Hacking cars using

[punjabiplaya]

TPMS?

http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2010/08/cars-hacked-through-wireless-tyre-sensors.ars

 

[CurseTheSky]

Digital car security is going to become a major concern for the near future. This is only the beginning, IMO.

 

[Tristicus]

If somebody wants to get into my Jeep, they have to walk up and sit in it. The end.

I honestly think that all this digital stuff is not the right way (for car security), because there will be hacks for it. I also don't see what is going to ever stop someone from smashing the window.

 

[speedy2]

Linkage or closed circuit controlled booby traps. Problem fixed. You break into my car, you're in for a world of hurt.

 

[Vette73]

If somebody wants to get into my Jeep, they have to walk up and sit in it. The end.

I honestly think that all this digital stuff is not the right way (for car security), because there will be hacks for it. I also don't see what is going to ever stop someone from smashing the window.

Or better yet.

1: Buy old tow truck
2: Find nice car
3: Tow nice car to woods/shop
4: ...
5: Profit


Nobody, except the owner/friend, ever tries to stop someome from getting a car towed. If you saw a car being hooked up at the mall would you run over and stop the tow truck driver?

 

[PottedMeat]

Beyond this, they could alter and forge the readings to cause warning lights on the dashboard to turn on, or even crash the ECU completely.

I can understand causing warning lights, but what kind of shit programming does this?

 

[EightySix Four]

I can understand causing warning lights, but what kind of shit programming does this?

I have a bit of a problem with the article. I can't imagine that someone didn't consider that a malfunctioning TPMS could send malformed/bad data back to the ECU, which is what these guys were doing. That would be mind blowingly dumb.

 

[halik]

Err that's gotta be BS, brakes are a hydraulic system. Can't exactly disable them.

 

[kalrith]

Or better yet.

1: Buy old tow truck
2: Find nice car
3: Tow nice car to woods/shop
4: ...
5: Profit


Nobody, except the owner/friend, ever tries to stop someome from getting a car towed. If you saw a car being hooked up at the mall would you run over and stop the tow truck driver?

I've been looking for business start-up ideas, and I think this is the best one yet!!!

 

[Ben90]

Err that's gotta be BS, brakes are a hydraulic system. Can't exactly disable them.

Some newer cars link the gas/brake pedal directly to a computer which translates that into the hydraulic actions.

There are advantages and disadvantages of this. The main advantage is that the software can make the pedals act linearly instead of exponentially. For example in a regular car, if u press the gas pedal down to 50% the engine would be generating around 85% power. The electric system "fixes" this as a 50% press would generate 50% power.

A major disadvantage is that it adds another point of failure and complexity.

 

[coxmaster]

It seems to me that some brands are going to be more vulnerable than others. I know some car manufacturers require you to have the dealer enable (code/connect/whatever) the TPMS if you get new wheels or whatever. Some cars can only recognize 4 or 5 Monitors at a time as well.

Other cars (more vulnerable) can recognize many more monitors automatically, meaning anything nearby is detectable.

Ive had it happen a few times before where my TPMS light came on, presumably because the car next to me had a low tire (definitely wasnt mine). This always seemed like a bad idea, now i see why

 

[StageLeft]

Some newer cars link the gas/brake pedal directly to a computer which translates that into the hydraulic actions.

There are advantages and disadvantages of this. The main advantage is that the software can make the pedals act linearly instead of exponentially. For example in a regular car, if u press the gas pedal down to 50% the engine would be generating around 85% power. The electric system "fixes" this as a 50% press would generate 50% power.

A major disadvantage is that it adds another point of failure and complexity.

Translating to hydraulic actions maybe but shutting it down? The Prius is heaviliy electric, from power steering to brakes, and even that apparently can suffer a total shutdown of the system and you still have power steering _and_ brakes, because they are merely electric assisted in how they work, not actually reliant on it. What car would suffer a failure of braking if the electric system stops? Any?

I'm gonna call shens that this hack can disable brakes unless somebody can document an actual production car that would have its brakes fail based on electric input (or lack of).

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Err that's gotta be BS, brakes are a hydraulic system. Can't exactly disable them.

ABS. The computer can modulate them, which means it can modulate them to (near) zero.

 

[StageLeft]

ABS. The computer can modulate them, which means it can modulate them to (near) zero.

I suppose in theory that's true but...

What I can't believe also is that the interface exposed to TPMS is anything OTHER than "here is what I am currently reading" and a couple of other such methods.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

They're basically pointing out that engine computers generally consider their system trusted and don't do thorough checks to make sure the data they're getting is valid and from the proper source. Yet the addition of wireless communications opens them up to untrusted sources.