Hanging flags upside down

[IHateMyJob2004]

this weekend I went home to Western New York and I was actually offended by some of my moms neighbors hanging their flags upside down.

My mom said that they are both veterans and earned that right. My mom is another republican. So was my dad(passed on) but if he saw that, he would be pissed off (EDIT: maybe,maybe not after learning what the symbolism is (read below)).

In my mind, hanging a flag upside down is against protocol and anti-American. "The terrorists have won" went through my head more than once. So, what is your thought on this?

I'm off to research this matter.

EDIT: OK, it is the standard sign of distress. I guess it comes down to timing of when the people decided to do this.

EDIT 2: Regarding "The terrorists have won" comment. If people are upset over the election and think Obama will be weaker against terrorism, then the goal of terrorists destroying a nation is becoming evident. They have divided us.

 

[dphantom]

It is inappropriate to hang the flag upside down except as you have found when it can be so displayed to signal distress.

They need to find another way to express their displeasure rather than using the flag.

 

[Possessed Freak]

I would sooner see some sort hybrid art flag made with the disappointment of choice on it (be it some hybrid socialist flag of choice + American, or whatever the case may be). Of course, with Freedom of Speech the flag laws are completely unenforceable (technically you can't draw a flag on something or wear the flag as clothing or whatnot).

[edit]I can state that two of my ultra-conservative friends stated they won't be flying the Flag for the next 4 years. I laughed at them and said... what if the guy actually does a good job!?[/edit]

 

[alien42]

what does being a Republican have to do with how one hangs their flag?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

A flag is just a symbol. I don't honestly care what somebody does to a flag provided it's actually their flag and they aren't defacing someone else's property. If they want to hang the flag upside-down, good for them. It's obviously a powerful way to communicate displeasure or distress; it got to you to the degree that you felt the need to voice your displeasure on an internet forum. I don't know why we place so much weight on the flag, nor why that particular brand of communication is so effective (if he had been in the street shouting, you probably wouldn't have posted about it), but there you go.

That said, this whole "terrorists have won" line is complete and utter bullshit. In the words of the great patriot Teddy Roosevelt, "to announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." The same is true of the government as a whole. Criticizing the government isn't a sign that the terrorists have won, it's a sign that patriotism is alive and well in this country, and that true patriots realize the difference between a bullshit "us or them" dichotomy and valid complaints about the state of our government. Or maybe those veterans are terrorists.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

In my mind, hanging a flag upside down is against protocol and anti-American. "The terrorists have won" went through my head more than once. So, what is your thought on this?

*facepalm*

 

[fleshconsumed]

A disclaimer: I'm naturalized citizen (wasn't born here)

I have no qualms about hanging the flag upside down, burning it, or even using it as a doormat. After all, burning flag is just burning physical representation of a symbol, it's no different than making voodoo doll of your boss and sticking it with needles. Ok, you might want to check with a psychiatrist if you do that, but the point is you sticking voodoo doll with needles does no harm to the actual person. To me, the freedom to do as you please as long as your actions do no harm to others is far more important than acting up on superficial ideas of patriotism. The notion of being patriotic just because you oppose flag burning (or hanging it upside down) is one of the most ridiculous idea I have ever encountered and it usually comes from uneducated people who feel the need to belong. If anything, allowing someone to burn the flag or hang it upside down is more patriotic than opposing it.

The only reasonable objection to this I can see is that hanging flag upside down is a symbol for distress and is similar to calling for help when you don't actually need it.

 

[mugs]

Being a veteran doesn't "earn" you the right to hang the flag upside down. We ALL have that right, but that doesn't make it any less disrespectful. These veterans are being foolish. People are making such a big deal out of Obama being elected - maybe we should wait until he actually does something before we complain?

I think your "the terrorists have won" comment is silly. That comment in general is getting kind of old.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Hip-Hop Mogul Russel Simmons' clothing line, Phat Farm, uses the upside down flag as its logo. He says it is a political statement meant to signal that the country itself is in distress.

If he can do it, so can your neighbors. They just aren't being very original about it as Phat Farm has been doing it since 1982

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Freedom of speech...anybody got a problem with that?

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
this weekend I went home to Western New York and I was actually offended by some of my moms neighbors hanging their flags upside down.

My mom said that they are both veterans and earned that right. My mom is another republican. So was my dad(passed on) but if he saw that, he would be pissed off (EDIT: maybe,maybe not after learning what the symbolism is (read below)).

In my mind, hanging a flag upside down is against protocol and anti-American. "The terrorists have won" went through my head more than once. So, what is your thought on this?

I'm off to research this matter.

EDIT: OK, it is the standard sign of distress. I guess it comes down to timing of when the people decided to do this.

I've done it a few times myself...like after the 2004 Presidential Elections...I flew my US Flag at half-staff and/or upside down for 30 days...

One neighbor (republican) got pissed and threatened to take it down.

I not-so-politely explained that if he tried, by the time he got out of the hospital, I'd have turned it over and have it back at full staff...

He backed away very slowly...

 

[DealMonkey]

What makes our country truly great is that you can do whatever you want with a flag - hang it upside down, burn it - and it doesn't matter one iota. Frankly, reactions like IHateMyJob2004 make me wonder if they're just worshiping a symbol of America and not truly realizing what makes this country special and great.

If your first thought is "the terrorists have won," then I think you need to spend some more time pondering the nature of America.

 

[AstroManLuca]

You can do it if you want. I think it's a bit of a ham-fisted gesture (like burning the flag) because it basically attacks the entire country rather than being more specific about what it is you're protesting, but no one should be prohibited from doing so if they want. They just leave the door open to judgment by others. Same with flag burning. This is still protected speech.

 

[cwjerome]

Yeah I think it's poor etiquette. Personally I think it's dumb when leftwingers do this type of stuff with the flag and just as dumb when rightwingers do it. Legal? Sure. They have the right to? You bet. But it's also immature and and counterproductive.

 

[wwswimming]

the terrorists have won if we lose the right to hand the flag upside down.

i don't think it's the same as burning the flag. it's an acknowledgment of some wrong connected to America, for example, an objection to the use of Depleted Uranium by American forces (which is then assimilated by local civilians & American forces).

 

[palehorse]

Your neighbors are retarded.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Originally posted by: wwswimming
the terrorists have won if we lose the right to hand the flag upside down.

i don't think it's the same as burning the flag. it's an acknowledgment of some wrong connected to America, for example, an objection to the use of Depleted Uranium by American forces (which is then assimilated by local civilians & American forces).

And yet it conveys nothing of that specific problem. If you want to let the general public know what is ticking you off, why not use the conventional way... bumper stickers. Or if you want to live in the now, blog (whine) about it.

Hanging the flag upside down does not clue anyone in on what is wrong (and personally if I saw it, I would react with honest concern of something wrong/violent happening in the household).

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak

Originally posted by: wwswimming
the terrorists have won if we lose the right to hand the flag upside down.

i don't think it's the same as burning the flag. it's an acknowledgment of some wrong connected to America, for example, an objection to the use of Depleted Uranium by American forces (which is then assimilated by local civilians & American forces).

And yet it conveys nothing of that specific problem. If you want to let the general public know what is ticking you off, why not use the conventional way... bumper stickers. Or if you want to live in the now, blog (whine) about it.

Hanging the flag upside down does not clue anyone in on what is wrong (and personally if I saw it, I would react with honest concern of something wrong/violent happening in the household).

You think that if something wrong or violent happened in a household, someone in the house would go and hang a flag upside-down rather than calling the police, fire, ambulance, friend, relative, etc.? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that someone will hang a flag upside-down on their own house because of emergency within their own house exactly never. Yes, I know the symbolism, but logically, the hanging of the flag upside-down is used because people who salute that flag will know the proper orientation, but an invading army will not, so the invading force will not realize the significance of the flag's orientation because they don't know which way it is normally hung. That doesn't really apply to anyone here since everyone in this country knows which way a flag is normally hung (and most don't know the significance of an upside-down flag anyway).

The people hanging the flags upside-down may have bumper stickers expressing their viewpoint. They may have yard signs. They may blog, they may write angry letters to the editor, they may even post here. We don't know. Why can't they hang a flag upside-down in addition to all those other activities? Clearly it effectively gets a rise out of people, and that's exactly the intention behind the action. I'd say they're getting their message across effectively.

 

[manowar821]

It's a piece of cloth.

 

[Newbian]

Originally posted by: manowar821
It's a piece of Nylon.

 

[KGB]

Originally posted by: Newbian

Originally posted by: manowar821
It's a piece of CHINESE Nylon.

 

[SilentRunning]

Originally posted by: KGBMAN

Originally posted by: Newbian

Originally posted by: manowar821
It's a piece of CHINESE Nylon.

I guess this means the nutjobs can't afford a cotton flag.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: SilentRunning

Originally posted by: KGBMAN

Originally posted by: Newbian

Originally posted by: manowar821
It's a piece of CHINESE Nylon.

I guess this means the nutjobs can't afford a cotton flag.

Cotton flags don't last nearly as long as Nylon flags and aren't "all-weather" so they have to be brought in if it rains...EVERY flag I've ever owned was Made in the USA, and nearly every flag I've ever owned was nylon...with sewn stars and stripes instead of the crappy printed polyester junk that is usually made in China...
(IMO, it should be illegal to sell any American flag that's NOT made in the USA!)

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

I think it's a bit sad that someone gets offended by a upside down flag.

 

[LumbergTech]

someone is a little brainwashed by symbolism..

doing silly shit with a flag in no way threatens what the flag represents..so why get so worked up