Halliburton's cementing of Deepwater Horizon's drill may have caused blowout

[Sclamoz]

So, it's your contention that a bigger Government can protect us from accidents and/or human error?

I'm sure you're right...

I stubbed my toe yesterday on an uneven sidewalk and it really REALLY hurts... damnit, where was the Gubment when I needed 'em?!

Nothing can stop bad things from happening 100% of the time but effective regulation can help to minimize incidents like this. For example:

"There was a big debate under the Bush administration whether or not to require additional oil drilling safeguards but [federal regulators] decided not to require any additional mandatory safeguards, believing the industry would be motivated to do it themselves," Carl Pope, Chairman of the Sierra Club told ABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/bp-fought-safety-measures-deepwater-oil-rigs/story?id=10521078

So if instead of trusting the private sector to do this on their own the government regulated it and inspected all of the rigs we wouldn't have a massive oil spill in the gulf right now.

 

[shira]

You, being one of the mega-"progressives" of the forum, first are posting this only because it gives negative press to Halliburton which you hope will reflect even more negatively on Cheney then Bush then all of Republicans, you know it I know it everyone else here knows it. And you are also basing your judgment on a false assumption that the government knows oil drilling better than private industry, as if more regulations would have conclusively prevented this accident.

You've entirely missed my point, which is understandable considering your distorted politics.

Nowhere have I contended that government knows oil drilling or any other proprietary-information type of thing remotely as well as private industry. But what private industry is terrible at is balancing self-interest with the potential costs to society of their actions. Top executives make decisions based on short-term calculations of risk versus reward, which may be great for them personally but can be horrible for everyone else.

Right-wing ideologues always think deregulation = "innovation", as if that's the only consideration. They and you are fools.

 

[Thump553]

An interesting blog post on point:

http://blog.iongeo.com/?p=1961

Please note that the primary expert in that conference call was a TransOcean retiree (TransOcean was the owner of the oil rig).

It's pretty clear that just about every opinion or hypothesis at this point is almost pure speculation, the facts just aren't out yet.

 

[piasabird]

To hell with blame how do we stop the leak?

 

[PottedMeat]

To hell with blame how do we stop the leak?

i propose something involving nukes.

 

[evident]

To hell with blame how do we stop the leak?

this.


while im not an enviro-nut, i do appreciate the outdoors, especially the ocean, and this is a fucking travesty that really saddens me :thumbsdown:

 

[JSt0rm]

the coast guard said today they are having luck breaking the oil up as it pumps out. If they can do that for 3 months while the new holes are drilled then this might not become an apocalypse of biblical proportions. Lets hope.

 

[OutHouse]

You're 100% correct. Why expand government and taxes for something the private sector can take care of? That is assuming they will...


The oil rig, the mine explosion, Goldman Sachs/Lehman Brothers/Bernie Madoff etc. all just isolated incidents that we can feel safe won't happen again thanks to the free market! No sense getting the government involved.

wow you really believe that government is the answer to everything?

 

[nobodyknows]

you're 100% correct. Why expand government and taxes for something the private sector can take care of? That is assuming they will...


The oil rig, the mine explosion, goldman sachs/lehman brothers/bernie madoff etc. All just isolated incidents that we can feel safe won't happen again thanks to the free market! No sense getting the government involved.

qft

 

[ElFenix]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/bp-fought-safety-measures-deepwater-oil-rigs/story?id=10521078

So if instead of trusting the private sector to do this on their own the government regulated it and inspected all of the rigs we wouldn't have a massive oil spill in the gulf right now.

we don't necessarily know that.

 

[EagleKeeper]

So if instead of trusting the private sector to do this on their own the government regulated it and inspected all of the rigs we wouldn't have a massive oil spill in the gulf right now.

The government does not have the manpower and/or knowledge most of the time.

They hire a company to do the investigations/analysis for them that should have the expertise required.

 

[Genx87]

Nothing can stop bad things from happening 100% of the time but effective regulation can help to minimize incidents like this. For example:




http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/bp-fought-safety-measures-deepwater-oil-rigs/story?id=10521078

So if instead of trusting the private sector to do this on their own the government regulated it and inspected all of the rigs we wouldn't have a massive oil spill in the gulf right now.

A blanket we need more regulation without knowing wtf happened is just plain stupid.

 

[spidey07]

Last I read on a forum that has some folks who design these things is there is a blowout protection valve (BPV) on every well that is supposed to prevent this. And it has redundancy on top of redundancy. The conjecture is that must have had multiple failures for the blowout to happen which is why they can't just "trip" the BPV and have the site shut down.

 

[ayabe]

Heard on NPR this morning that the check valve that's supposed to close and stop the leak, the piece that failed completely, isn't certified to operate at that depth.

Not only that, but apparently, the parties involved, including the requisite federal agencies have known about this for some time, yet nothing was done.

So just like with the SEC, coal mines, etc, the government has the tools in many cases to regulate these various industries but it's not getting done.

Why? Is it straight up bribes from the industries involved, pressure from Congress or the Executive branch to "go easy" because of bribes to their campaigns, lobbyists....all three?

 

[HumblePie]

Heard on NPR this morning that the check valve that's supposed to close and stop the leak, the piece that failed completely, isn't certified to operate at that depth.

Not only that, but apparently, the parties involved, including the requisite federal agencies have known about this for some time, yet nothing was done.

So just like with the SEC, coal mines, etc, the government has the tools in many cases to regulate these various industries but it's not getting done.

Why? Is it straight up bribes from the industries involved, pressure from Congress or the Executive branch to "go easy" because of bribes to their campaigns, lobbyists....all three?

Bribes are just free market!

 

[xj0hnx]

Not only that, but apparently, the parties involved, including the requisite federal agencies have known about this for some time, yet nothing was done.

So just like with the SEC, coal mines, etc, the government has the tools in many cases to regulate these various industries but it's not getting done.

Now wait a minute, Sclumoz JUST said that more government regulation will protect us from the bad men, this can't be true.

 

[Pulsar]

Nothing can stop bad things from happening 100% of the time but effective regulation can help to minimize incidents like this. For example:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/bp-fought-safety-measures-deepwater-oil-rigs/story?id=10521078

So if instead of trusting the private sector to do this on their own the government regulated it and inspected all of the rigs we wouldn't have a massive oil spill in the gulf right now.

>>Chairman of the Sierra Club<<

I'm so sick of this crap. Why not go talk to the folks involved in these jobs?

Monday morning quarterbacking from someone with a major conflict of interest isn't surprising and frankly has little to know weight in an honest discussion about what can be done to prevent this sort of thing in the future.

 

[cubby1223]

This argument is pointless.

It's always big government vs. small government.

We have to *first* establish that this will be smart government, not incompetent government. You can build up all the regulations, all the agencies, all the oversight you want - it doesn't matter!

Does anyone here have any faith in our elected representatives to set up smart government? Both sides of the aisle were blindsided by the financial collapse.

 

[xj0hnx]

Both sides of the aisle were blindsided by the financial collapse.

I disagree. I believe they knew full well what was coming, it was just too profitable to let go. Everyone involved knew the risk, the rewards were just too great.

 

[Descartes]

This argument is pointless.

It's always big government vs. small government.

We have to *first* establish that this will be smart government, not incompetent government. You can build up all the regulations, all the agencies, all the oversight you want - it doesn't matter!

Does anyone here have any faith in our elected representatives to set up smart government? Both sides of the aisle were blindsided by the financial collapse.

IMO, you're very naive if you believe that. Anyone that's been in business long enough realizes that each day there are arguably hundreds of things that people in positions of leadership ignore to the potential disaster of others. This is as true for private as it is public enterprise.

The American culture simply promotes the most tactical, cheap, easy way out. When the best way is misaligned with the most profitable way, "accidents" happen. Every industry, from healthcare to manufacturing, is so fraught with ignored regulation. The beauty of the American system *used* to be the ability to fail and fail fast. Try, fail, improve and try again. Too big to fail has destroyed commerce in this country, like a vine in the garden that destroys all the other plants when you try to rip it out as it takes everything else with it.

The whole mindset of American business, and citizens for that matter, is that this second is all that matters. "Get it done!", in a vacuum with no consideration for the future. No amount of intervention, government or otherwise, will correct this.

The trouble I have is that I know government isn't the answer. I also know private enterprise isn't the answer. What's left? In my mind, we need to go back pre-Jack Welch, to a time when the par value of a share wasn't the entire motivation behind one's actions. What we need is a change of perspective, something that I believe will only come when it's far too late.

Why we're all beholden to company's like Halliburton is beyond me. "Oh, but they provide all the R&D dollars!" is probably the most likely excuse. Bullshit. It's the same bullshit as it is with the auto industry, healthcare, financial, etc. Too big to fail baby. Too big to fail.

If we can't fail fast, we can't have a free market that is nimble enough to respond to a market's needs.

 

[RedCOMET]

Heard on NPR this morning that the check valve that's supposed to close and stop the leak, the piece that failed completely, isn't certified to operate at that depth.

Not only that, but apparently, the parties involved, including the requisite federal agencies have known about this for some time, yet nothing was done.

So just like with the SEC, coal mines, etc, the government has the tools in many cases to regulate these various industries but it's not getting done.

Why? Is it straight up bribes from the industries involved, pressure from Congress or the Executive branch to "go easy" because of bribes to their campaigns, lobbyists....all three?

Perhaps TOI and BP had an exemption from MMS to use the check valve. Its not like MMS hasn't visited the rig during the course of well being drilled.

I don't think he said that.

Unless it's ultimately found that this was a freak accident with no reasonable way to prevent it, we DO need to see more gov regulation here. You cannot have any private entity doing things in the public space that could cause incredible damage for which it lacks the resources to wholly make right. Just as I cannot drag race on highways and simply promise that if I make a mistake I'll pay for it. What if I cannot pay for it?

The MMS flies inspectors to these rigs to observe operations and to check paper work, etc to ensure compliance of federal regulations. Depending on safety trends in the Gulf, they may focus on some things more closely than other things ( like cops) during their visit, but its not like the govt is hands off or anything. Deviations from the permit to drill requires having an exemption from the MMS in order to proceed.

Having worked on many TransOceans rigs( and a few other rigs by other companies.Ensco, Diamond Offshore and Noble Energy) as a subcontractor, I will say that safety and following procedures is a part of the culture. Many rigs and the companies that operate them, let me be the Majors orthe independents, they have strong HSE policies,too and those policies are part of their core values.

 

[RedCOMET]

An interesting blog post on point:

http://blog.iongeo.com/?p=1961

Please note that the primary expert in that conference call was a TransOcean retiree (TransOcean was the owner of the oil rig).

It's pretty clear that just about every opinion or hypothesis at this point is almost pure speculation, the facts just aren't out yet.

Thump, Thanks for the link. This radio phone interview was also on that site. I found it informative and I think it gives a good perspective as to what happened that night.

http://blog.iongeo.com/?p=1989

 

[johnwalker2010]

Twenty (20) hours after completing the cementation of the production casing. Why was the drill pipe, doing still conected to the production casing??? Maybe they could not disconect for some important reason. The reversal of posible cement in the riser through DP takes no more than 1 hr. Pipe should had been at the rig floor.

 

[sao123]

This argument is pointless.

It's always big government vs. small government.

We have to *first* establish that this will be smart government, not incompetent government. You can build up all the regulations, all the agencies, all the oversight you want - it doesn't matter!

Does anyone here have any faith in our elected representatives to set up smart government? Both sides of the aisle were blindsided by the financial collapse.

well since government runs by elections... its nothing more than a popoularity contest. This guarantees the smartest, most qualified candidate will never get into office. Smart government = oxymoron. Logical fallacy. DNE.