HAHAHA! Thanks Mr. Gates! I needed a laugh!

[n0cmonkey]

Secure software in 2004!

 

[Placer14]

And as a side note, I read an article in Newsweek about a month ago where MS is particpating in a program to support a hardware coded secure OS. Search the Newsweek archive for microsoft and I'm sure you'll notice it.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Placer14
And as a side note, I read an article in Newsweek about a month ago where MS is particpating in a program to support a hardware coded secure OS. Search the Newsweek archive for microsoft and I'm sure you'll notice it.

Didnt see anything in a quick 2min search.

 

[Placer14]

I'd have to look when I take my lunch break from work. I'll post around 2pm-ish.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Placer14
I'd have to look when I take my lunch break from work. I'll post around 2pm-ish.

Ill be asleep, but Ill be looking forward to it when I wake up. I need all the funny stories I can get.

EDIT: Unless you are talking about Paladium, then Ill just retch.

 

[Placer14]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Placer14
I'd have to look when I take my lunch break from work. I'll post around 2pm-ish.

Ill be asleep, but Ill be looking forward to it when I wake up. I need all the funny stories I can get.

EDIT: Unless you are talking about Paladium, then Ill just retch.

What the hell are you doing sleeping at 2 in the afternoon. Let just assume you're exhausted from your "horizontal lambada" session that lasted all night long.

/guy from Waterboy "You can do it!! You can do it all night long!!" guy from Waterboy/

More at 2.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Placer14

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Placer14
I'd have to look when I take my lunch break from work. I'll post around 2pm-ish.

Ill be asleep, but Ill be looking forward to it when I wake up. I need all the funny stories I can get.

EDIT: Unless you are talking about Paladium, then Ill just retch.

What the hell are you doing sleeping at 2 in the afternoon. Let just assume you're exhausted from your "horizontal lambada" session that lasted all night long.

/guy from Waterboy "You can do it!! You can do it all night long!!" guy from Waterboy/

More at 2.

Im unemployed and sick

 

[BurnItDwn]

Hey ... whats wrong with sleeping at 2PM i always sleep at 2pm. (i work 6pm-5:30am)

 

[Placer14]

boo

 

[manly]

The funny thing is just a couple years ago, Gartner was one of MS' favorite butt buddies. Believe it or not, Gartner does carry some weight in IT circles:

The assessment is noteworthy because it was Gartner's assessment that it was time to consider an alternative to IIS in the wake of worms like Nimda and Code Red, that caused Microsoft to formulate its Trustworthy Computing push in the first place.

Not that it really matters. If PHBs chose products based on reliability and quality, MS enterprise software would have drowned years ago.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: manly
The funny thing is just a couple years ago, Gartner was one of MS' favorite butt buddies. Believe it or not, Gartner does carry some weight in IT circles:

The assessment is noteworthy because it was Gartner's assessment that it was time to consider an alternative to IIS in the wake of worms like Nimda and Code Red, that caused Microsoft to formulate its Trustworthy Computing push in the first place.

Not that it really matters. If PHBs chose products based on reliability and quality, MS enterprise software would have drowned years ago.

Gertner and others have been very down on Microsoft lately. Its not a surprise since they admit to the fact their code stinks.

 

Windows by design can never fully be secure. Palladium (Pd) is already a failure based on the strong opposition is has received. Microsoft has to realize that you can't throw hardware at a problem to make it go away. Since Bill's security memo has the amount of bugs in Microsoft products decreased at all?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: dwell
Windows by design can never fully be secure. Palladium (Pd) is already a failure based on the strong opposition is has received. Microsoft has to realize that you can't throw hardware at a problem to make it go away. Since Bill's security memo has the amount of bugs in Microsoft products decreased at all?

Palladium is not about security. Its about money. Read up on it. Its basically DRM, it has nothing to do with security. And the number of bugs has probably increased, since they released sp3 for 2k and sp1 for xp.

This all reminds me, I havent sent Microsoft my resume yet, they just opened a building in reston...

 

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Palladium is not about security. Its about money. Read up on it. Its basically DRM, it has nothing to do with security. And the number of bugs has probably increased, since they released sp3 for 2k and sp1 for xp.

When it has a lot to do with both security and DRM. For security they want to set up a trusted environment, where the hardware will only allow trusted programs to run. That's all well and good, but more than half of the security problems with Windows are cause by Microsoft programs. Remember the recent bug in the Windows help center that let a crafted URL delete files?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: dwell

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Palladium is not about security. Its about money. Read up on it. Its basically DRM, it has nothing to do with security. And the number of bugs has probably increased, since they released sp3 for 2k and sp1 for xp.

When it has a lot to do with both security and DRM. For security they want to set up a trusted environment, where the hardware will only allow trusted programs to run. That's all well and good, but more than half of the security problems with Windows are cause by Microsoft programs. Remember the recent bug in the Windows help center that let a crafted URL delete files?

Exaclty. Microsoft has crappy programmers. That is exactly why I say Palladium has nothing to do with security and everythign to do with money. It does not solve a security problems, only helps out the people with money.

 

Well Pd is never going to happen and if it does I will just use jump to Mac.

 

[NogginBoink]

Gartner Research Director Rich Fogull forecasts that, "due to legacy code and resistance to cultural change, Microsoft will not deliver necessary security improvements before 2004".

Eh... I'm not so sure about the cultural issue, but let's face it: there's lots of code to be scoured for security holes. At least MS is going in the right direction and is making progress. Other software companies out there don't seem to care when vulnerabilities in their products are exposed.

 

[Placer14]

Yea, it was Palladium that I was talking about. It looked interesting, but at some point, the authentication has to occur at a software level. And as long as this is the case, duplicate files, mimic routines, etc etc...honestly, there is no such thing as true security. Eventually, people will figure out to replicate physical objects with no effort. ::sigh::

It's a cool concept though. Maybe a new type of security can be found not requiring passwords, or hardware authentication, etc. Something unique enough that is annoyingly impenitrable...and stuff..

 

[Maverick]

where's Ameesh's token pro-microsoft reply to this?

 

[manly]

Originally posted by: dwell
Well Pd is never going to happen and if it does I will just use jump to Mac.

It's going to happen. MS has already enlisted Intel to go along and build the hardware platform, so I'd say it's a done deal. Your alternatives would include running an open source *nix OS on your x86 box. I seriously doubt any of the open source vendors would push BS DRM into their products, esp. since they'd probably have to license proprietary IP from the consortium building Paladium just to do it.

NogginBoink,

It's totally a cultural issue at MS. They know how to write better code (reportedly their defect rates are at least industry standard, if not much better). And they do attract talent, so they could design more secure systems if they wanted to. The question is whether they actually want to, and right now the answer seems to be a tentative yes. At the same time, we basically know their motivations w.r.t. "Trustworthy Computing" are totally profits and image. As mentioned before, it was the Gartner report slamming IIS that really galvanized them into reevaluating their security image.

Finally, while they are able to improve their products' security over the short term, remember that security must be designed into a system and not bolt-strapped on later. Bill Joy (guru at Sun) had an opinion piece evaluating .Net and one of his conclusions was that MS' introduction of unmanaged (or unsecure) code into the platform was a serious mistake deviating from the design of Java.

 

Originally posted by: manly

It's going to happen. MS has already enlisted Intel to go along and build the hardware platform, so I'd say it's a done deal. Your alternatives would include running an open source *nix OS on your x86 box. I seriously doubt any of the open source vendors would push BS DRM into their products, esp. since they'd probably have to license proprietary IP from the consortium building Paladium just to do it.

The only person I have talked to who actually wants Pd was a Microsoft employee.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: dwell

Originally posted by: manly

It's going to happen. MS has already enlisted Intel to go along and build the hardware platform, so I'd say it's a done deal. Your alternatives would include running an open source *nix OS on your x86 box. I seriously doubt any of the open source vendors would push BS DRM into their products, esp. since they'd probably have to license proprietary IP from the consortium building Paladium just to do it.

The only person I have talked to who actually wants Pd was a Microsoft employee.

Talk to the people in power, big business. MPAA and RIAA are all over it.

 

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Talk to the people in power, big business. MPAA and RIAA are all over it.

Yeah but they are idiots who are lucky to be able to turn on a computer. These are the same people who thought killing Napster would stop the flow of MP3s. If we put these guys in charge they would ruin the computer industry.

Microsoft are not stupid. They are not going to do anything to jeopardize their position in the software industry to appease some Hollywood/RIAA big shots. If enough people fight Pd they are going to eventually give up on trying to force it on people.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: dwell

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Talk to the people in power, big business. MPAA and RIAA are all over it.

Yeah but they are idiots who are lucky to be able to turn on a computer. These are the same people who thought killing Napster would stop the flow of MP3s. If we put these guys in charge they would ruin the computer industry.

Microsoft are not stupid. They are not going to do anything to jeopardize their position in the software industry to appease some Hollywood/RIAA big shots. If enough people fight Pd they are going to eventually give up on trying to force it on people.

They willl probably have a way to turn it off. But then you wont be able to access all their cool doohickies.

 

[manly]

Originally posted by: dwell

Microsoft are not stupid. They are not going to do anything to jeopardize their position in the software industry to appease some Hollywood/RIAA big shots. If enough people fight Pd they are going to eventually give up on trying to force it on people.

ROFL I totally disagree.

Look, MS got a slap on the wrist going up against the most formidable opponent, the U.S. government with its virtually unlimited resources (matched by Microsoft's same). Of course it was the Bush administration selling us out, and not the original DoJ team but the bottom line is they got off scott-free. Do you really think they care what a few geek advocates think? Based on their track record, a resounding NO. Like I said, they more or less "persuaded" Intel to build the freakin' hardware. When it comes to Palladium, they are helping to lead the march, not merely following the entertainment industry.

As an example also referenced in this thread, MS didn't seriously care about security even though it affected most users and was widely reported to have caused billions of dollars in costs to businesses due to systemic vulnerabilities in Outlook, IIS, Exchange and friends. But as soon as Gartner and other analysts surprisingly reversed course, they unleashed a massive PR campaign to right the ship. MS doesn't really care what you or I want. They care about revenue and profit margin, and a whole squadron of geeks isn't going to challenge that.