Halo 3 Natively runs at 640p?

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: nace186
The potential issue with 768 lines is how high quality a 720->768 scaling is implemented by the screen when fed video."

Indeed. Some scalers are certainly better than other, but there is no scaler in the world that can retain a hard edge with even the slightest of scale, unless the pixels are exactly doubled. (1440p) In some ways, scaling so little, from 720 to 768, is even worse than a much larger scale, because theres not enough room for the sharp edges be well interpolated.

Its very hard to notice scaling in action on a photograph, especially motion video, but any source with hard edges like a video game without AA, or menu text etc, definitely suffers in the process.

 

[EvilComputer92]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92
QFT. Where did that stupid 1366x768 resolution come from anyway? If everything else is 1280x720, why make TVs with that kind of resolution?

I've heard a bunch of explanations. Its derivative of 1024x768. 1366x768 is very close to 1 megapixel. Its easier to scale to from all other resolutions. The most convincing explanation Ive heard - most people think more is better, so 768>720, therefore, 768 is better, and if everyone else's panel is 768p, you'd better be making 768p as well.

upscaling an already upscaled image is just beyond stupid, and I can't believe Bungie didn't think about this.

I'm sure they did - its one of those things that makes the A/V nerd inside me shudder, but since everyone is used to a scaled image, they probably wouldnt notice a scaled scaled image.

They should have made games and TV programming also run in 1366x768. The resolution gap between the two seems like the TV manufactures and Broadcasting companies were working completely oblivious to each other.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

I'll be honest. I have an SD tv. I took my 360 to my dad's house yesterday to see what stuff would look like in HD cuz I'm getting one. Well Halo still looked about the same as it did on my SD except it was shinier. Gears of War looked omg wtf 1,000 times better than it did on my SD.

At the end of the day though I don't really care because I'm really freakin enjoying Halo. I really like it. I will admit that it isn't the greatest graphics but that isn't realluy why I play games.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92
QFT. Where did that stupid 1366x768 resolution come from anyway? If everything else is 1280x720, why make TVs with that kind of resolution?

I've heard a bunch of explanations. Its derivative of 1024x768. 1366x768 is very close to 1 megapixel. Its easier to scale to from all other resolutions. The most convincing explanation Ive heard - most people think more is better, so 768>720, therefore, 768 is better, and if everyone else's panel is 768p, you'd better be making 768p as well.

upscaling an already upscaled image is just beyond stupid, and I can't believe Bungie didn't think about this.

I'm sure they did - its one of those things that makes the A/V nerd inside me shudder, but since everyone is used to a scaled image, they probably wouldnt notice a scaled scaled image.

They should have made games and TV programming also run in 1366x768. The resolution gap between the two seems like the TV manufactures and Broadcasting companies were working completely oblivious to each other.

The best part of all? Even though those panels are 768p, they rarely can accept a true 768p signal over component, requiring DVI, VGA, and often a fair bit of hacking. It even took a few years for Nvidia and Ati to support a true 1366x768 output, and I'm not even sure they still can do it with ease. I certainly refuse to buy one...waiting for the real 1080p sets to drop in price.

 

[mlm]

Originally posted by: BD2003
I'd say at the end of the day, the fact that it supposedly has 1080p on the box, yet doesnt even come close to supporting it, is a bit bigger of a deal than it actually being 640p instead of 720p.

In comparison, even if a PS3 game supports 1080 scaling, the box still only says 720p.

 

[skyofavalon]

there isnt a person on the planet that can tell the difference between 640p and 720p .They should make all 360 games 640p if they can add extra eye candy and higher frame rates.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: skyofavalon
there isnt a person on the planet that can tell the difference between 640p and 720p .They should make all 360 games 640p if they can add extra eye candy and higher frame rates.

Id have *zero* problem telling them apart side by side. Truth of the matter is, 360 games would have more eye candy if they didnt have to support HD in the first place, if they all ran at 480p. But they decided to go HD. If theyre going to claim the system or game is HD, they should at the very least adhere to HD standards.

 

[mugs]

Can we stop saying 640p and 1440p and 560p... as noted by the Bungie dude, those aren't resolutions. They're numbers with a letter after them.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: mugs
Can we stop saying 640p and 1440p and 560p... as noted by the Bungie dude, those aren't resolutions. They're numbers with a letter after them.

Theyre only numbers with letters after them if you disregard what theyre supposed to stand for, like bungie apparently did with 720p AND 1080p.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: mugs
Can we stop saying 640p and 1440p and 560p... as noted by the Bungie dude, those aren't resolutions. They're numbers with a letter after them.

Theyre only numbers with letters after them if you disregard what theyre supposed to stand for, like bungie apparently did with 720p AND 1080p.

640p and 1440p and 560p don't stand for anything. 720p and 1080p do (1280x720 and 1920x1080). 640p is not a standard resolution. My first thought when I read this thread was "how many horizontal pixels are there?" Because even if Bungie was only rendering 640 vertical pixels, there's nothing to stop them from rendering 1280 horizontal pixels and then stretching it vertically only. 640p, 1440p, 560p, and most other p numbers are not display standards. They're made up, ambiguous terms.

Bungie didn't disregard what 720p and 1080p mean. You end up with a 720p or 1080p image that doesn't have to be scaled by your TV, right? What is done internally to achieve that is not relevant to that. This is akin to a TV station broadcasting in 720p with some commercials that aren't HD. My TV still tells me that it's 720p, because it's receiving a 720p signal - but it's really just a SD source upscaled.

All of this bickering about numbers is ridiculous. Does it look good? Is it a fun game? If so, buy it. If not, don't.

<--- not buying it

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: mugs
Can we stop saying 640p and 1440p and 560p... as noted by the Bungie dude, those aren't resolutions. They're numbers with a letter after them.

Theyre only numbers with letters after them if you disregard what theyre supposed to stand for, like bungie apparently did with 720p AND 1080p.

640p and 1440p and 560p don't stand for anything. 720p and 1080p do (1280x720 and 1920x1080). 640p is not a standard resolution. My first thought when I read this thread was "how many horizontal pixels are there?" Because even if Bungie was only rendering 640 vertical pixels, there's nothing to stop them from rendering 1280 horizontal pixels and then stretching it vertically only. 640p, 1440p, 560p, and most other p numbers are not display standards. They're made up, ambiguous terms.

Forgive me for assuming that one could see past such semantics and technicalities to get to the point. I assumed its still dealing with square pixels internally, so lets just assume its 1140x640. The point is, its basically "cheating" to get to 720p.

Bungie didn't disregard what 720p and 1080p mean. You end up with a 720p or 1080p image that doesn't have to be scaled by your TV, right? What is done internally to achieve that is not relevant to that. This is akin to a TV station broadcasting in 720p with some commercials that aren't HD. My TV still tells me that it's 720p, because it's receiving a 720p signal - but it's really just a SD source upscaled.

It might not be relevant to the display, as all it really wants is a 720p (or 1080p) signal, but it is relevant to your eyes.

And its still the principle of the matter. Its sloppy and it shouldnt be ignored, or else HD means nothing, and we might as well call upscaled Wii games HD. Every other 360 game can manage to put out a "true" 720p without resorting to hacks (AFAIK), why can't halo 3?

All of this bickering about numbers is ridiculous. Does it look good? Is it a fun game? If so, buy it. If not, don't.

<--- not buying it

This isnt a thread over whether its a fun game or not. Theres others for that

 

[EvilComputer92]

Originally posted by: mugs
All of this bickering about numbers is ridiculous. Does it look good? Is it a fun game? If so, buy it. If not, don't.

<--- not buying it

No it's not ridiculous. It worsens the graphics in an otherwise excellent game. If you don't want to believe that your missing 184320 pixels, in addition to not being able to notice the large amounts of scaling being done, well I wonder then how you can notice the difference between HD and non HD resolutions in the first place.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92

Originally posted by: mugs
All of this bickering about numbers is ridiculous. Does it look good? Is it a fun game? If so, buy it. If not, don't.

<--- not buying it

No it's not ridiculous. It worsens the graphics in an otherwise excellent game. If you don't want to believe that your missing 184320 pixels, in addition to not being able to notice the large amounts of scaling being done, well I wonder then how you can notice the difference between HD and non HD resolutions in the first place.

Yeah, see I didn't say I don't believe there are "missing" pixels, and I didn't say I wouldn't be able to notice the scaling. I simply asked if it looks good and if it's a fun game. A game CAN look good with fewer pixels. :Q

As for the difference between HD and non HD... by my calculations, 480p = 307,200 pixels. 1138x640 = 728,320 pixels. 720p = 921,600 pixels.

480p has 1/3 the number of pixels that 720p has. 1138x640 has 79% of the number of pixels 720p has. Big difference.

But I still enjoy games that are only 480p.

 

[bigpow]

AFAIK, there's no 640p;
480i, 480p, 1080i, 720p, 1080p