Gun violence. Is it the guns or is it the criminals?

[HomerJS]

Did some of my own research with the following questions

What is the violent crime rate per capita US vs UK adjusted for the definition of violent crime.

US Violent Crime Rate (FBI, 2022)​

Includes:

• Homicide
• Rape
• Robbery
• Aggravated assault

Rate:
380 per 100,000 people
(Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reporting 2022)



To match FBI's definition, we'll extract only:

Homicide: 1.1/100K
Rape & serious sexual: 70/100K
Robbery: 110/100K
Serious assaults: 300/100K

Adjusted UK total: ~480 per 100,000
(Source: ONS, year ending March 2023)


Now let's look at gun deaths for children 0-17 US vs UK

US Rate per 100,000 children: 3.5
UK Rate per 100,000 children: .014

Children are 250x more likely to die from guns even though the UK has a higher violent crime rate.

My conclusion, kids in this country are dying at that high a rate BECAUSE of guns not because of more criminals/crime.

 

[soulcougher73]

The gun is just the tool. Its an easy and efficient tool that needs WAY more regulation on who can have one. But the person is to blame as they are shit bricks if they are killing people with a gun. Luckily for the US, we breed shit bricks like they are going out of style.

 

[Moonbeam]

Americans worship the culture we live in. Look at all the pleasures money can buy. Think of the joys of being rich. All of that can be had by the Alpha of our society. You start where you were born and work your way up. It’s a lot tougher for some than for others. One way to ruin your chances of making it to the top is to care about somebody else. The only people who can change things are those who have already made it to where they have that power. Change is in the hands of those who who will have the least interest in it.

The way you keep societal collapse at bay is with the carrot and the stick.

Dream you can make it. Harden yourselves. Fall off the ladder and be eaten by smaller fish.

If things get too rough best to kill yourself, or try suicide by cop. Maybe you can just let off enough steam to get by bellyaching. Good luck with the world we created. And remember, it’s all those other people who lack character. Only lovers go to heaven, so it’s a violence free place that does not exist. Who could believe otherwise?

 

[Greenman]

Did some of my own research with the following questions

What is the violent crime rate per capita US vs UK adjusted for the definition of violent crime.

US Violent Crime Rate (FBI, 2022)​

Includes:

• Homicide
• Rape
• Robbery
• Aggravated assault

Rate:
380 per 100,000 people
(Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reporting 2022)



To match FBI's definition, we'll extract only:

Homicide: 1.1/100K
Rape & serious sexual: 70/100K
Robbery: 110/100K
Serious assaults: 300/100K

Adjusted UK total: ~480 per 100,000
(Source: ONS, year ending March 2023)


Now let's look at gun deaths for children 0-17 US vs UK

US Rate per 100,000 children: 3.5
UK Rate per 100,000 children: .014

Children are 250x more likely to die from guns even though the UK has a higher violent crime rate.

My conclusion, kids in this country are dying at that high a rate BECAUSE of guns not because of more criminals/crime.

Guns are a tool, and that tool is under the control of a human mind. Every killing has a killer.
My hunch is the vast majority of those child deaths are in the 15 through 17 age group and are gang or crime related.
The answers you seek are here.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2802128?cmp=1

 

[dank69]

Guns are a tool. A very efficient tool. So efficient that you can kill people before you even have a chance to think about it. It's a lot harder to do the same with a knife or a hammer or whatever other non-explosive tool you can think of.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Guns are a tool. A very efficient tool. So efficient that you can kill people before you even have a chance to think about it. It's a lot harder to do the same with a knife or a hammer or whatever other non-explosive tool you can think of.

100% this.

 

[Pens1566]

The #s would be DRASTICALLY lower without the guns. How some people can't see this is beyond me.

Well, unless they're just making shit up and lying to themselves. That I can believe.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Violence is violence. Guns make it easy, but it's not the problem (IMHO).

Identify the problem you care about solving. If it's gun related, work on that. If it's not gun related, don't worry about the guns.

 

[K1052]

The #s would be DRASTICALLY lower without the guns. How some people can't see this is beyond me.

Correct. I own a lot of firearms but am not so in love with them that I deny empirical truth.

Well, unless they're just making shit up and lying to themselves. That I can believe.

This is exactly what happens.

 

[Pens1566]

Correct. I own a lot of firearms but am not so in love with them that I deny empirical truth.



This is exactly what happens.

Same.

 

[nOOky]

Behind every intent to harm is a tool, whether it's a fist, a knife, or a firearm. Guns certainly make it a lot easier to kill quickly and efficiently, have you ever heard of drive by knifings? They also make it logistically a lot easier to kill yourself, grab the pistol and pop, versus making your way up high somewhere so you can jump, and you have more time to think about it.

 

[K1052]

Guns are a tool, and that tool is under the control of a human mind. Every killing has a killer.
My hunch is the vast majority of those child deaths are in the 15 through 17 age group and are gang or crime related.
The answers you seek are here.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2802128?cmp=1

Higher violence in under resourced communities? I'm just now hearing this for the first time.

Unintentional firearm discharge is also like the leading cause of accidental death for 17 and under. Largely because most firearm owners are extremely fucking careless with their weapons.

 

[K1052]

Behind every intent to harm is a tool, whether it's a fist, a knife, or a firearm. Guns certainly make it a lot easier to kill quickly and efficiently, have you ever heard of drive by knifings? They also make it logistically a lot easier to kill yourself, grab the pistol and pop, versus making your way up high somewhere so you can jump, and you have more time to think about it.

Also go to a range that gets lots of new shooters and it becomes very quickly apparent how easily people can accidentally kill others and themselves. I've long supported rigorous training for people before they can obtain firearms and the government should even pay for it.

 

[HomerJS]

Violence is violence. Guns make it easy, but it's not the problem (IMHO).

Identify the problem you care about solving. If it's gun related, work on that. If it's not gun related, don't worry about the guns.

It isn't crime. UK has a higher crime rate. What do you think it is?

 

[HomerJS]

Guns are a tool. A very efficient tool. So efficient that you can kill people before you even have a chance to think about it. It's a lot harder to do the same with a knife or a hammer or whatever other non-explosive tool you can think of.

Guns are a tool. Doesn't mean everyone should have that tool because they are irresponsible. Example see this

What the hell are these guys trying to prove? If you are going hunting or target shooting lock your shit up in the truck. These guys have such a hard on for their guns they put themselves and others in a more dangerous situation than necessary.

Statistics already show gun owners are more like to be shot vs non gun owners. I suspect picture like this are one of the reasons.

Also, guns in bars is the most insane thing I've ever heard. What could possibly go wrong. Would you feel more or less safe walking into a crowded bar and seeing these two chuckleheads?

 

[K1052]

People who open carry that are not under actual threat from like wildlife are uniformly the stupidest fucking people you'll ever meet.

Those who open carry long guns are a class beyond that. Galactic scale morons.

 

[HomerJS]

People who open carry that are not under actual threat from like wildlife are uniformly the stupidest fucking people you'll ever meet.

Those who open carry long guns are a class beyond that. Galactic scale morons.

That's why not everyone should be allowed to own the "tool".

Next comes the chant "the criminals will get the guns anyway". Somehow, they don't have that problem in the UK

 

[Pens1566]

Guns are a tool. Doesn't mean everyone should have that tool because they are irresponsible. Example see this

What the hell are these guys trying to prove? If you are going hunting or target shooting lock your shit up in the truck. These guys have such a hard on for their guns they put themselves and others in a more dangerous situation than necessary.

Statistics already show gun owners are more like to be shot vs non gun owners. I suspect picture like this are one of the reasons.

Also, guns in bars is the most insane thing I've ever heard. What could possibly go wrong. Would you feel more or less safe walking into a crowded bar and seeing these two chuckleheads?

MEAL Team Six point man with his booger hook on the bang switch while ordering at chik fil a is "chef's kiss".

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It isn't crime. UK has a higher crime rate. What do you think it is?

Comfort with violence, extreme mental health issues, and centuries of generational trauma.

 

[HomerJS]

Comfort with violence, extreme mental health issues, and centuries of generational trauma.

US
According to the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), about 1 in 5 adults (20-22%) experience mental illness each year.

UK
NHS data shows about 1 in 6 adults (17%) experience a common mental disorder (like anxiety or depression) in a given week.

Mental heath ain't it.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

US
According to the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), about 1 in 5 adults (20-22%) experience mental illness each year.

UK
NHS data shows about 1 in 6 adults (17%) experience a common mental disorder (like anxiety or depression) in a given week.

Mental heath ain't it.

Oh, a lot more than 20-22% of adults are experiencing mental health issues, we just don't acknowledge things like unobstructive addictions, generational trauma, and work obsession/insufficient 'mental health' time as mental illness.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Guns are a tool. Doesn't mean everyone should have that tool because they are irresponsible. Example see this

What the hell are these guys trying to prove? If you are going hunting or target shooting lock your shit up in the truck. These guys have such a hard on for their guns they put themselves and others in a more dangerous situation than necessary.

Statistics already show gun owners are more like to be shot vs non gun owners. I suspect picture like this are one of the reasons.

Also, guns in bars is the most insane thing I've ever heard. What could possibly go wrong. Would you feel more or less safe walking into a crowded bar and seeing these two chuckleheads?

- Bro GUNS ARE FUCKING AWESOME.

Everyone who owns a gun thinks their guns are cool. Everyone who doesn't own a gun secretly thinks guns are cool no matter how much they protest. The two gentlemen above are decked out in gun shit cause GUNS ARE FUCKING COOL and think the guns make them look cool (and TBF the guns make them cooler than whatever MAGA shit they would otherwise be wearing).

If you are killed by gun, it's pretty fucking lame (why didn't you have one of these cool GUNS to defend yourself with BRO), but if you survive a gunshot its so cool you can literally launch a whole music career on it. If you kill someone with a gun, pretty cool but you have to crack an epic one-liner to really achieve turbo cool territory (THIS IS MY BOOMSTICK!).

QED close the topic up nothing else to discuss here.

 

[HomerJS]

Oh, a lot more than 20-22% of adults are experiencing mental health issues, we just don't acknowledge things like unobstructive addictions, generational trauma, and work obsession/insufficient 'mental health' time as mental illness.

i would say the proportions are not out of line with the UK if you are saying the numbers are low

 

[Moonbeam]

Guns are a tool. Doesn't mean everyone should have that tool because they are irresponsible. Example see this

What the hell are these guys trying to prove? If you are going hunting or target shooting lock your shit up in the truck. These guys have such a hard on for their guns they put themselves and others in a more dangerous situation than necessary.

Statistics already show gun owners are more like to be shot vs non gun owners. I suspect picture like this are one of the reasons.

Also, guns in bars is the most insane thing I've ever heard. What could possibly go wrong. Would you feel more or less safe walking into a crowded bar and seeing these two chuckleheads?

Because everybody was put down as children we all have trust issues. These two look to be a couple of nut cases but behind the scary appearance I see twin brothers who deal with their insecurities by looking like they do. It looks to me like a plea not to mess with us. So while I don't go into bars or live in an open carry state, I believe the actual reality would be that because everybody reacts to worry about them being nut cases, you would actually be safer than not sitting next to them. But again, owing to trust issues and stereotyping of people, I would prefer not to test my theory out. I learned as a child what people who frequent bars are like. What I see most painfully in this picture is two old guys whose lives have been fucked by growth hormones fed to cattle to fatten others while fattening ones own wallet. They have been conditioned to what they eat and to vote for no regulation of corporation. It's not supermarkets and restaurants want you to be able to go out on the street and buy decent healthy local farm fresh chemical free food. Millions can't even afford to eat or live in food deserts.

How is anybody going to become a liberal when all of your effort goes into struggling to survive?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

i would say the proportions are not out of line with the UK if you are saying the numbers are low

To be clear, i'm not talking about the US specifically, I'm talking about a global phenomenon. For purposes of discussion I can only point out the US' nature, but the problems we face aren't limited to us.