gun duels

[pontifex]

i'm sure everyone's seen at least one movie where 2 guys have a gun duel in the middle of a western town's street right?

after reading some of the gun threads on here today, i had a thought.

i don't know all the particulars behind a gun duel but one of the most important aspects is speed - drawing your gun and firing the fastest. most revolvers back then seemed to have fairly long barrels.

what if one of the duellists had a a revolver with a shorter barrel? like a snub nose revolver? that would require less time in drawing it from your holster and bringing it to bear on your opponent.

i realize that with a shorter barrel you have less accuracy and range, but i'm sure someone who would be a part of duels would practice and become good.

is this a possiblity? were snub nose revolvers around back then or are they a more recent invention?

 

[Ika]

I'm not sure if the tradeoff between accuracy and speed would be worth it.

 

[Atheus]

I challenge you to a duel! *GLOVESLAP*

I'd dive to the right, draw, and fire at the same time - hope they miss. I think this is illegal under the old English rules though, you can only draw and fire and you're expected to stand and take being shot.

 

[Slappy00]

too bad all the good duelists died oh about 200 years ago

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Aflac
I'm not sure if the tradeoff between accuracy and speed would be worth it.

well, usually in a gun duel, they aren't all that far away so i'm not sure accuracy would fall off that much?

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aflac
I'm not sure if the tradeoff between accuracy and speed would be worth it.

well, usually in a gun duel, they aren't all that far away so i'm not sure accuracy would fall off that much?

i guess it depends. correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't revolver barrels rifled back then? if so, i'm guessing the accuracy would've made at least some difference.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: pontifex
i'm sure everyone's seen at least one movie where 2 guys have a gun duel in the middle of a western town's street right?

after reading some of the gun threads on here today, i had a thought.

i don't know all the particulars behind a gun duel but one of the most important aspects is speed - drawing your gun and firing the fastest. most revolvers back then seemed to have fairly long barrels.

what if one of the duellists had a a revolver with a shorter barrel? like a snub nose revolver? that would require less time in drawing it from your holster and bringing it to bear on your opponent.

i realize that with a shorter barrel you have less accuracy and range, but i'm sure someone who would be a part of duels would practice and become good.

is this a possiblity? were snub nose revolvers around back then or are they a more recent invention?

Have you ever shot a snub nose revolver? Not only are they less accurate but they produce more felt recoil. The only thing they are good for is concealing IMO and at the sacrifice of everything else.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

The fraction of a second that you would gain in speed would not be worth the loss in accuracy. The guns of that era were none too accurate to start with

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Aflac

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aflac
I'm not sure if the tradeoff between accuracy and speed would be worth it.

well, usually in a gun duel, they aren't all that far away so i'm not sure accuracy would fall off that much?

i guess it depends. correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't revolver barrels rifled back then? if so, i'm guessing the accuracy would've made at least some difference.

i don't know.

 

[Baked]

Long barrel = better accuracy. Short barrel = kills somebody else.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: pontifex
i'm sure everyone's seen at least one movie where 2 guys have a gun duel in the middle of a western town's street right?

after reading some of the gun threads on here today, i had a thought.

i don't know all the particulars behind a gun duel but one of the most important aspects is speed - drawing your gun and firing the fastest. most revolvers back then seemed to have fairly long barrels.

what if one of the duellists had a a revolver with a shorter barrel? like a snub nose revolver? that would require less time in drawing it from your holster and bringing it to bear on your opponent.

i was just curious as to what people would think about its possibility.
i realize that with a shorter barrel you have less accuracy and range, but i'm sure someone who would be a part of duels would practice and become good.

is this a possiblity? were snub nose revolvers around back then or are they a more recent invention?

Have you ever shot a snub nose revolver? Not only are they less accurate but they produce more felt recoil. The only thing they are good for is concealing IMO and at the sacrifice of everything else.

no, i haven't. obviously, this is just a what if kind of thing since people aren't having gun duels in the middle of the street anymore (at least not the kind i'm talking about anyway).

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
The fraction of a second that you would gain in speed would not be worth the loss in accuracy. The guns of that era were none too accurate to start with

yeah, thats true, i didn't think about that.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aflac
I'm not sure if the tradeoff between accuracy and speed would be worth it.

well, usually in a gun duel, they aren't all that far away so i'm not sure accuracy would fall off that much?

10 paces would be about 15-20 yards. That's pretty far for a short barrel revolver with someone shooting at you.

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
10 paces would be about 15-20 yards. That's pretty far for a short barrel revolver with someone shooting at you.

Damn, dude... You must be a giant to have a stride that long!

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
10 paces would be about 15-20 yards. That's pretty far for a short barrel revolver with someone shooting at you.

Damn, dude... You must be a giant to have a stride that long!

Unless you are dueling with a stationary paper target last I checked both guys walk out 10 paces from each other right?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
10 paces would be about 15-20 yards. That's pretty far for a short barrel revolver with someone shooting at you.

Damn, dude... You must be a giant to have a stride that long!

heh, yeah, thats 40-60 feet. 10 paces (for each person) is like 20 feet or so.

although, you guys are talking like English dueling where they stand back to back, walk 10 paces turn and fire.

i'm talking about 2 cowboys (for lack of better term) facing each other down and quickdraw type thing.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
10 paces would be about 15-20 yards. That's pretty far for a short barrel revolver with someone shooting at you.

Damn, dude... You must be a giant to have a stride that long!

Unless you are dueling with a stationary paper target last I checked both guys walk out 10 paces from each other right?

i thought a pace was just like 10 steps, not leaps.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
10 paces would be about 15-20 yards. That's pretty far for a short barrel revolver with someone shooting at you.

Damn, dude... You must be a giant to have a stride that long!

Unless you are dueling with a stationary paper target last I checked both guys walk out 10 paces from each other right?

i thought a pace was just like 10 steps, not leaps.

If it's two guys 6' tall walking in opposite directions at normal pace you'd expect about 15 yards. 0.75 per stride.

 

[spikespiegal]

I was watching something on the tube awhile back that totally debunked the entire myth of the Western Style Duel. Basically, the invention of the hip style holster was a relatively new invention for the sake of turn of the century Western Shows, etc.

Real gunmen who wanted a jump on their opponent would carry their firearm in a chest style holster, which was a lot easier and quicker to deal with than a hip hugger. Better yet, they'd carry a Winchester Repeater, and give themselves a 1000x increase in lethality and accuracy over any long barrel revolver.

A cool movie a saw a few years back that at least tried to get the physics right in terms of old West style shoot-outs was 'Open Range'.

 

[preslove]

The western style, revolver dual is a total hollywood myth. Your average horse stealing, whore carousing, clint eastwood style gun fighter would never stand out in the open with someone shooting at them. Duals never got further west than tennessee and stopped occuring almost totally in the 1830's. Before then the guns were the old front loading powder guns. These duals were rather slow, because if you shot first and missed you probably died.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: spikespiegal
I was watching something on the tube awhile back that totally debunked the entire myth of the Western Style Duel. Basically, the invention of the hip style holster was a relatively new invention for the sake of turn of the century Western Shows, etc.

Real gunmen who wanted a jump on their opponent would carry their firearm in a chest style holster, which was a lot easier and quicker to deal with than a hip hugger. Better yet, they'd carry a Winchester Repeater, and give themselves a 1000x increase in lethality and accuracy over any long barrel revolver.

A cool movie a saw a few years back that at least tried to get the physics right in terms of old West style shoot-outs was 'Open Range'.

i didn't know that.

like i said, just fun and curious thought i had.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
10 paces would be about 15-20 yards. That's pretty far for a short barrel revolver with someone shooting at you.

Damn, dude... You must be a giant to have a stride that long!

Unless you are dueling with a stationary paper target last I checked both guys walk out 10 paces from each other right?

i thought a pace was just like 10 steps, not leaps.

If it's two guys 6' tall walking in opposite directions at normal pace you'd expect about 15 yards. 0.75 per stride.

This was a rare type of duel. French, I think. The normal english style was pretty far away and stationary. Andrew Jackson did the french pacing style once (out of many many times) and everyone said that it was bullshlt because it was a foreign style that the guy who he killed wasn't prepared for.

 

[ruffilb]

Kevlar.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

In the battle at the OK corral, all but one person had a heavy caliber shotgun. And that one other guy had a double barrelled shotgun. He killed two people before taking cover.