If, for the last 50 years God had switched all the babies born in Israel with babies born in Palestine, wouldn't it be the Israelis who were hiding behind their women?
If, for the last 50 years God had switched all the babies born in Israel with babies born in Palestine, wouldn't it be the Israelis who were hiding behind their women?
Wow! Remarkably un-abstract.
Nevertheless, that is an assertion -- care to elaborate a bit?
EDIT: this is about your previous message, about the corruption of Fatah.
Nevertheless, that is an assertion -- care to elaborate a bit?
EDIT: this is about your previous message, about the corruption of Fatah.
I see you in the business of hypothetical scenarios now.
What purpose would this discussion serve?
It ought to be obvious to anybody that the Palestinians and the Israelis are a product of their interactions. You want to fight about who started what, the specifics. I don't give a tinker's damn about the specifics. I am pointing to the actions and reactions. The baby thing was to get you to analyze what you mean by Palestinians hiding behind women since in the same circumstances it would be Israelis hiding behind women, fathers and mothers at war with their own children. We are all the same.
flavio
Diamond Member
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I don't need to put new meanings on indiscriminantly. I could mention that the Israelis have killed far more civilians than the Palestinians but I haven't.
I simply say that given the same firepower I'd imagine their tactics would be more similar. Are you disagreeing with that?
To live peacefully means not to create antagonism
"Obviously what causes war is the desire for power, position, prestige, money; also the disease called nationalism, the worship of a flag; and the disease of organized religion, the worship of a dogma. All these are the causes of war; if you as an individual belong to any of the organized religions, if you are greedy for power, if you are envious, you are bound to produce a society which will result in destruction. So again it depends upon you and not on the leaders ? not on so-called statesmen and all the rest of them. It depends upon you and me but we do not seem to realize that. If once we really felt the responsibility of our own actions, how quickly we could bring to an end all these wars, this appalling misery! But you see, we are indifferent. We have three meals a day, we have our jobs, we have our bank account, big or little, and we say, 'For God?s sake, don?t disturb us, leave us alone'."
- Krishnamurti
I simply say that given the same firepower I'd imagine their tactics would be more similar. Are you disagreeing with that?
To live peacefully means not to create antagonism
"Obviously what causes war is the desire for power, position, prestige, money; also the disease called nationalism, the worship of a flag; and the disease of organized religion, the worship of a dogma. All these are the causes of war; if you as an individual belong to any of the organized religions, if you are greedy for power, if you are envious, you are bound to produce a society which will result in destruction. So again it depends upon you and not on the leaders ? not on so-called statesmen and all the rest of them. It depends upon you and me but we do not seem to realize that. If once we really felt the responsibility of our own actions, how quickly we could bring to an end all these wars, this appalling misery! But you see, we are indifferent. We have three meals a day, we have our jobs, we have our bank account, big or little, and we say, 'For God?s sake, don?t disturb us, leave us alone'."
- Krishnamurti
Moonbeam,
If you don't want to discuss "specifics", then I suggest you use your inner-voice the next time your superiority complex starts to manifest; either condescend to our "level", or patronize your own family, and not us.
Maybe under the same circumstances that Mullah Nasrudin of yours would've hidden behind women and children as well, but I guess we'll never know.
Apparently you do, otherwise you would not have characterized a misfire as a massacre.
Go ahead and mention the numbers, but do keep on ignoring the responsibility they have for collateral deaths when they draw fire into their own population.
If you don't want to discuss "specifics", then I suggest you use your inner-voice the next time your superiority complex starts to manifest; either condescend to our "level", or patronize your own family, and not us.
Maybe under the same circumstances that Mullah Nasrudin of yours would've hidden behind women and children as well, but I guess we'll never know.
Apparently you do, otherwise you would not have characterized a misfire as a massacre.
Go ahead and mention the numbers, but do keep on ignoring the responsibility they have for collateral deaths when they draw fire into their own population.
flavio
Diamond Member
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I did not mention a misfire or a massacre...just the facts.
You have repeatedly ignored the same question "that given the same firepower I'd imagine their tactics would be more similar. Are you disagreeing with that?"
Are you afraid of examining that issue?
What issue? The diversion you are trying to create by proposing a hypothetical scenario?
Facts are these guys intentionally target civilians, and then run to hide behind their women and children. If that's not enough, they are also indoctrinating all the children their with hate, and the despicable concept of martydom. All this while they stole & squandered billions of dollars in aid money.
If you're proposing to arm such a group with high-tech weapons, just to verify your theory, then you have one too many screws loose.
Moonbeam,
If you don't want to discuss "specifics", then I suggest you use your inner-voice the next time your superiority complex starts to manifest; either condescend to our "level", or patronize your own family, and not us.
Oh no, not till I have you groveling in the dirt with your inferiority, not till I've wiped you nose in your ass, not till you are crushed and utterly humiliated. You threw a stone at me. Your ass is mud if it takes 1000 years. No insignificant little piece of dirt is going to muss up my hair. I am so vastly superior to you that you don't even show on the scale. Beware who you throw stones at my sad little Palestinian dog because I was taught to get even.
Oh man, I'm so superior to you I'm having an orgasm. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Is that tiny speck on my shoe you?
By the way, the specifics you worship I won't discuss because they are just links in a chain of cause and effect that tapers off into prehistory. You, not me, is trapped in that past, the endless regurgitation of grievance piled on grievance. To partake of that is to doom your own children. You have been a fool but it can't be otherwise. Only now can you change.
If you don't want to discuss "specifics", then I suggest you use your inner-voice the next time your superiority complex starts to manifest; either condescend to our "level", or patronize your own family, and not us.
Oh no, not till I have you groveling in the dirt with your inferiority, not till I've wiped you nose in your ass, not till you are crushed and utterly humiliated. You threw a stone at me. Your ass is mud if it takes 1000 years. No insignificant little piece of dirt is going to muss up my hair. I am so vastly superior to you that you don't even show on the scale. Beware who you throw stones at my sad little Palestinian dog because I was taught to get even.
Oh man, I'm so superior to you I'm having an orgasm. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Is that tiny speck on my shoe you?
By the way, the specifics you worship I won't discuss because they are just links in a chain of cause and effect that tapers off into prehistory. You, not me, is trapped in that past, the endless regurgitation of grievance piled on grievance. To partake of that is to doom your own children. You have been a fool but it can't be otherwise. Only now can you change.
Yawn, he says as he kills his children. You are a fool, as I said. And what for you would be a gigantic effort is for me, in my infinite superiority, actually extremely easy.
You are a programmed robot that mutters about your pain and your pain only, while gladly inflicting endless pain on others. You are the garbage that destroys the world. But for the infinitely superior, like myself, there is nothing to do but love you for you have no idea what you do.
flavio
Diamond Member
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It's no diversion. It's the very reason for the tactics you bleat on about. You want to villify them for these tactics but won't for a second consider why they use them. That is true ignorance. If they had jets I'm sure they would flying them.
The Israelis intentionally target civilians and kill a hell of a lot more civilians than the Palestinians.
The Israelis indoctrinate their children with hate as well and the concept of martydom. In fact "dying for your country" is considered a noble cause in the US too.
The Israelis squander much more aid money then the Palestinians, but that's ok with you too.
This whole "when Israel does it it's ok" thing you have going is very hypocritical.
They did; to be accurate, their "brothers" -- who keep them in refugee camps -- did it on their behalf in 1948, 1967, and 1973. But, of course, we shouldn't get into boring details like how come they don't even have the West Bank and Gaza strinp anymore.....
For "intentionally" targetting civilians, they are doing pretty badly: it takes them at least one year to accomplish what Jordan did during Black September.
Do you really want to compare a certain level of patriotism with strapping on a bomb and indiscriminately killing civilians?
In Israel it is not so much as patriotism, but more of survival.
Anyway, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about.
Love your assertions. Maybe one day you'll elaborate.
Damn! You got me.
flavio
Diamond Member
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So right, if Palestinians had jets they'd use them too.
So you agree Israel is doing better at killing civilians then Palestine.
I'm comparing dying for your country to dying for your country and killing civilians to killing civilians. It's about survival just as much in Palestine.
Did I miss you elaborating on your assertion?
You made your bias pretty obvious. Wasn't hard.
They would use them -- unprovoked.
Lame.... they are better at hiding behind women and children.
That's right, the suicide bomber is all about survival.
Ask, and it shall be answered.
Sarcasm -- look it up.
flavio
Diamond Member
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There's no shortage of provocation.
Maybe Israel is just better at killing civilians.
Survival of Palestine.
Ignoring the actions of one side and condemning the actions of the other is just what keeps this perpetuating. If you could recognize that's it's just a cycle of violence with retaliation for retaliation for retaliation then you'd have the kind of understanding that could make a difference.
Instead you're only interested in laying blame on one side while ignoring all the wrongs of the other side. Just what both parties involved are doing. There's plenty of blame to go around on both sides and failing to recognize that just keeps the cycle going.
You must be unware why the UNSC convened recently, and it wasn't to condemn any rocket launching by Hamas.
Also, what do you think all that Iranian & Co. money is used for? To build kindergartens in Gaza? Me thinks not....
Survival of Palestine -- bah..... You really can't come up with something better to justify a suicide bomber, do you?
I suppose 7/7 and Madrid were about the "survival of Iraq", while 9/11 was about the "survival of Jihadi-stan", right?
Also, what do you think all that Iranian & Co. money is used for? To build kindergartens in Gaza? Me thinks not....
Survival of Palestine -- bah..... You really can't come up with something better to justify a suicide bomber, do you?
I suppose 7/7 and Madrid were about the "survival of Iraq", while 9/11 was about the "survival of Jihadi-stan", right?
flavio
Diamond Member
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What are you trying to say about Iranian money. I don't try to justify suicide bombings any more than you advocate Israel being able to kill children at will with more effective means.
I simply try to understand why they both happen and can see that it's endless retaliation against the other side where nobody is innocent in the least. Ignoring the massive number of wrongs committed by Israel and only focusing on what the other side does is ignorance and only perpetuates the problem.
Again with poor children :roll:
Don't worry, if they aren't "intentionally" targetted by Israel, then those terrorists will either fake their death, or strap a bomb on them. So, strapping an explosive belt on a kid is also part of "survival", and "resistance", right?
Maybe you should try harder to understand: both Hamas and Fatah have it in their charter the destruction of Israel, and the Iraninans & Co provide them with money exactly for that purpose. Surprisingly enough, you can't negotiate with someone who wants you dead.
Don't worry, if they aren't "intentionally" targetted by Israel, then those terrorists will either fake their death, or strap a bomb on them. So, strapping an explosive belt on a kid is also part of "survival", and "resistance", right?
Maybe you should try harder to understand: both Hamas and Fatah have it in their charter the destruction of Israel, and the Iraninans & Co provide them with money exactly for that purpose. Surprisingly enough, you can't negotiate with someone who wants you dead.
Which is exactly why you can't be reached or negotiated with, and this point too you will completely miss.
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