[haaretz] Woman in Beit Shemesh attacked by ultra-Orthodox extremists

[JSt0rm]

i actually showed several examples where stoning occurred by 1. a mob and 2. is a corporal punishment.

I never said it was as bad as what happens in Muslim countries?

you all seem to think I'm pro Palestine? I'm not. I'm pro mods not meddling in what we do in here because EVERYTHING is 100 million shades of grey and there is no right answer to everything.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

The thread title has been changed because the OP attempted, wrongly, to equivocate stoning in a classic sense with what happened in the story as was reported. It was a pathetic attempt to claim 'Those damn extremist Jews are just as bad as extremist Muslims." It failed miserably in the process because it wasn't even close to being the same thing. Trying to shore up the OP for his pathetically misleading original thread title does you no favors. Move on.

 

[JSt0rm]

The thread title has been changed because the OP attempted, wrongly, to equivocate stoning in a classic sense with what happened in the story as was reported. It was a pathetic attempt to claim 'Those damn exremist Jews are just as bad as extremist Muslims." It failed miserably in the process because it wasn't even close to being the same thing. Trying to shore up the OP for his pathetically misleading original thread title does you no favors. Move on.

You were offended because you are hyper sensitive to the issue of Jewish people being similar to Muslims. I expect these forums to function with thread titles (that contain no profanity or outright fabrication) that may be offensive to your notion of right and wrong in this world. I also expect titles that will be offensive to me and sandeagle and everyone.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

You were offended because you are hyper sensitive to the issue of Jewish people being similar to Muslims. I expect these forums to function with thread titles (that contain no profanity or outright fabrication) that may be offensive to your notion of right and wrong in this world. I also expect titles that will be offensive to me and sandeagle and everyone.

I was pointing out that the OP tried and failed to equivocate this event to stoning by extremist Muslims with his misleading thread title. I also pointed out that these extremist Jews should be beaten down for their act.

Our ultra-right wing, Israel-loving P&N mods seem to agree with with me on that point so if you have a problem with that you might want bring it up with them. K?

 

[JSt0rm]

I was pointing out that the OP tried and failed to equivocate this event to stoning by extremist Muslims with his misleading thread title. I also pointed out that these extremist Jews should be beaten down for their act.

Our ultra-right wing, Israel-loving P&N mods seem to agree with with me on that point so if you have a problem with that you might want bring it up with them. K?

I am. I'm bringing it up right here.

You have every right to counter argue how the op tried to shape the debate (jews and muslims are similar) you dont have the right to change how he decides to shape the debate via a mod when 1. there was no profanity in the title and 2. 3 minutes of Google put together enough evidence to keep that title in place.

 

[kylebisme]

A more recent article from Ynet confirms the original thread title:

Dozens of haredim attacked 27-year-old Mashiah on Tuesday as she was putting up posters in Beit Shemesh. They hurled stones at her, poured bleach in her car and spat on her. They continued to attack her as she hid in her car, causing the windshield to shatter. She later tied to escape to a nearby building. "I thought I was going to die," she later said.

"This is a brutal gender-based lynch directed at a woman who was just doing her job," the police representative said in court.

There's also a picture on the link which shows the woman's "immodest dress" was fairly modest by any reasonable standards.

 

[Infohawk]

i actually showed several examples where stoning occurred by 1. a mob and 2. is a corporal punishment.

Who are you addressing?

Where are the contemporary examples of Israeli Jews stoning anyone? I just saw your link to wikipedia basically saying how in practice stoning doesn't happen anymore. In any case, this article is about a specific incident which was not a community punishment.

I'm pro mods not meddling in what we do in here because EVERYTHING is 100 million shades of grey and there is no right answer to everything.

Maybe this is best left for the moderation discussion, but I'm really sick of all the inaccurate titles.

If you agree that misleading or inaccurate titles are bad, this one is clear cut. Read the actual article. Look at the pictures. This is not a woman who was put in the middle of a circle and stoned. Honestly it mostly looks vandalism to her car. The Haaretz title is far more accurate. It was an attack, not a stoning.

 

[davmat787]

I am. I'm bringing it up right here.

You have every right to counter argue how the op tried to shape the debate (jews and muslims are similar) you dont have the right to change how he decides to shape the debate via a mod when 1. there was no profanity in the title and 2. 3 minutes of Google put together enough evidence to keep that title in place.

Did you read the admin's comment in the OP? I think you came into this one a little late. For the record, I am NOT trying to defend what happened to that poor woman. Immodest dress? lol. The issue was the OP trying to equate what happened to a 'death by stoning' that we hear about all too often unfortunately. The original title/op wanted the reader to assume it was a muslim-death-by-stoning incident, only to have that gotcha moment where it turns out to be a jewish incident. Except the two aren't equivalent at all.

Tis all.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

A more recent article from Ynet confirms the original thread title:


There's also a picture on the link which shows the woman's "immodest dress" was fairly modest by any reasonable standards.

"Police are planning to appeal the ruling on Thursday and the three suspects will stay in custody until then."

Above is one major difference.

And as already noted, stoning in extremist Muslim societies are a death sentence. Do I need to supply copious links to substantiate that because apparently you and others are avoiding that particular fact?

 

[JSt0rm]

Who are you addressing?

Where are the contemporary examples of Israeli Jews stoning anyone? I just saw your link to wikipedia basically saying how in practice stoning doesn't happen anymore. In any case, this article is about a specific incident which was not a community punishment.



Maybe this is best left for the moderation discussion, but I'm really sick of all the inaccurate titles.

If you agree that misleading or inaccurate titles are bad, this one is clear cut. Read the actual article. Look at the pictures. This is not a woman who was put in the middle of a circle and stoned. Honestly it mostly looks vandalism to her car. The Haaretz title is far more accurate. It was an attack, not a stoning.

I agree they are bad but this one is not clear cut. This was a BAD thread to start with and clearly shows we are going to be in for a bumpy ride until this thing plays itself out.

 

[JSt0rm]

also what is accurate for the news article and accurate for what the op wants to discuss are totally different. Unless there is a new rule that we must only discuss the exact events of any particular article with no divergent debate then the original title was perfectly fine.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I am. I'm bringing it up right here.

You have every right to counter argue how the op tried to shape the debate (jews and muslims are similar) you dont have the right to change how he decides to shape the debate via a mod when 1. there was no profanity in the title and 2. 3 minutes of Google put together enough evidence to keep that title in place.

I don't have the right in this forum and didn't change a thing. I am not a mod. Blow your hot air and disingenious arguments with them, not me.

 

[davmat787]

also what is accurate for the news article and accurate for what the op wants to discuss are totally different. Unless there is a new rule that we must only discuss the exact events of any particular article with no divergent debate then the original title was perfectly fine.

Well at least one admin and a bunch of regular posters disagree. To each is own.

Why so butthurt about this? I don't understand what you are taking exception to exactly. You came into this thread late, and appear to be making some assumptions too.

 

[JSt0rm]

I don't have the right in this forum and didn't change a thing. I am not a mod. Blow your hot air and disingenious arguments with them, not me.

your last sentence is baiting. I dont have disingenuous debates. If I don't want to debate or think the topic too stupid to spend my time on I either 1. insult the stupid or 2. ignore it.

Well at least one admin and a bunch of regular posters disagree.

We have established that my friend.

To each is own.

apparently not.

 

[kylebisme]

And as already noted, stoning in extremist Muslim societies are a death sentence. Do I need to supply copious links to substantiate that because apparently you and others are avoiding that particular fact?

If you mean to say that some Muslim countries use stoning as a form of capital punishment, I wasn't arguing otherwise, and think Whiskey did a fine job of acknowledging that fact here:

Off the top of my head I can think of numerous states with Muslim majorities where such an action is criminal: Algeria, Tunisia, Turkey, Egypt, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc... From that Wikipedia article upon stoning, it is stated that only 7 states have stoning as being codified into law.

So Chicken, what are you so riled up about here?

 

[zsdersw]

And liberals think these people can be reasoned with.

And (neo-) conservatives think you can end the root cause for why they exist by simply killing them.

 

[cybrsage]

Just so everyone knows, the Jewish punishment of stoning cannot be performed in the modern age. The required semicha has been lost (there is a possibility of it not being lost, but it has yet to be vetted). The modern use of semicha is not the original one required for there to be a religious court. The original use is the direct passing of the power to judge a religious court from one who received semicha to another who is receiving it. It must be done in person, which means an unbroken line must exist from Moses to today.

Anyone saying they are applying a proper punishment are actually violating Halakha.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

LMAO!!!!! Looks like some people were gut hooked in here.

They probably had their "Religion of Peace" macro locked/loaded and are pissed they couldn't use it.

 

[airdata]

imagine that... they're racists.

 

[cybrsage]

imagine that... they're racists.

It was Jews attacking other Jews. Technically, it is an ethnicity, but SCOTUS has ruled it is a race for civil rights purposes.

Or did you mean those who hoped this thread was about Muslims? Islam is not a race either.

 

[Whiskey16]

This woman was attacked by a mob and as part of that attack someone threw a stone at her. It's like saying a baseball game is a dancing event because a few people do a couple moves on the jumbotron when music is played.

Please, do not alter documented actions of the lynching crowd to minimise events for an argumentative end.

The prejudicial evidence in this thread is to distort and to attempt to save partisan face for one extremist religious group over another more regularly and tolerably critiqued on this forum.

Repeating a clarrification of events should not be necessary. I wish people could be more pragmatically honest and recognise the certain facts:

• multiple people intentionally hurled stones/rocks at this woman
• these were Orthodox Jews who are well apt and studied to recognise the historical and symbolic action of pelting a person with stones

Examine the prejudice and intent present to smugly hold a brutal expectation upon Muslims while minimising this lynching and stoning by Jews.

[EDIT: Let me further corroborate with a supportive news headlines from what all should consider a fairly partisan source::]

Your Jewish News, Tuesday January 24, 2012

3 Ultra Orthodox Jewish men arrested for stoning woman in Beit Shemesh

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Please, do not alter documented actions of the lynching crowd to minimise events for an argumentative end.

The prejudicial evidence in this thread is to distort and to attempt to save partisan face for one extremist religious group over another more regularly and tolerably critiqued on this forum.

Repeating a clarrification of events should not be necessary. I wish people could be more pragmatically honest and recognise the certain facts:

• multiple people intentionally hurled stones/rocks at this woman
• these were Orthodox Jews who are well apt and studied to recognise the historical and symbolic action of pelting a person with stones

Examine the prejudice and intent present to smugly hold a brutal expectation upon Muslims while minimising this lynching and stoning by Jews.

[EDIT: Let me further corroborate with a supportive news headlines from what all should consider a fairly partisan source::]

Pragmatic? Honest? lol. Those words ring hollow when certain people in this thread are absolutely straining to falsely draw a moral equivalence by very loosely applying a well understood term.

The lame attempt at claiming 'They are just as bad!' falls flat on its face when the actual evidence is taken into consideration. And it's nearly comical reading the few who are actually trying to justify that claim.

 

[cybrsage]

And (neo-) conservatives think you can end the root cause for why they exist by simply killing them.

You can, but only if you kill them all.

 

[Brovane]

I waiting for these idiots to mess around with one of these Israeli girls and suffer terminal kinetic energy poisoning.

 

[Infohawk]

[EDIT: Let me further corroborate with a supportive news headlines from what all should consider a fairly partisan source::]

That site is basically a blog. You might as well rely on the OP as a credible source.