GWB 'knew Guantánamo prisoners were innocent'

SandEagle

Lifer
Aug 4, 2007
16,809
13
0
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7092435.ece

Where is the investigation and public outrage over this? If true, GWB & CO need to be tried for crimes against humanity.

From The Times

April 9, 2010
George W. Bush 'knew Guantánamo prisoners were innocent'

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Tim Reid, Washinton




div#related-article-links p a, div#related-article-links p a:visited { color:#06c; } George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld covered up that hundreds of innocent men were sent to the Guantánamo Bay prison camp because they feared that releasing them would harm the push for war in Iraq and the broader War on Terror, according to a new document obtained by The Times.
The accusations were made by Lawrence Wilkerson, a top aide to Colin Powell, the former Republican Secretary of State, in a signed declaration to support a lawsuit filed by a Guantánamo detainee. It is the first time that such allegations have been made by a senior member of the Bush Administration.
Colonel Wilkerson, who was General Powell’s chief of staff when he ran the State Department, was most critical of Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld. He claimed that the former Vice-President and Defence Secretary knew that the majority of the initial 742 detainees sent to Guantánamo in 2002 were innocent but believed that it was “politically impossible to release them”.
General Powell, who left the Bush Administration in 2005, angry about the misinformation that he unwittingly gave the world when he made the case for the invasion of Iraq at the UN, is understood to have backed Colonel Wilkerson’s declaration.
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Colonel Wilkerson, a long-time critic of the Bush Administration’s approach to counter-terrorism and the war in Iraq, claimed that the majority of detainees — children as young as 12 and men as old as 93, he said — never saw a US soldier when they were captured. He said that many were turned over by Afghans and Pakistanis for up to $5,000. Little or no evidence was produced as to why they had been taken.
He also claimed that one reason Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld did not want the innocent detainees released was because “the detention efforts would be revealed as the incredibly confused operation that they were”. This was “not acceptable to the Administration and would have been severely detrimental to the leadership at DoD [Mr Rumsfeld at the Defence Department]”.
Referring to Mr Cheney, Colonel Wilkerson, who served 31 years in the US Army, asserted: “He had absolutely no concern that the vast majority of Guantánamo detainees were innocent ... If hundreds of innocent individuals had to suffer in order to detain a handful of hardcore terrorists, so be it.”
He alleged that for Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld “innocent people languishing in Guantánamo for years was justified by the broader War on Terror and the small number of terrorists who were responsible for the September 11 attacks”.
He added: “I discussed the issue of the Guantánamo detainees with Secretary Powell. I learnt that it was his view that it was not just Vice-President Cheney and Secretary Rumsfeld, but also President Bush who was involved in all of the Guantánamo decision making.”
Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld, Colonel Wilkerson said, deemed the incarceration of innocent men acceptable if some genuine militants were captured, leading to a better intelligence picture of Iraq at a time when the Bush Administration was desperate to find a link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11, “thus justifying the Administration’s plans for war with that country”.
He signed the declaration in support of Adel Hassan Hamad, a Sudanese man who was held at Guantánamo Bay from March 2003 until December 2007. Mr Hamad claims that he was tortured by US agents while in custody and yesterday filed a damages action against a list of American officials.
Defenders of Guantánamo said that detainees began to be released as early as September 2002, nine months after the first prisoners were sent to the jail at the US naval base in Cuba. By the time Mr Bush left office more than 530 detainees had been freed.
A spokesman for Mr Bush said of Colonel Wilkerson’s allegations: “We are not going to have any comment on that.” A former associate to Mr Rumsfeld said that Mr Wilkerson's assertions were completely untrue.
The associate said the former Defence Secretary had worked harder than anyone to get detainees released and worked assiduously to keep the prison population as small as possible. Mr Cheney’s office did not respond.
There are currently about 180 detainees left in the facility.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
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Exactly. Obama is continuing the policy yet the Obamabots can't put any blame on Obama.

Honestly, whats worse.. putting innocent people in Gitmo, or NOT going anything about it once its been revealed? Maybe Obama hates brown people?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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I didnt read the article but this isnt something that nobody knew about. Bush wanted to send a lot of these people back but nobody would take them. Obama has the same problem. Which is why I laughed my ass off when he signed an executive order to close gitmo within 12 months on his first day in office. Only a fool would do something like that without knowing the situation. 15 months later and gitmo is as open as it ever was.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Excuse me, where do we get this yet Obama does nothing stuff?

I remind everyone, the thread topic concerned knowingly keeping innocent people imprisoned. By the time Obama took office, most of the detainees we had no evidence against were already released. But closing GITMO is partially locked up in congress and the legal system is still arguing the question of military tribunals or civilian courts.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
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if bush knew they were innocent he should pay for that. Since Obama knows they are innocent and still is not doing anything he should pay for that.

neither is worse then they other. both are disgusting.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
And this is why I find the modern liberal (as opposed to the classic version) to be such a curious creature. On the one hand, they'll vigorously denounce GWB and nearly his entire gov't as a bunch of corrupt bastards who violated our Constitutional rights and basic ideas of liberty and justice with impunity (and there's a lot of truth to those charges), and yet on the other hand they'll just as vigorously support an expansion of government into all sorts of things, like healthcare. They're like abused wives - "OK, maybe this time, gov't won't beat me!"
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
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oh i see that its closed eh? wait. no its not and he signed that over a year ago!

damn so again. both suck. Bush for putting them in knowing they were innocent and Obama for keeping them in knowing they are innocent.

Agreed.

All I'm saying is that the statement that Obama has done nothing is disengenuous.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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*golf clap*

Obama signed an order to close Gauntanomo and Gitmo and to send the prisoners to trial.

Whether one thinks that's a good idea or not, that's clearly doing something.

When the prison is still open and only a couple are set for trial. Yes, that gesture was nothing but an empty promise. Something everybody but the fools on the left knew when he signed it. The simple fact is they have people in gitmo that they know cant be brought to trial. But they have literally nowhere to send them because no country will take them.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
And this is why I find the modern liberal (as opposed to the classic version) to be such a curious creature. On the one hand, they'll vigorously denounce GWB and nearly his entire gov't as a bunch of corrupt bastards who violated our Constitutional rights and basic ideas of liberty and justice with impunity (and there's a lot of truth to those charges), and yet on the other hand they'll just as vigorously support an expansion of government into all sorts of things, like healthcare. They're like abused wives - "OK, maybe this time, gov't won't beat me!"
I'd suggest your confusion comes from somehow thinking GWB and government are synonymous. That's just as misguided as denouncing all corporations because of the way Ken Lay ran Enron. In both cases, the organization is no better and no worse than the people running it. (Or to use your example, it's like declaring all men and marriages to be abusive because one's current husband is abusive. It's a non sequitur.)

Government is certainly imperfect. It's built from fallible human beings and run by people who often put private agendas and personal ambitions ahead of their organization's best interests. The exact same issues afflict corporations (and unions, and all organizations). Given that both the public and private sector suffer from most of the same inherent problems, the real debates should focus on how to mitigate and manage those problems, and deciding on a case by case basis which is better at filling specific roles and addressing specific needs. Screeching the "Teh gubmint is ebil" or "Teh corporations are ebil" is empty noise that adds nothing of value to that discussion.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
oh i see that its closed eh? wait. no its not and he signed that over a year ago!

damn so again. both suck. Bush for putting them in knowing they were innocent and Obama for keeping them in knowing they are innocent.
I see a lot of ignorance in this thread (imagine that in P&N). In particular, this repeated claim that Obama did nothing about freeing the innocent detainees doesn't hold water at all, at least based on any information presented so far in this thread.

If anyone bothered to read and comprehend the OP (i.e., certainly not FNE and Patranus), they'd notice it refers to the majority of the "initial 742 detainees" as innocent. Two key points in those three words. First, it's the "initial" detainees. Others have since been brought to Gitmo. Second, notice that there were 742 of them. Then notice the last paragraph where it mentions about 180 remain. I know math is hard, but that means at least 562 of those initial detainees are no longer there. Presumably, most of those 562 were among that initial majority said to be innocent. Presumably, the number is significantly higher than 562 that given that more prisoners have been added over the years, yet only 180 total remain.

In short. most of those innocent detainees have already been released, likely during the Bush administration. To blame Obama for failing to release the "majority" who were innocent is absurd, a typical gratuitous attack from the usual twits who've consistently shown they haven't the faintest glimmer of intellectual honesty or depth of thought. In short, they are useless tools who can safely be disregarded.

What would be interesting to know is how many of those "known innocent" detainees, if any, are still at Guantanamo. Has the Obama administration worked aggressively to release them? I don't know. I hope so, but frankly I'm not confident it's true. The Obama administration has shown too much cowardice in doing the right things when it might cause them inconvenient political fallout.
 
Last edited:
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
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I see a lot of ignorance in this thread (imagine that in P&N). In particular, this repeated claim that Obama did nothing about freeing the innocent detainees doesn't hold water at all, at least based on any information presented so far in this thread.

If anyone bothered to read and comprehend the OP (i.e., certainly not FNE and Patranus), they'd notice it refers to the majority of the "initial 742 detainees" as innocent. Two key points in those three words. First, it's the "initial" detainees. Others have since been brought to Gitmo. Second, notice that there were 742 of them. Then notice the last paragraph where it mentions about 180 remain. I know math is hard, but that means at least 562 of those initial detainees are no longer there. Presumably, most of those 562 were among that initial majority said to be innocent. Presumably, the number is significantly higher than 562 that given that more prisoners have been added over the years, yet only 180 total remain.

In short. most of those innocent detainees have already been released, likely during the Bush administration. To blame Obama for failing to release the "majority" who were innocent is absurd, a typical gratuitous attack from the usual twits who've consistently shown they haven't the faintest glimmer of intellectual honesty or depth of thought. In short, they are useless tools who can safely be disregarded.

What would be interesting to know is how many of those "known innocent" detainees, if any, are still at Guantanamo. Has the Obama administration worked aggressively to release them? I don't know. I hope so, but frankly I'm not confident it's true. The Obama administration has shown too much cowardice in doing the right things when it might cause them inconvenient political fallout.
Yes...most of the 'innocent' detainees were released by the Bush administration.

As of December 16 2008, 779 detainees had passed through the facility since it opened in 2002.

As of January 17, 2009, there were approximately 245 detainees and as of December 14, 2009, there were 215 prisoners. Looks like the Obama administration released about 30 'innocents' or transferred them to countries willing to take them. IIRC a few of these 'innocents' were recaptured.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
News Flash: Gitmo Detainees NOT Coming To Trial Anywhere Near YOU!! Not in my backyard works its magic again. Anyone disagree with this as the main reason Gitmo has not closed?