7's sensor is smaller (like all other canon compacts) than the f31's, so you might see more noise than f31. i say might because ive never played with the g7

 

[Steven T]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Steven T
Hey, what about the g7? Does it do as well as the f31fd?

completely different class of camera. f31 is an ultracompact P&S with very minimal manual controls. g7 is a compact with full manual controls. if ur looking at the g7, i say just wait and get the S5IS instead. g7 will let you get a lot more creative than the f31fd. but g7's sensor is smaller (like all other canon compacts) than the f31's, so you might see more noise than f31. i say might because ive never played with the g7

I believe you're right, even with the added ability to use manual controls, it will be a lot easie to get better results with the fugi. AMAZING, considering the differences in technicality and cost.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: Steven T

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Steven T
Hey, what about the g7? Does it do as well as the f31fd?

completely different class of camera. f31 is an ultracompact P&S with very minimal manual controls. g7 is a compact with full manual controls. if ur looking at the g7, i say just wait and get the S5IS instead. g7 will let you get a lot more creative than the f31fd. but g7's sensor is smaller (like all other canon compacts) than the f31's, so you might see more noise than f31. i say might because ive never played with the g7

I believe you're right, even with the added ability to use manual controls, it will be a lot easie to get better results with the fuji. AMAZING, considering the differences in technicality and cost.

hmm. define better. i dont think it's as simple as that. some people just want a simple camera which they can whip out and shoot away w/o messing with the controls much. if you're looking for something like that, the f31 would fit you better. but if you want to be able to play with the settings (even though f31 does have a aperture/shutter priority setting) the g7 would satisfy you a lot more. if you're seriously looking at the g7, check out its review at dpreview.

couple things i noticed:
fuji needs to work on its focusing system a bit..esp in low light. couple of my pics with the f31 came out blurry (like a lens blur, not motion blur) when i was taking pics at long shutter and no flash. it ended up focusing on the background rather than the subject
the longest shutter setting on the f31 is 3 seconds. but surprisingly, it picked up more light and detail in those 3 seconds than my S3 could in 15 seconds. Im pretty sure this has to do with fuji's bigger CCD

 

[Steven T]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Steven T

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Steven T
Hey, what about the g7? Does it do as well as the f31fd?

completely different class of camera. f31 is an ultracompact P&S with very minimal manual controls. g7 is a compact with full manual controls. if ur looking at the g7, i say just wait and get the S5IS instead. g7 will let you get a lot more creative than the f31fd. but g7's sensor is smaller (like all other canon compacts) than the f31's, so you might see more noise than f31. i say might because ive never played with the g7

I believe you're right, even with the added ability to use manual controls, it will be a lot easie to get better results with the fuji. AMAZING, considering the differences in technicality and cost.

hmm. define better. i dont think it's as simple as that. some people just want a simple camera which they can whip out and shoot away w/o messing with the controls much. if you're looking for something like that, the f31 would fit you better. but if you want to be able to play with the settings (even though f31 does have a aperture/shutter priority setting) the g7 would satisfy you a lot more. if you're seriously looking at the g7, check out its review at dpreview.

couple things i noticed:
fuji needs to work on its focusing system a bit..esp in low light. couple of my pics with the f31 came out blurry (like a lens blur, not motion blur) when i was taking pics at long shutter and no flash. it ended up focusing on the background rather than the subject
the longest shutter setting on the f31 is 3 seconds. but surprisingly, it picked up more light and detail in those 3 seconds than my S3 could in 15 seconds. Im pretty sure this has to do with fuji's bigger CCD

You're right. If I want full controls and am taking my time with the shots I'm doing then I use dslr like nikon d50. From a p&s point of view the fuji is more efficient and gets les noisy, sharp, clear pictures with minimal work. My logic is that the fuji is easily the better p&s.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Steven T
Hey, what about the g7? Does it do as well as the f31fd?

completely different class of camera. f31 is an ultracompact P&S with very minimal manual controls. g7 is a compact with full manual controls. if ur looking at the g7, i say just wait and get the S5IS instead. g7 will let you get a lot more creative than the f31fd. but g7's sensor is smaller (like all other canon compacts) than the f31's, so you might see more noise than f31. i say might because ive never played with the g7

the G7's sensor is marginally smaller than the f31's. (1/1.7" v 1/1.8"). they are both much larger than the typical compact camera. (1/2.5") almost 2x the size.

but the fuji slightly outpunches its weight due to the unique way the imaging sites are structured. it uses a combination of both large and small photodiodes to achieve higher sensitivities. fuji press release.

 

[Steven T]

^^^ Interesting

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Steven T
Hey, what about the g7? Does it do as well as the f31fd?

completely different class of camera. f31 is an ultracompact P&S with very minimal manual controls. g7 is a compact with full manual controls. if ur looking at the g7, i say just wait and get the S5IS instead. g7 will let you get a lot more creative than the f31fd. but g7's sensor is smaller (like all other canon compacts) than the f31's, so you might see more noise than f31. i say might because ive never played with the g7

the G7's sensor is marginally smaller than the f31's. (1/1.7" v 1/1.8"). they are both much larger than the typical compact camera. (1/2.5") almost 2x the size.

but the fuji slightly outpunches its weight due to the unique way the imaging sites are structured. it uses a combination of both large and small photodiodes to achieve higher sensitivities. fuji press release.

ok cool. didnt know a G7 uses a 1/1.8" sensor. my S3 has a 1/2.5" so i thought the G7 uses the same size sensor. actually the new S5 uses a 1/2.5" sensor too. interesting. wonder why they didnt put a sensor in the S5 like in the G7

 

[kalster]

my wife has the older f20 and its a very good camera

 

[LordSnailz]

if both the 800is and the f31fd were the same price, which one would be the better pick?
Also, is the canon IS feature enough to pick the 800 over the f31fd?

 

[kalster]

i think the high iso performance of the fujis' is far better than that of canon or any other p&s camera in the market

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: LordSnailz
if both the 800is and the f31fd were the same price, which one would be the better pick?
Also, is the canon IS feature enough to pick the 800 over the f31fd?

I have an S3IS. IS helps in low light, but I still find it easier to take cleaner hand held low light shots with the f31 w/o IS. fuji's better sensor makes IS in canons insignificant in low light.
Only time Ive seen IS really help is in full telephoto on the S3 (12x zoom).
When I bought the S3, I chose it over the Fuji F6000fd only because of IS. But now, after seeing how good fuji's sensor is, im really rethinking my purchase.

Originally posted by: kalster
i think the high iso performance of the fujis' is far better than that of canon or any other p&s camera in the market

as my links show earlier, it's not only low light where the f31 dominates (when it comes to noise). even in daylight setting, I get noise in the sky with my S3 @ ISO 100. but no noise whatsoever with the f31 at the same ISO and same setting

 

[Steven T]

Originally posted by: LordSnailz
if both the 800is and the f31fd were the same price, which one would be the better pick?
Also, is the canon IS feature enough to pick the 800 over the f31fd?

The fuji is defintely better. Actually, the SD700 (slightly oder model) is better than the SD800. According to highly respected dpreview.com, the sd700 takes better quality pictures despite canons "upgraded digy III processor" or whatever.

I just ended up buying both the SD700 and the F31fd. I got a fantastic deal and will probably make a couple bucks extra when I sell off the one i don't like on ebay. Actually, I am already pretty sure it's going to be the fuji that I keep.

Man o man.. I saw some pictures taken with the f31fd on DPreview and my jaw dropped. I was astonished by the quality. I looked at the SD700 gallery and they were really fantastic but not jaw dropping like the fuji gallery.

 

[Aharami]

sweet. take some side by side comparison pics with both cameras and post them here.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Aharami

ok cool. didnt know a G7 uses a 1/1.8" sensor. my S3 has a 1/2.5" so i thought the G7 uses the same size sensor. actually the new S5 uses a 1/2.5" sensor too. interesting. wonder why they didnt put a sensor in the S5 like in the G7

superzoom lens is smaller on a smaller sensor, for one thing (and is probably the main reason). i think all superzoom cameras are 1/2.5". panasonic used to make them with even smaller sensor (FZ3, for instance, but it had a constant f/2.8 lens).

the S5 has a 6 to 72 mm lens. if you used a sensor twice the size you'd need a 12 to 144 lens to cover the same range. as the area of the lens increases with the square of the length, and weight increases with the cube, you end up with a much larger lens. you probably can't keep the same respectable speeds (f/2.7-3.5) either.

Originally posted by: Steven T
I just ended up buying both the SD700 and the F31fd. I got a fantastic deal and will probably make a couple bucks extra when I sell off the one i don't like on ebay. Actually, I am already pretty sure it's going to be the fuji that I keep.

get some developed to make your comparison.

 

[Aharami]

^^ this forum is quite educational. didnt know all that. Thanks ElFenix

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

the S5 has a 6 to 72 mm lens. if you used a sensor twice the size you'd need a 12 to 144 lens to cover the same range. as the area of the lens increases with the square of the length, and weight increases with the cube, you end up with a much larger lens. you probably can't keep the same respectable speeds (f/2.7-3.5) either.

Yup yup. Just to give some more quantitativeness to this:

S5: 6-72mm f/2.7-3.5 (crop factor 6x)

The "f" in the aperture value actually stands for focal length! The value that you get when you do this division is the diameter of the actual aperture opening.

So at 72mm and wide open at f/3.5, the actual diameter of the aperture opening is 72mm / 3.5 = 20.6mm = 2cm = 0.8 inches

With this being said, at least one of the glass elements on the lens of the S5 needs to be at least 0.8 inches in diameter, and the lens barrel itself needs to be at least 0.8 inches (certainly more because of internal electronics/motors crammed inside and the actual housing itself).

Now let's switch to Fuji's awesome P&S sensors, which are bigger than Canon's at 1/1.7" (compared to Canon's 1/2.5" sensors). If Fuji wanted to make a super zoom with the same range as the S5, it would need an 8-96mm f/2.7-3.5 lens (crop factor 4.5x).

Using the same math as above, the lens would need to be at least 96mm / 3.5 = 27.4mm = 2.74cm = 1.1 inches in diameter, but definitely more because of the housing, electronics, etc.

If there was a camera with a sensor diagonal twice the size as the one on the S5, the focal length would be 12-144mm f/2.7-3.5, like Elfenix said. The diameter of the lens would then need to be at least 144mm / 3.5 = 41mm = 4.1cm = 1.6 inches, but more like 2 inches for the housing and electronics.

A 2 inch wide lens is a big lens that's no longer pocketable and harder and more expensive to manufacture. It's hard to justify this for a consumer camera or even a prosumer camera.