Guys things are tough out there.

[chucky2]

...and your answer:


And by the way, same process more and more with: building the house, roofing it, repairing/remodeling it, plumbing, and the landscaping. Jobs Americans won't do...!

... for peanuts.

Exactly. Each and every time I here some f*cking brain dead moron say that I want to rip their reproductive organs out so they can't pass on their degree of imbecile to the gene pool. To say nothing of the wage depression it brings...

I wouldn't doubt most of the houses that are being built in the area where I live has a master tradesman in a given trade with a journeyman while the rest of the crew if helpers are made up by illegals.

Just depends, but, it is quite prevalent. Like...so prevalent it's long passed the scary level. The best part is this: These greedy business owners, many who inherited their company from their parents/relatives, and now also getting their own family members to feel the pain and it's starting to impact their kids/nephews/nieces (much like white collar management who keeps importing workers from India/China). Now the kids of the illegals, who through infinite wisdom have been allowed to stay here either as illegals, or, who actually are US citizens, are starting their own companies employing - Everyone with a brain guessed it! - their own ethnicity and underbidding the established companies (same deal with white collar workers - now the Indians/Chinese are occupying management positions and they're - shocker - making sure they take care of their own). So now we extend this obvious timeline out, and, again as no surprise to someone with more than zero functioning brain cells, these f*cking selfish ego traitors have basically ensured their own children/grandchildren/and so on will have tons more competition/less stature than they would have had, had they not opened the illegal/insource floodgates for their own short term gain. Their children/grandchildren will thank them so much...Not...

Oh
Well as long as there is someone responsible inspecting and signing off.
It's been that way for a long time, most of the grunt work will be done by apprentices and signed off

It has somewhat been that way for along time, except, rather than illegals from another country doing the work (that is, another countries problem that stays in that country and that is their own problem, along with their kids/grandkids staying there as well), we have replaced US citizens/legal green card holders with illegals. Even better, we pay our own US citizens to sit at home or subsidize them because their wages have been depressed by illegals. Brilliant move by decades of our US Politicians on behalf of the everyday US citizen, huh?

 

[Orignal Earl]

It has somewhat been that way for along time, except, rather than illegals from another country doing the work (that is, another countries problem that stays in that country and this is their own problem, along with their kids/grandkids staying there as well), we have replaced US citizens/legal green card holders with illegals. Even better, we pay our own US citizens to sit at home or subsidize them because their wages have been depressed by illegals. Brilliant move by decades of our US Politicians on behalf of the everyday US citizen, huh?

I'm sure that by far that most people doing trade jobs are not illegals
There does seem to be a huge problem with perspective here in P&N
Do you have any sources for your "facts"?

 

[chucky2]

I'm sure that by far that most people doing trade jobs are not illegals
There does seem to be a huge problem with perspective here in P&N
Do you have any sources for your "facts"?

I've got about 25-30 direct friends (from take a bullet to somewhat frequent acquaintance) that all report the same exact thing, and have been for at least a decade and a half now (and that's just because I'm young, I have about zero doubt people older would extend that timeline). They're all in the trades, and I'd have been myself had I not gone my career route.

This isn't "facts", this is Reality. Not super smart sit in their office professor "reality", not Politician appoint some admin to make sure 'the numbers' aren't politically embarrassing "reality", not illegal sympathize "reality", but real working person in the trades Reality. To be clear:

If you are a good worker and good at what you do, you will generally be able to stay employed and generally be able earn a buck here and there. But that doesn't mean if they hadn't let illegals in to the level they have you'd be making the $65-$100k a year you could have made. Now you're fighting to make $60k. Those are for those that are connected enough to keep their jobs. The people that aren't connected and are just average...well...look, to win the bid the owner either needs to hire illegals or cut workforce...what happens to those US Citizens?

The point is, we have let Millions of competition in today (and yesterday, for 2-3 decades now), and because of that short sighted greed and political expediency, people who could least afford to pay for the affects of that are paying for it. And their lower income/lower-middle income kids are paying for it. Needlessly. All because of greedy and Guilter people.

 

[First]

lol, oh chuck. I like the part where you're outraged that Americans, who happen to be immigrants, take care of their own. Why this is a bad thing is obvious only to you, prejudiced knuckle dragger that you and your ilk are (scarred of blacks on the Metra and all that shit), but FYI, to everyone else it's just odd and sad you label the well-being of not just illegal immigrants but their 2nd generation American children as less important than the well-being of your native whitey friends.

If you had a lick of sense (i.e. education i.e. history i.e. immigration) it's not really difficult to see the exact same things said about the Irish, Italians, etc. taking jobs from "real" Americans in the 20th century. Literally. The. Exact. Same. Arguments. You should have stopped right here:

This isn't "facts", this is Reality.

O rly? lol

 

[chucky2]

lol, oh chuck. I like the part where you're outraged that Americans, who happen to be immigrants, take care of their own.

lol, oh First. It's not outrage at all, I expect them to - why wouldn't they take care of their own? It's baffling why you'd think I'm outraged at illegals/US Citizens of illegals who never would have been here in the first place taking care of their own - it's like you think you understand what I meant because you want it to mean what you think I want it to mean.

Why this is a bad thing is obvious only to you,

Well, it's a bad thing relative to non-illegal derived US Citizens, quite obviously, it's great if you're an illegal or legal spawn of an illegal. I'm not sure how to respond to your obvious view, as I think it's sorta clear it's unique to your mentality...the confused state you live in

prejudiced knuckle dragger that you and your ilk are (scarred of blacks on the Metra and all that shit),

It's odd...I'm not scared of anyone on the Metra, but you keep bringing this up. Perhaps, and this is a stab in the dark here (no pun intended), but, could it be First who has some deep concerns of our darker fellow riders on the lovely Metra?

but FYI, to everyone else

By 'everyone else', we take this to mean First right?

it's just odd and sad you label the well-being of not just illegal immigrants but their 2nd generation American children as less important than the well-being of your native whitey friends.

Finally you get to something that has any basis in Reality. The answer is Yes, I label the well-being of illegals as less important than my native whitey friends, and I even go to 'crazy' lengths and extend this to not only my pigment challenged friends, but also these other groups of people I'd refer to as US Citizens*. *: US Citizens as defined as both native and legally naturalized US Citizens, i.e. not really anchor babies/kids who never should have been here in the first place adding to the competition of all my extended US Citizen family. Crazy huh?

If you had a lick of sense (i.e. education i.e. history i.e. immigration) it's not really difficult to see the exact same things said about the Irish, Italians, etc. taking jobs from "real" Americans in the 20th century. Literally. The. Exact. Same. Arguments. You should have stopped right here:

Different times unfortunately, making the comparisons to a large degree (despite how many want to cling to them to try and tie into the same argument) moot - but I get why you'd attempt to make it. I'll leave you to figure out why there'd be a vast difference in a rapidly expanding simple skill industrialized economy with low social service overhead wanting to import cheap labor (to the degree it was needed or not - assimilation happened but there was not no pain to go with it) vs. our society of today. But hey, lettuce can't cost another $0.10/lb amirite?

O rly? lol

Me thinks you have little exposure/insight to the affect illegals have had on blue collar jobs. Check that...what exactly have you had exposure to? Please don't say something insane like academia, finance, etc...

 

[Exterous]

The poll found that 85 percent of prime-age men without jobs do not have bachelor’s degrees. And 34 percent said they had criminal records, making it hard to find any work.

So someone without a bachelors is more likely to be unemployed than someone with a criminal record? Interesting...

$10/hour is not enough? Last time I check, $10 >>>>>>>>>> $0.

There is more to it than that though. Is $10/hr > Unemployment benefits\food assistance?

 

[First]

lol, oh First. It's not outrage at all, I expect them to - why wouldn't they take care of their own? It's baffling why you'd think I'm outraged at illegals/US Citizens of illegals who never would have been here in the first place taking care of their own - it's like you think you understand what I meant because you want it to mean what you think I want it to mean.

Well, it's a bad thing relative to non-illegal derived US Citizens, quite obviously, it's great if you're an illegal or legal spawn of an illegal. I'm not sure how to respond to your obvious view, as I think it's sorta clear it's unique to your mentality...the confused state you live in

It's odd...I'm not scared of anyone on the Metra, but you keep bringing this up. Perhaps, and this is a stab in the dark here (no pun intended), but, could it be First who has some deep concerns of our darker fellow riders on the lovely Metra?

By 'everyone else', we take this to mean First right?

Finally you get to something that has any basis in Reality. The answer is Yes, I label the well-being of illegals as less important than my native whitey friends, and I even go to 'crazy' lengths and extend this to not only my pigment challenged friends, but also these other groups of people I'd refer to as US Citizens*. *: US Citizens as defined as both native and legally naturalized US Citizens, i.e. not really anchor babies/kids who never should have been here in the first place adding to the competition of all my extended US Citizen family. Crazy huh?

You're not getting the fundamental flaw in your entire position; illegal immigrants and most especially their 2nd generation American citizen children are Americans. "Illegals!" by their nature don't have papers, but this fact says nothing about them as Americans as many millions are every bit as American in attitude, belief and understanding of our politics (40% come here legally and overstay their visa). Now of course, "Illegals!" are certainly a broad category so many don't speak English well or aren't assimilated. There is no exact figure, and attempting to parse which are and aren't is fruitless as many evolve as they live here longer, naturally.

So I'll say it again for you; the fact that you lament the good will and fortune over generations of "Illegals" (and even their entirely American children!) shows you don't understand that they are fundamentally Americans, and you should be happy that Americans are enjoying good fortune, friend. This idea that they work for pennies is xenophobe claptrap; they have this negative wage effect in some specific industries, like construction, and the opposite positive effect in other industries, like agriculture. This idea that they clearly have a net negative economic effect on household wealth is entirely baseless and you know you wouldn't be able to show otherwise if your life depended on. Being adverse to "facts" and all.

Different times unfortunately, making the comparisons to a large degree (despite how many want to cling to them to try and tie into the same argument) moot - but I get why you'd attempt to make it. I'll leave you to figure out why there'd be a vast difference in a rapidly expanding simple skill industrialized economy with low social service overhead wanting to import cheap labor (to the degree it was needed or not - assimilation happened but there was not no pain to go with it) vs. our society of today. But hey, lettuce can't cost another $0.10/lb amirite?

Same. Exact. Arguments. I mean that without equivocation. Italians/Irish work for low wages? Check. They don't speak English well? Check. Don't assimilate? Check. They bring more crime and violence? Check and check. Were you to say these today that the Italians, Irish or Jews bring these attributes, you'd be laughed at. Even if they were once true, the bottom line is that they've assimilated. This is what happens, over time, with immigration.

Me thinks you have little exposure/insight to the affect illegals have had on blue collar jobs. Check that...what exactly have you had exposure to? Please don't say something insane like academia, finance, etc...

I've worked on plenty of commercial (and a few personal residential) construction and real estate projects, and by and large commercial renovation projects use legit labor. There are stricter laws and better oversight, though by no means does my experience make me an expert. Residential it's more prevalent, but it's not a majority of construction workers by any means. It should be cracked down on, and "Illegals!" should be given other means of work and legal status even if they made the mistake of crossing illegally. Enforce the border better (who knows if this is even possible anymore), and managing this will become easier. This xenophobic shit about them being un-American plays to the simple-minded and is easy to say, much harder to justify. The xeno's argument itself is frankly transparent to anyone with any significant experience using illegal labor and befriending many of these hardworking individuals.