Gun sales continuing to skyrocket through 2013

[irishScott]

I see you understand the tactics.

I suppose I really shouldn't be challenging you too much. It's a shame to see people shooting themselves in the foot (pun intended), but at least you and those like you are inadvertently serving a higher purpose in doing so.

 

[MagickMan]

And those people are douchebags; but I'm still waiting for you to tell me how it's a form of gun control. That ammo is going to make it onto the market sooner or later. Ammo prices have already come down substantially from their peak and are continuing to fall.

Also as others have noted your links are retarded. Here's some standard .45 ACP target ammo in stock and ready to ship for .48/round. In 2012 I bought similar ammo for ~.38/round.
http://www.luckygunner.com/45-acp-ammo-230-gr-cprn-new-bvac-250-rounds

100-200% my ass.

What the Left-wing ammo hoarders don't understand is that they're making it all worse, from their perspective, because they're creating more business, and that equals higher production capacity (higher demand = more ammo being made) and places more money into the hands of ammo makers, retailers, and eventually fills the coffers of groups like the NRA, which in turn means more lobby money in DC. That's not terribly bright of them.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

What the Left-wing ammo hoarders don't understand is that they're making it all worse, from their perspective, because they're creating more business, and that equals higher production capacity (higher demand = more ammo being made) and places more money into the hands of ammo makers, retailers, and eventually fills the coffers of groups like the NRA, which in turn means more lobby money in DC. That's not terribly bright of them.

I don't think ammo hoarders are generally working based on any political agenda - just to supplement their incomes by selling high on Armslist.

 

[hal2kilo]

I suppose I really shouldn't be challenging you too much. It's a shame to see people shooting themselves in the foot (pun intended), but at least you and those like you are inadvertently serving a higher purpose in doing so.

Yea, I suppose that the real higher purpose of the gun manufactures is just to "protect your right to self defense". And if that hapens to generate a few shekels in the process, it's all good. I'm sure it's all about protecting your freedom.

 

[irishScott]

I don't think ammo hoarders are generally working based on any political agenda - just to supplement their incomes by selling high on Armslist.

This. But as MagickMan said, if anti-gun liberals want to give pro-gun organizations more money, I'm certainly not going to stop them.

 

[Daverino]

I'd like to see the source for this comment.

The data is not that hard to find.

 

[irishScott]

Yea, I suppose that the real higher purpose of the gun manufactures is just to "protect your right to self defense". And if that hapens to generate a few shekels in the process, it's all good. I'm sure it's all about protecting your freedom.

Given that protecting my right to self defense and freedom makes them money, it kinda is one way or another. Never mind the fact that the vast majority people who work in the gun industry (here's a shocker) actually like guns, own guns, and shoot guns; and therefore overwhelmingly believe in gun freedoms. Granted such beliefs are impossible for people like you to understand (for some reason, they're hardly rocket science), so you replace it with conspiracy. It's pitiful, and it shows.

 

[Daverino]

Right, it's all one big conspiracy. People who think like you are why gun control initiatives fail. You don't know gun owners, you don't know the issues, and it shows.

I know all the issues and the global truth is that developed countries without firearms or with required registration have significantly lower gun violence and violent crime. I also know that the rest of the developed world has not sunken into a crime-ridden dystopia despite these gun laws. In my mind, there is no logical argument for having a well-armed populace.

I also know that gun ownership is a right under the Constitution and, barring a Constitutional amendment, that right is not going anywhere. I look at that as a 'Bad Thing' but there are many more 'Good Things' in America that I grimace and move on. I am very happy, though, that I live in a part of the country with good gun control laws.

And finally, I know that business is business and guns are business. Gun stores and manufacturers are not following some altruistic crusade to keep America in a perpetual state of Freedom. They are no better than cigarette manufacturers. They sell a deadly product willingly and they do so to make money. Lots of money. That is what a good company should do and, as a capitalist, I can't disagree with their business plan.

 

[irishScott]

The data is not that hard to find.

Self ownage? You posted:

The number of households owning guns has steadily declined for decades

From your pitiful attempt at condescension:

Yeah, gotta love that heavily fluctuating "steady decline" that also happens to not include data for 2013 (when millions of guns were sold and a lot of new owners were brought in). Not to mention there are multiple factors that go into said fluctuations, from people who don't want to go on the record that they have a gun in their home to fewer people per modern household.

 

[irishScott]

I know all the issues and the global truth is that developed countries without firearms or with required registration have significantly lower gun violence and violent crime. I also know that the rest of the developed world has not sunken into a crime-ridden dystopia despite these gun laws. In my mind, there is no logical argument for having a well-armed populace.

I also know that gun ownership is a right under the Constitution and, barring a Constitutional amendment, that right is not going anywhere. I look at that as a 'Bad Thing' but there are many more 'Good Things' in America that I grimace and move on. I am very happy, though, that I live in a part of the country with good gun control laws.

And finally, I know that business is business and guns are business. Gun stores and manufacturers are not following some altruistic crusade to keep America in a perpetual state of Freedom. They are no better than cigarette manufacturers. They sell a deadly product willingly and they do so to make money. Lots of money. That is what a good company should do and, as a capitalist, I can't disagree with their business plan.

So we're a crime-ridden dystopia now? Apparently we're a crime ridden dystopia with a steadily declining murder rate (including gun homicides). http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

Oh and the international comparisons! I love these, they're so dim. They equate the US to other nations and have no more substance than "Hey! It worked somewhere else under radically different circumstances! It'll work here because we're western too!" Fact is the US is historically unique in both our economic and cultural disposition towards guns. Any European or Canadian style system employed here would require warrantless door-to-door searches of the entire nation to be effective, as the criminals wouldn't give two shits and would have access to a near infinite black-market. You think guns can't roll over our southern border along with drugs and people?

 

[Venix]

I know all the issues and the global truth is that developed countries without firearms or with required registration have significantly lower gun violence and violent crime. I also know that the rest of the developed world has not sunken into a crime-ridden dystopia despite these gun laws. In my mind, there is no logical argument for having a well-armed populace.

You're talking out of your ass. The US has less violent crime than gun-free utopias like England. The US violent crime rate has also been dropping for 20 years despite a doubling in the number of firearms and nearly every state drastically loosening its gun laws.

Violent crime in the US is also heavily concentrated in a small number of high crime areas, and the "victims" are often criminals themselves: e.g. 91% of Baltimore murder victims have criminal records.

 

[Daverino]

Self ownage? You posted:


From your pitiful attempt at condescension:

Yeah, gotta love that heavily fluctuating "steady decline" that also happens to not include data for 2013 (when millions of guns were sold and a lot of new owners were brought in). Not to mention there are multiple factors that go into said fluctuations, from people who don't want to go on the record that they have a gun in their home to a few number of people per household.

Chart shows about a 15% drop in household ownership over the last 40 years. Pew Research and shows the same:

http://www.people-press.org/2013/03/12/section-3-gun-ownership-trends-and-demographics/

As does the General Social Survey.

The NYTimes writes about it here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html

But if you don't like that Commie rag, try Glenn Beck's The Blaze for the exact same information: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...rica-and-is-gun-ownership-actually-declining/

 

[Daverino]

You're talking out of your ass. The US has less violent crime than gun-free utopias like England. The US violent crime rate has also been dropping for 20 years despite a doubling in the number of firearms and nearly every state drastically loosening its gun laws.

Violent crime in the US is also heavily concentrated in a small number of high crime areas, and the "victims" are often criminals themselves: e.g. 91% of Baltimore murder victims have criminal records.

The publication you posted does not support your assertion.

If you're buying into that 'England has 10 times the violent crime of the US' meme, that comes from an apples to oranges comparison 'Violent crime' from the FBI and 'Violent crime' from the UK Home Office. Politifact has you covered.

 

[Daverino]

So we're a crime-ridden dystopia now?

No. And I'm getting tired of having to explain my posts to you.

I'm saying we will NOT become a crime-ridden dystopia if we enact gun control. I didn't use tricky language or try to deceive you. You simply read what you wanted to read and then posted a rebuttal to what you really wanted to see.

 

[Nebor]

The publication you posted does not support your assertion.

If you're buying into that 'England has 10 times the violent crime of the US' meme, that comes from an apples to oranges comparison 'Violent crime' from the FBI and 'Violent crime' from the UK Home Office. Politifact has you covered.

So according to that, equal amounts of violent crime, but here you at least have the opportunity to defend yourself from it?

 

[RampantAndroid]

Actually, you'd be wrong about that, 10 - 20% increase? Try 100-200% ... for ammunition. You kinda need ammo to use your guns, and you don't buy them 'once every couple years'. Apparently, even non-gun owners are buying up all the ammo increasing the prices even more and screwing gun owners by gouging them. The gun boom has actually hurt gun owners and they're complaining about not even being able to buy ammo. Funny thing is, electing a democrat is sort of a way to control gun sales because the prices skyrocket so much, just look at all the rednecks complaining about how they can't buy ammo anymore LMAO:

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejo7ii

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/cejm04m

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejr55f

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejpie5

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejt029

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejt8eu

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejucsk

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejo7u5

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejtr3w

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejmjbb

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejtpz7

I guess making gun owners poorer is a good thing.

Actually, if you had any amount of knowledge of events here...you'd know the federal government drove prices up. They ordered 2-3 billion rounds of ammo; ammunition manufacturers like Federal have an agreement with the federal gov't that they must fill any government contracts BEFORE filling civilian orders. So by ordering way more ammo than Federal had on hand, the federal government stopped the supply of ammunition available to civilians, and so as more people wanted ammo and there was less of it, prices skyrocketed.

Congrats, your tax dollars are why ammo costs jumped.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Chart shows about a 15% drop in household ownership over the last 40 years. Pew Research and shows the same:

http://www.people-press.org/2013/03/12/section-3-gun-ownership-trends-and-demographics/

As does the General Social Survey.

The NYTimes writes about it here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html

But if you don't like that Commie rag, try Glenn Beck's The Blaze for the exact same information: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...rica-and-is-gun-ownership-actually-declining/

There is no national gun register; that chart is made from people WILLINGLY saying they own guns. How many gun owners don't want to publish whether they own guns? The actual number of gun owners is equal to or greater than the number in that chart - and as more people fear guns being confiscated (a real fear in NY) less people will admit to owning them.

So to me, that chart isn't so useful.

 

[Venix]

The publication you posted does not support your assertion.

If you're buying into that 'England has 10 times the violent crime of the US' meme, that comes from an apples to oranges comparison 'Violent crime' from the FBI and 'Violent crime' from the UK Home Office. Politifact has you covered.

From your own link: "Polling data showed that England and Wales had 2,600 cases of robbery per 100,000 population and 8,100 cases of "assaults and threats" per 100,000. While those figures are even higher than the meme suggested, the U.S levels are also much higher -- 1,100 cases of robbery and 8,300 cases of assaults and threats per 100,000."

That clearly contradicts your false claim that "developed countries without firearms or with required registration have significantly lower ... violent crime."

 

[Daverino]

So according to that, equal amounts of violent crime, but here you at least have the opportunity to defend yourself from it?

If people with guns are able to defend themselves from violent crime, as you assert, then logically the well-armed US should have a lower violent crime rate than an unarmed country.

Discuss.

 

[Nebor]

Actually, you'd be wrong about that, 10 - 20% increase? Try 100-200% ... for ammunition. You kinda need ammo to use your guns, and you don't buy them 'once every couple years'. Apparently, even non-gun owners are buying up all the ammo increasing the prices even more and screwing gun owners by gouging them. The gun boom has actually hurt gun owners and they're complaining about not even being able to buy ammo. Funny thing is, electing a democrat is sort of a way to control gun sales because the prices skyrocket so much, just look at all the rednecks complaining about how they can't buy ammo anymore LMAO:

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejo7ii

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejm04m

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejr55f

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejpie5

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejt029

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejt8eu

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejucsk

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejo7u5

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejtr3w

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejmjbb

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1umi5o/gun_sales_hit_new_record_ammo_boom_to_follow/cejtpz7

I guess making gun owners poorer is a good thing.

Putting aside the many blatantly obvious problems with your supposed "scheme" to drive up ammo prices (and pour billions more dollars into the gun industry,) since the very best predictor of criminality is socioeconomic status, do you really think making gun owners poorer is a good thing?

The reality of it is that only newbies and suckers were paying those sky high prices. Most seasoned gun owners have plenty of ammunition and are able to bargain hunt and wait out high prices. I'd say that today's prices have pretty much settled down, and I don't find them to be too outrageous. Of course, I'm a bargain hunter type, and hardly a week goes by that I don't have ammunition coming in the mail.

 

[RampantAndroid]

If people with guns are able to defend themselves from violent crime, as you assert, then logically the well-armed US should have a lower violent crime rate than an unarmed country.

Discuss.

That's not a good conclusion. Even if someone defends themselves it's a violent crime in the statistics. What you should argue is that guns deter violent crime. There's what, 20k+ reports of guns being used in self defense a year?

I however challenge the accuracy of the statistics; last I looked the violent crime rate in the US was MUCH lower than that of the UK.

 

[Daverino]

There is no national gun register; that chart is made from people WILLINGLY saying they own guns. How many gun owners don't want to publish whether they own guns? The actual number of gun owners is equal to or greater than the number in that chart - and as more people fear guns being confiscated (a real fear in NY) less people will admit to owning them.

So to me, that chart isn't so useful.

So thirty years of polling data is not relevant because you think people are lying. This leads me to conclude that:

1. You don't know anything about statistics
2. You thought Romney was totally going to win in 2012.

 

[MagickMan]

The data is not that hard to find.

A Gallup poll that shows a <2% trend, that's completely within their own confessed margin of error, since 1972? Really? :hmm:

 

[Daverino]

I however challenge the accuracy of the statistics; last I looked the violent crime rate in the US was MUCH lower than that of the UK.

If that is true, then you have a source for your data, correct? Please post your source in your next reply.

 

[Nebor]

If people with guns are able to defend themselves from violent crime, as you assert, then logically the well-armed US should have a lower violent crime rate than an unarmed country.

Discuss.

I would say the large number of guns would logically indicate a higher rate of violent crime, while at the same time, guns in the hands of "good guys" defending themselves bring that rate down to that of an unarmed country. So it's essentially a wash, with the suckers unwilling\unable to have a gun getting the short end of the stick.