[H]ardOcp : Just Cause 2 performance and image quality

[Madcatatlas]

Hey you guys, we are going to screw 1/3rd of you gamers because....?





The 5870 outclasses the 480, i thought it would be the other way around. i mean.. its 6? 7? months old tech?

 

[Genx87]

Insightful

 

[Xarick]

And yet:

"Best Value : As far as the best value for Just Cause 2 is concerned, it has to be the GeForce GTX 470. It gave us a great performance at 1920x1200, which is still a very respectable resolution, and it allowed us to use the special NVIDIA-exclusive graphics options, which provided us with a noticeable and persistent graphical improvement and gameplay experience."

 

[happy medium]

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/05/04/just_cause_2_gameplay_performance_image_quality/4

.It depends on how much performance is lost by using the extra 2 settings avalable to the gtx series and 8x aa vs 4x aa

 

[SlowSpyder]

I definately liked the water better in the Nvidia screen shots. It looked more... 'alive' to me. I bet it looks very nice in game, when in motion.

The Bokeh filter did nothing for me though. I liked the 'off' screen shot better in the first comparrison and I didn't see any significant difference in the second.

 

[MrK6]

And yet:

"Best Value : As far as the best value for Just Cause 2 is concerned, it has to be the GeForce GTX 470. It gave us a great performance at 1920x1200, which is still a very respectable resolution, and it allowed us to use the special NVIDIA-exclusive graphics options, which provided us with a noticeable and persistent graphical improvement and gameplay experience."

Exactly my thoughts (I just posted that over there). I can't see how paying $50-70 more for the use of the two NVIDIA-only options by buying a GTX 470 instead of a 5850 defines a "value." It also seems like you'd be getting less performance for your dollar (the 5850 was shown to be only 7% slower than the GTX 480, I'd think the GTX 470 would be even slower). Finally, even in the article they said themselves that sometimes the NVIDIA options do absolutely nothing for image quality.

It still seems like the 5850 is the best value card.

 

[Keysplayr]

Exactly my thoughts (I just posted that over there). I can't see how paying $50-70 more for the use of the two NVIDIA-only options by buying a GTX 470 instead of a 5850 defines a "value." It also seems like you'd be getting less performance for your dollar (the 5850 was shown to be only 7% slower than the GTX 480, I'd think the GTX 470 would be even slower). Finally, even in the article they said themselves that sometimes the NVIDIA options do absolutely nothing for image quality.

It still seems like the 5850 is the best value card.

Graphical improvements seems to be a good reason for most.
And per that same article, they noticed distinct improvements with the feature on. Sure it reduces framerates. Very rare that a feature that worsens image quality reduces framerates, right?

 

[Qbah]

Well, for me the water looked amazing on nVidia. I would say such a visual difference is worth the price premium - the GTX470 is a better value card for this game imo as it provides noticeable visual superiority for the green cards.

And his comment for no difference sometimes was for the filter thing. Water is everywhere in this game so the visual immersion is better on nVidia. Totally worth an extra $50 imo - and perhaps other games in the future will have extra features?

And it's Kyle recommending an nVidia card over an AMD one - the other least probable place for such a recommendation is AMD Zone. If this guy says the visual difference is worth the price premium and makes the GTX470 the best value for this game, there's something to it.

 

[Lonyo]

Graphical improvements seems to be a good reason for most.
And per that same article, they noticed distinct improvements with the feature on. Sure it reduces framerates. Very rare that a feature that worsens image quality reduces framerates, right?

Depends on which graphical improvements you want though. If you have a monitor which runs at 2560x1600 you might want to use that res in order to remove the impact of scaling. Or maybe you want AA.
They are options which you have to pick instead of other things, rather than being able to use them as well as other features but at reduced (and still playable) frame rates.

If the cards could run it at 40fps average with all stuff on vs 50fps for ATI, then it wouldn't be so bad, but it can't manage playable frame rates with these "extra" options, meaning they end up being replacement graphical niceties instead of additional ones.
Either you have an ATI card and get stuck with one set of options, or you get an NV card and can choose either the same set as an ATI user, or you can use some different options instead, but not in addition to, those the ATI user gets. (And with either set of choices you pay more and get lower performance)

It ends up being something you need to experience to decide which option is most meaningful to you.
(But one game shouldn't persuade anyone to buy any specific thing unless that's basically all they play. But since the conclusions are specific to the game, the conclusion is valid as the authors preference is for the nicer water).

 

[Madcatatlas]

Well, for me the water looked amazing on nVidia. I would say such a visual difference is worth the price premium - the GTX470 is a better value card for this game imo as it provides noticeable visual superiority for the green cards.

And his comment for no difference sometimes was for the filter thing. Water is everywhere in this game so the visual immersion is better on nVidia. Totally worth an extra $50 imo - and perhaps other games in the future will have extra features?

And it's Kyle recommending an nVidia card over an AMD one - the other least probable place for such a recommendation is AMD Zone. If this guy says the visual difference is worth the price premium and makes the GTX470 the best value for this game, there's something to it.

Its not Kyle, just so you have that part right.

 

[Xarick]

The other thing to consider is that the 470 also bests the 5850 is many other benchmarks. Plus you can't really expect nvidia is gonna sit back and let the ati beat their cards in just cause 2. I suspect a driver update that improves performance in this game before too long.

 

[badb0y]

Well, for me the water looked amazing on nVidia. I would say such a visual difference is worth the price premium - the GTX470 is a better value card for this game imo as it provides noticeable visual superiority for the green cards.

And his comment for no difference sometimes was for the filter thing. Water is everywhere in this game so the visual immersion is better on nVidia. Totally worth an extra $50 imo - and perhaps other games in the future will have extra features?

And it's Kyle recommending an nVidia card over an AMD one - the other least probable place for such a recommendation is AMD Zone. If this guy says the visual difference is worth the price premium and makes the GTX470 the best value for this game, there's something to it.

Pretty sure tessalated water looks better, or whatever they are using in DX 11 to make water.

 

[Qbah]

Its not Kyle, just so you have that part right.

Well, it was still published on [H] But yeah, it's not Kyle. Though I guess his "blessing" is required for such articles anyway?

Pretty sure tessalated water looks better, or whatever they are using in DX 11 to make water.

And which game has that? Because we're talking about Just Cause 2 for PC now. And it doesn't use tessellation.

 

[badb0y]

And which game has that? Because we're talking about Just Cause 2 for PC now. And it doesn't use tessellation.

Yes, but you said something about future games using the same method and I am just saying, tesselated water will probably override CUDA water in terms of implementation.

 

[Qbah]

Yes, but you said something about future games using the same method and I am just saying, tesselated water will probably override CUDA water in terms of implementation.

True. Here's to hoping game developers use something that both the red and green cards can use. As to not alienate any gamers from the best experience possible.

 

[Keysplayr]

Yes, but you said something about future games using the same method and I am just saying, tesselated water will probably override CUDA water in terms of implementation.

In which case Nvidia would perform better the higher the tess level gets.

Anything else?

 

[badb0y]

In which case Nvidia would perform better the higher the tess level gets.

Anything else?

I am sorry but can you elaborate?

 

[Keysplayr]

I am sorry but can you elaborate?

You're not sorry, and you know what I mean.

 

[Qbah]

In which case Nvidia would perform better the higher the tess level gets.

Anything else?

But Radeon owners could still use the effects, they'd just get fewer FPS. I would think that's the best possible scenario for gamers, don't you think? Tessellation is a DX11 thing both camps support - nVidia is better at it, hence people would choose it over AMD, if they deemed it worthwhile. And not as it is right now, where nVidia, through sponsorship, suggests to use their technology, not available on Radeons. Technology that could be substituted by things both camps support

 

[badb0y]

You're not sorry, and you know what I mean.

Dude, what are you trying to say? You don't make any sense.

EDIT: After reading your post over again, it seems like you need work on your reading comprehension skills.

What I said was tesselated water looks better than CUDA water, which is subjective but most people would agree with me. Not once did I mention ATi or nVidia, in fact I didn't mention anything about performace so kindly back the fuck off .

 

[SlowSpyder]

In which case Nvidia would perform better the higher the tess level gets.

Anything else?

While I agree, that Nvidia appears to have the stronger method built into their hardware for tessellation, I dont know that AMD's will limit it at all either. I think we'll have to wait and see how games use tessellation. AMD's may be powerful enough to not limit it in real games (we don't know that the 'extreme' tessellation in Heaven will be reflective of real world performance).

 

[GaiaHunter]

Yes, but you said something about future games using the same method and I am just saying, tesselated water will probably override CUDA water in terms of implementation.

No it will/would be replaced by opencl/directcompute water. making it an unknown factor.

 

[Keysplayr]

Dude, what are you trying to say? You don't make any sense.

EDIT: After reading your post over again, it seems like you need work on your reading comprehension skills.

What I said was tesselated water looks better than CUDA water, which is subjective but most people would agree with me. Not once did I mention ATi or nVidia, in fact I didn't mention anything about performace so kindly back the fuck off .

OOOOkayyyy?????
Did not mean to piss in your oatmeal there sparky. Re- lax.
Slow Spyder seems to be keeping up though. Not sure where you, or I lost track of each other here. ?

 

[Keysplayr]

No it will/would be replaced by opencl/directcompute water. making it an unknown factor.

Definitely can go a bunch of different ways.

 

[T2k]

Exactly my thoughts (I just posted that over there). I can't see how paying $50-70 more for the use of the two NVIDIA-only options by buying a GTX 470 instead of a 5850 defines a "value." It also seems like you'd be getting less performance for your dollar (the 5850 was shown to be only 7% slower than the GTX 480, I'd think the GTX 470 would be even slower). Finally, even in the article they said themselves that sometimes the NVIDIA options do absolutely nothing for image quality.

It still seems like the 5850 is the best value card.

Nice summary, pretty much my thoughts as well.