Half of U.S. now in poverty

[rudder]

According to conservatives, the minimum wage is the cause of poverty, so people working for less than minimum wage should make America prosperous!

I don't ever recall saying the minimum wage is the cause of poverty. I have heard conservatives say raising minimum wage will not reduce poverty. You were quoting me so I was just wondering how you came up with that thought process. I won't get into a long discussion of why the illegal labor force is causing issues.

Anyway, a funny thing about those Mexicans working here illegally for substandard wages... they still manage to save enough money to send money back home. A lot of people struggling are doing so because of poor money handling. Yes, there are cases of people losing jobs, struggling with medical bills and having a very difficult time... but a lot of people just spend way more than they earn and make stupid financial decisions. Some of those Dave Ramsey books should be required reading in high school.

 

[jstern01]

I don't ever recall saying the minimum wage is the cause of poverty. I have heard conservatives say raising minimum wage will not reduce poverty. You were quoting me so I was just wondering how you came up with that thought process. I won't get into a long discussion of why the illegal labor force is causing issues.

Anyway, a funny thing about those Mexicans working here illegally for substandard wages... they still manage to save enough money to send money back home. A lot of people struggling are doing so because of poor money handling. Yes, there are cases of people losing jobs, struggling with medical bills and having a very difficult time... but a lot of people just spend way more than they earn and make stupid financial decisions. Some of those Dave Ramsey books should be required reading in high school.

Those are the same Mexicans that wind up in the local ER when they have a injury and get free medical treatment, that costs who...... you guess it citizens. Those are the same Mexicans that are at the local food bank getting food to feed themselves that deny who this food ..... you guess it citizens that have been replaced by these Mexicans in some cases. This is why they can send money home, we pay for most of their living and medical costs.

 

[Ninjahedge]

1. People are losing their jobs.
2. People are coming back underemployed, if anything (Like a CS guy flipping burgers)
3. The systems for measurement of approval for benefits are wack. (See Eagles example)
4. Employers are getting choosy and taking their time for replacements.
5. Illegals are not the problem for reduced wages, we are. If we wanted to pay for "American Made" or more than 99¢ for a head of lettuce there would not be such a call for cheap labor.
6. Constantly comparing the poor of this country to the poor of others is criminal. It costs more to live here. Period. If we lived in a country where the closest 5 branches of your family tree were all in a stones throw and you wiped your ass with a stick after taking a dump, then maybe we can say "hey, being hungry twice a week ain't that bad". But GUARANTEED, even the stick wipers would prefer to never be hungry again.

The main problem is this. When you were earning enough money to afford a nice house and amenities and STILL save 10% towards retirement AND HAVE ENOUGH TO SAVE SOME EXTRA CASH, what happens when the bottom falls out?

What happens when you AND your wife stop earning $150K/yr in fairly stable careers? You now both find jobs that earn you $70K total. Your house that used to be worth $500K, which you were able to easily pay off as outlined above, now is worth only slightly more than the mortgage you have on it. You have no real "equity" anymore, and you are paying 4%-5% on money you will never see again (debt).

You lower the heat down to 50 degrees, but still the bills are high. You stop everything but phone and internet because you are still job searching. Your insurance on your house and your 2 year old Accord is now eating into your food budget... and then your kid gets sick and needs to have surgery (appendix?) and you have no insurance.

You can compare relative states of economic security in 1st world and 3rd world countries all you like, the thing is, its apples to cinderblocks. It does not address the problem, and fixating on a relatively small chunk of actual fiscal frivolity like an XBox or TV adds nothing to the discussion of the problem or a solution.

Sto siting the Debt jockeys as some standard for the falling SOL and focus on the "Average Joe" that is not leasing a Cadillac Escalade on $35K/yr salary.

 

[Ninjahedge]

This is not trickle down economics it call stupidity [insert coma here] something your to stupid to understand.

Always be careful when you call someone stupid.

Stupid.

 

[IGBT]

looks like the obama trickle down poverty plan to kill off the middle class is on time and on schedule.

 

[SagaLore]

6. Constantly comparing the poor of this country to the poor of others is criminal. It costs more to live here. Period. If we lived in a country where the closest 5 branches of your family tree were all in a stones throw and you wiped your ass with a stick after taking a dump, then maybe we can say "hey, being hungry twice a week ain't that bad". But GUARANTEED, even the stick wipers would prefer to never be hungry again.

Have you ever been outside of the United States?

 

[Ninjahedge]

That wasn't even clever.......


I am really disappointed.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Have you ever been outside of the United States?

My wife's family did just what I mentioned.

You wanna keep going on that?

 

[SagaLore]

My wife's family did just what I mentioned.

You wanna keep going on that?

Did what? I would like to know if you have ever been outside the United States.

 

[spacejamz]

...and fixating on a relatively small chunk of actual fiscal frivolity like an XBox or TV adds nothing to the discussion of the problem or a solution.

Sto siting the Debt jockeys as some standard for the falling SOL and focus on the "Average Joe" that is not leasing a Cadillac Escalade on $35K/yr salary.

What exactly are you basing your CLAIM that only a small chunk of actual fiscal frivolity exists?

 

[Regs]

There's an obvious leakage somewhere. Most of it has to do with poor investing, inflated bubbles, and corruption. Your hard earn money that you have to now spend is being literally pissed away by the 1% who are greedy as all hell or just down right incompetent. The system is broken and they know it, but if they change it now they know they're in a world of hurt until we rebuild for the next decade.

 

[bfdd]

Lots of people choose that life. They'd rather live in a rundown apartment or trailer house and find work only when it's needed, draw food stamps and whatever other assistance they can get. To them it's better than waking up in the morning and actually working. I have no sympathy for them. I'm a f@cking felon and I seem to find steady work and oh yeah forgot to mention I dropped out of high school. They have no excuses. Period.

Please someone tell me why I find work but they have to draw food stamps.

because they're idiots. i knew plenty of ex felons who had revamped their life and got into some skilled labor. guys who were locked up for federal conspiracy to commit murder, one dude who did a 7 year stretch followed by a 14 year stretch for stabbing a dude in a rival biker gang, ex gang bangers, etc etc. Hell I'm a high school drop out as well, though never in trouble with the law. To many lazy asses who would rather not work.

I'll do it, I just prefer not to be sold short on it and that's why I left. If you're going to charge me as a foreman to the client, I want to see that difference. Don't just pocket that shit assholes. Yes this was my old union job and why I pulled my book. Now I make less money, but have far less physical and mental stress.

 

[ShawnD1]

Who eats the cost for that it sure as hell wouldn't be Walmart?

The money comes from rich people, as usual.

Americans need to wake up and realize that most of them are lazy good for nothing leeches. Free school, free police, free roads, free fire department. Something like half the country doesn't even pay income tax. The top 10% of incomes probably covers a good 90% of all taxes. The other 90% of the population are leeching, getting more out than they put in. That's what makes it so puzzling when the average Joe Parasite American starts bitching about "my taxes are too high and I subsidize the poor!" No you don't. Unless your income is over 100k or so, you're a sponge.


Me? I'm fairly close to my country's national average. If they introduced something like free day care then raised taxes to pay for it, I know I would get more out than I put in, so that's cool with me. I think America's biggest problem right now is that everybody thinks they're in the top 10%. It's unspeakable to raise your taxes by $100 even if it means getting $500 of free shit. As a result, average Americans who would greatly benefits from things like free healthcare and free day care end up paying out of pocket for both of them and being labeled as "in poverty" because of it. Average income is somewhere around $40k? Subtract 10k for day care, 10k for health insurance (for the family), and yeah that's what poverty looks like. 20k left to pay for your food, rent, clothes, etc? That's not easy.

/rant

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm curious to know where you'll be when the revolution starts. Will you be on the front line or safely in the rear?

There is much cause for concern but hyperbole isn't useful for getting a point across.

 

[JS80]

hopefully obama elected 4 more years and more people are in poverty. Americans deserve it.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I don't ever recall saying the minimum wage is the cause of poverty. I have heard conservatives say raising minimum wage will not reduce poverty. You were quoting me so I was just wondering how you came up with that thought process. I won't get into a long discussion of why the illegal labor force is causing issues.

Anyway, a funny thing about those Mexicans working here illegally for substandard wages... they still manage to save enough money to send money back home. A lot of people struggling are doing so because of poor money handling. Yes, there are cases of people losing jobs, struggling with medical bills and having a very difficult time... but a lot of people just spend way more than they earn and make stupid financial decisions. Some of those Dave Ramsey books should be required reading in high school.

this this this this this

I work in the Food/Beverage and also the Seed/Grain Industries at my employer so I see this first hand. I actually know quite a few of them and they willingly admit they send every penny they can back "home". Working minimum wage seasonal jobs these people still survive all year here, manage atleast 1 trip "home" each year and still send up to 50% of their money back. So while they say it isn't an "easy" life (they tease me about being educated - thus having it easy -lol - if only they knew) they say it's a much better life than they would have back "home". One guy was telling me this last fall that he comes up to work the Corn harvest(detassle to end of seed harvest) each year and makes enough to support his whole family all year long(25 people in his "family"). He makes more than minimum wage while here since he can speak English(sort of) but it's like $8-$9/hr so not much more. Oh, did I mention he's here illegally? Did I mention he willingly admits he comes here illegally? Meh, I know it's all anecdotal but figured I'd share.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The money comes from rich people, as usual.

Americans need to wake up and realize that most of them are lazy good for nothing leeches. Free school, free police, free roads, free fire department. Something like half the country doesn't even pay income tax. The top 10% of incomes probably covers a good 90% of all taxes. The other 90% of the population are leeching, getting more out than they put in. That's what makes it so puzzling when the average Joe Parasite American starts bitching about "my taxes are too high and I subsidize the poor!" No you don't. Unless your income is over 100k or so, you're a sponge.

Me? I'm fairly close to my country's national average. If they introduced something like free day care then raised taxes to pay for it, I know I would get more out than I put in, so that's cool with me. I think America's biggest problem right now is that everybody thinks they're in the top 10%. It's unspeakable to raise your taxes by $100 even if it means getting $500 of free shit. As a result, average Americans who would greatly benefits from things like free healthcare and free day care end up paying out of pocket for both of them and being labeled as "in poverty" because of it. Average income is somewhere around $40k? Subtract 10k for day care, 10k for health insurance (for the family), and yeah that's what poverty looks like. 20k left to pay for your food, rent, clothes, etc? That's not easy.

/rant

Most people are leeches but the problem is that they're too stupid to see that they could be bigger leeches while paying only slightly more in taxes?

 

[bfdd]

these people live in poverty, you can't really say the same for many if anyone in the USA without them being straight crazy or choosing it for themselves.

 

[Infohawk]

5. Illegals are not the problem for reduced wages, we are. If we wanted to pay for "American Made" or more than 99¢ for a head of lettuce there would not be such a call for cheap labor.

This is like not enforcing the law that people drive on the correct side of the road and then blaming people for the ensuing car crashes. Government is necessary to coordinate some human behavior otherwise you will have a free-loader problem. Here, government needs to deal with the illegal supply of labor. Most Americans want that to happen.

 

[Infohawk]

these people live in poverty, you can't really say the same for many if anyone in the USA without them being straight crazy or choosing it for themselves.

Did you really think that nobody else would have already made that argument? They did make that argument and it misses the point that things are going in the wrong direction.

It's like if a ship is sinking and you're barking that it's not as bad as being on the shipwreck that's already on the bottom of the ocean. Useless.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

these people live in poverty, you can't really say the same for many if anyone in the USA without them being straight crazy or choosing it for themselves.

Haiti has an over 40% unemployment rate. Why are Americans bitching about jobs so much? They are sitting pretty.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Increasing minimum wage to eliminate poverty is a horribly ass backward way of fixing poverty. If someone is a single parent, they can be brutally poor because day care is 10k per year. For minimum wage to cover stuff like that, the lowest paid grunt would be making $20/h. It would be virtually impossible to start a small business because you can't run it by yourself and hiring someone is too expensive. Ultimately that would damage the country.

Help people by starting programs to provide services at little or no cost. School is already covered, so that's a good start. Instead of insisting walmart employees make 40k per year, start a free day care service that covers everyone. Expand medicaid to cover everyone.
That's what the nicer countries in Europe do. If your kids get free school and free day care and free medical care, then minimum wage is pretty damn good.

Minimum wage is the wrong approach because it puts teens living at home with no expenses in the same category as a single mom with 2 kids. One of them can easily live on $6/h and the other one would be Haiti style poverty at $6/h.

There is no such thing as "free" so don't bother going there.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Maybe what we should do is look at the states that have high poverty states and look at the states that have low poverty rates. Then begin to implement the policies of states with low poverty rates. I wonder what kind of ideology those states with low poverty states would lean towards...

 

[ShawnD1]

Maybe what we should do is look at the states that have high poverty states and look at the states that have low poverty rates. Then begin to implement the policies of states with low poverty rates. I wonder what kind of ideology those states with low poverty states would lean towards...

Shittiest counties in the US
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowest-income_counties_in_the_United_States
lots in South Dakota (republican)
lots in Texas (republican)
North Dakota
Arizona
Mississippi
Louisiana
Kentucky
etc
Those red states that want to mimic China seem to be doing a pretty good job.


Man, thank god for free shit like universal health care. It's the only thing that keeps a lot of people around here out of poverty. My gf is a full time student and she needs knee surgery due to calcification in the joint that prevents her from walking or working at most jobs. It's free here, so it's no big deal. If she had to pay that out of pocket, she would fall into the pit of poverty. Can't work because she's disabled, but can't afford to fix her disability because she can't work. What happens to people like that in the US? They stay poor forever.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Those lists don't seem take into consideration the lower cost of living in those areas, not to mention that clicking through a lot of them reveals them to be Native American land, which is fucked up for entirely separate reasons.