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Hacking the GT for more stream processors?

taltamir

taltamir

Lifer
Ok this is really weird...
From what I understand there are 3 versions of the GTS... (not talking about ram or overclocking here, core only)
1. The original with 96 stream processors enabled out of 112.
2. The exact same chips, which manufacturers of cards now enable 112 in and call it "96+ stream processors" instead of just "96" on the box... which was silently released on the same day as GT.
3. The g92 based chips comming out soon with 512 and 1gig ram that would be the same core as the GT only with more stream processors...

However this brings up an interesting question... how did they go ahead and enable those extra stream processors in the second type GTS? did they just do it by software? firmware? physical hardware? And if so, can any of this be duplicated? can you hack the firmware on your GT/old GTS to enable the extra stream processors that are disabled on it according to the promise of a GTS G92 version that has more SP?

Any thoughts on the subject? Am I on to something or am I cuckoo?
 
Nvidia has been laser-cutting the disabled quads/octets since the 7000 series. The 6800nu was the last card you could re-enable disabled units via software with.
 
mmm, so how did they get those second model G80 based GTS using supposedly existing units? they were supposed to stop making them a while ago and be using existing stock...

Unless... could it be underclocked/performing GTX cores that they are using for the second model GTS?
 
Wait. There is a 112SP GTS out now?

Sorry, your post kinda confused me .

BTW, the original GTS had 96 out of an original 128SP. The original GTS is a GTX core that has one quad disabled.

The GT and I thought the new GTS were new cores completely.
 
Originally posted by: aka1nas
Nvidia has been laser-cutting the disabled quads/octets since the 7000 series. The 6800nu was the last card you could re-enable disabled units via software with.
Click to expand...


But if they are laser cut, could you possibly reconnect them? I remember using the pencil trick with the old AMD Athons for unlocking the clock on them.

 
That was using conductive material to reconnect bridges that sent a signal to the chip, telling the CPU what multiplier or other attributes it had. In the case of later CPUs and GPUs, they physically disable that portion of the chip with the laser. I'm pretty sure they do this with cache-disabled versions of modern CPUs as well. You used to be able to reconnect bridges on Durons to re-enable the extra L2 cache.
 
Originally posted by: taltamir
Ok this is really weird...
From what I understand there are 3 versions of the GTS... (not talking about ram or overclocking here, core only)
1. The original with 96 stream processors enabled out of 112.
2. The exact same chips, which manufacturers of cards now enable 112 in and call it "96+ stream processors" instead of just "96" on the box... which was silently released on the same day as GT.
3. The g92 based chips comming out soon with 512 and 1gig ram that would be the same core as the GT only with more stream processors...

However this brings up an interesting question... how did they go ahead and enable those extra stream processors in the second type GTS? did they just do it by software? firmware? physical hardware? And if so, can any of this be duplicated? can you hack the firmware on your GT/old GTS to enable the extra stream processors that are disabled on it according to the promise of a GTS G92 version that has more SP?

Any thoughts on the subject? Am I on to something or am I cuckoo?
Click to expand...

Card manufacturers, AFAIK, do not control the number of shaders in the G80 core. I'm pretty sure that is done by Nvidia, or maybe even at TSMC while being fabbed, cut, and tested for stability. The 100% stable cores were not laser cut, and became 8800GTX cores (full 128sp's).
The cores that weren't 100% stable had 2/8ths of the shaders cut that weren't functioning or failed stability. (96 sp 8800GTS's).
Now I am fairly certain, that there were also a number of cores that had 7/8ths of all the possible 128sp's working perfectly and stable. Nvidia held these cores back for later. Now we are seeing them being released as the improved GTS. Still a G80 core.

I wonder what the total number of sp's are in the G92 core. I doubt it's only 112. That would leave no room for a "new GTX". There should be at least 128 sp's in the G92 core and it was laser cut for the 8800GT to 112.
 
Originally posted by: aka1nas
Nvidia has been laser-cutting the disabled quads/octets since the 7000 series. The 6800nu was the last card you could re-enable disabled units via software with.
Click to expand...
Actually there was a significant portion of AGP 7800GS that could unlock the last quad with software mods. By contrast, the PCI-E 7800GS simply didn't have the extra quad, it was a smaller die designed with only 12 pipes (edit- 16 pipes). Even though this wasn't all that long ago, it sure seems distant.
 
Originally posted by: PliotronX
Originally posted by: aka1nas
Nvidia has been laser-cutting the disabled quads/octets since the 7000 series. The 6800nu was the last card you could re-enable disabled units via software with.
Click to expand...
Actually there was a significant portion of AGP 7800GS that could unlock the last quad with software mods. By contrast, the PCI-E 7800GS simply didn't have the extra quad, it was a smaller die designed with only 12 pipes. Even though this wasn't all that long ago, it sure seems distant.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the 6800nu? Because AFAIK, that was the last Nvidia core able to be unlocked. Ever since then, cores have been laser cut.
 
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: PliotronX
Originally posted by: aka1nas
Nvidia has been laser-cutting the disabled quads/octets since the 7000 series. The 6800nu was the last card you could re-enable disabled units via software with.
Click to expand...
Actually there was a significant portion of AGP 7800GS that could unlock the last quad with software mods. By contrast, the PCI-E 7800GS simply didn't have the extra quad, it was a smaller die designed with only 12 pipes. Even though this wasn't all that long ago, it sure seems distant.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the 6800nu? Because AFAIK, that was the last Nvidia core able to be unlocked. Ever since then, cores have been laser cut.
Click to expand...
No, but I did make a typo, the PCI-E 7800GS had 16 pipes whereas the AGP 7800GS was a 7800GT GPU with the quad locked.
 
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: PliotronX
Originally posted by: aka1nas
Nvidia has been laser-cutting the disabled quads/octets since the 7000 series. The 6800nu was the last card you could re-enable disabled units via software with.
Click to expand...
Actually there was a significant portion of AGP 7800GS that could unlock the last quad with software mods. By contrast, the PCI-E 7800GS simply didn't have the extra quad, it was a smaller die designed with only 12 pipes. Even though this wasn't all that long ago, it sure seems distant.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the 6800nu? Because AFAIK, that was the last Nvidia core able to be unlocked. Ever since then, cores have been laser cut.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the AGP 6800GS.
 
Originally posted by: Matt2
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: PliotronX
Originally posted by: aka1nas
Nvidia has been laser-cutting the disabled quads/octets since the 7000 series. The 6800nu was the last card you could re-enable disabled units via software with.
Click to expand...
Actually there was a significant portion of AGP 7800GS that could unlock the last quad with software mods. By contrast, the PCI-E 7800GS simply didn't have the extra quad, it was a smaller die designed with only 12 pipes. Even though this wasn't all that long ago, it sure seems distant.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the 6800nu? Because AFAIK, that was the last Nvidia core able to be unlocked. Ever since then, cores have been laser cut.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the AGP 6800GS.
Click to expand...
Ah that was the one. I knew it succeeded the 6800nu, could've sworn it was the same deal with the 7800GS though. The reason that the 6800GS on the AGP platform was that the cooler running PCI-E 6800GS GPU did not have native AGP support. To keep costs down, excess 6800GT GPU's were locked and used for the AGP 6800GS. While the PCI-E GS was not unlockable, it was more overclockable to almost make up for the pipe deficiency. Before I made the PCI-E jump I was strongly considering that AGP part to keep my system going 😀
 
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: taltamir
Ok this is really weird...
From what I understand there are 3 versions of the GTS... (not talking about ram or overclocking here, core only)
1. The original with 96 stream processors enabled out of 112.
2. The exact same chips, which manufacturers of cards now enable 112 in and call it "96+ stream processors" instead of just "96" on the box... which was silently released on the same day as GT.
3. The g92 based chips comming out soon with 512 and 1gig ram that would be the same core as the GT only with more stream processors...

However this brings up an interesting question... how did they go ahead and enable those extra stream processors in the second type GTS? did they just do it by software? firmware? physical hardware? And if so, can any of this be duplicated? can you hack the firmware on your GT/old GTS to enable the extra stream processors that are disabled on it according to the promise of a GTS G92 version that has more SP?

Any thoughts on the subject? Am I on to something or am I cuckoo?
Click to expand...

Card manufacturers, AFAIK, do not control the number of shaders in the G80 core. I'm pretty sure that is done by Nvidia, or maybe even at TSMC while being fabbed, cut, and tested for stability. The 100% stable cores were not laser cut, and became 8800GTX cores (full 128sp's).
The cores that weren't 100% stable had 2/8ths of the shaders cut that weren't functioning or failed stability. (96 sp 8800GTS's).
Now I am fairly certain, that there were also a number of cores that had 7/8ths of all the possible 128sp's working perfectly and stable. Nvidia held these cores back for later. Now we are seeing them being released as the improved GTS. Still a G80 core.

I wonder what the total number of sp's are in the G92 core. I doubt it's only 112. That would leave no room for a "new GTX". There should be at least 128 sp's in the G92 core and it was laser cut for the 8800GT to 112.
Click to expand...

that makes a lot of sense... test and remove defective portions, sell the ones with two defective clusters as the GTS, keep the parts with one defective cluster for a GTS revision, use the cores with no defective clusters as a GTX, and then make a whole new GTS with an entirely different chip later on...

It is rather stupid to have the same name for different parts though... IMAO this should be illigal. but unfortunately it isn't...
 
The reasoning for maintaining the GTS model name is for SLI compatibility with existing GTS cards. Evidently Nvidia's drivers do some sort of checking of the model name when determining SLI compatibility between cards.
 
Originally posted by: Piano Man
Originally posted by: aka1nas
Nvidia has been laser-cutting the disabled quads/octets since the 7000 series. The 6800nu was the last card you could re-enable disabled units via software with.
Click to expand...


But if they are laser cut, could you possibly reconnect them? I remember using the pencil trick with the old AMD Athons for unlocking the clock on them.
Click to expand...

If you have Very very very good eye that is able to zoom at nanometer scale then maybe. 😛

All joking aside, once there laser cut, theres no way to reconnect them. This all happens during the complex fabrication process (mostly chemical) of the chips on the silicon wafer. Not going to get into the details but the pencil tricks you have mentioned is abit different.
 
Perhaps someone might consider dolloping a blob of solder onto the core and hope for the best!

Not it, said it first.
 
Actually there was a significant portion of AGP 7800GS that could unlock the last quad with software mods.
Click to expand...

Then you shouldn't have a single problem finding us one example to prove this. I know you're wrong cause the chatter would have been everywhere and there would have been a buying frenzy on the 7800GS's when they came out ( which there never was ).

You can not unlock any 7800GS. BFG made a 20 pipe 7800GS that was a 7800GT core, Gainward did the same and they made a 7800GTX based 7800GS that had 24 pipes but there was never a 7800GS with 16 pipes that was able to unlock to 20 or 24 pipelines.
 
Originally posted by: Powered by AMD
well, its sad to admit that we wont be able to enable the extra pipes. Bad for NvIdia and ATI that started to lasercut their chips...
Click to expand...

How is it bad for them? Bad for us you mean. This forces consumers to buy the more expensive card if they REALLY want those extra shaders.
 
its funny, they spend more money cripping an expensive chip just so they can fill the lower end bracket with something... first they make it, then they cripple it, then they sell it for less..
 
There is far more demand on the lower-end of the market. It's not like the marginal cost of producing the GPU is all that high to begin with. It's the amortization of all the R&D and fab costs, etc over all units sold that costs so much.
 
yea, i know it actually makes sense economically, I am just saying it sounds funny when you think about it objectively....
 
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