Guide needed to overclock an AMD Opteron 165 (939 pin)

[ahmadka]

Hi guys....It seems to me, that now that newer games are coming out, which require more CPU power, its probably time I tried overclocking on my year old Opteron 165...

In fact, the reason why I bought an Opteron 165, was because it is said to be a good overclocker...and I think its time I put that to the test..

So basically I'm looking for a guide meant for overclocking an Opteron 165..and which is fairly detailed, since I have never done any overclocking before....

But dont get me wrong..I'm pretty good with PCs, and I can understand their technical bits ...I chose all PC parts for my rig myself, through online forums/materials/guides, etc...

Do you have any guides in mind which might help me out ?

Also, I have another question regarding the Opteron 165....My CPU has an idle temperature in Vista, of about 41*C ~ 44*C....is that getting too hot ? I dont think so, but I just wanted to confirm...

Thanx in advance...

 

[o1die]

I would try simply changing the cpu fsb setting from 200 to 240 or 250, since you have ddr500. If you get a no post situation, simply use the cmos jumper to reset the bios, by moving the jumper over one position to the open pin, then return it to the original position. If you want to go higher, set the memory to 166, and try for 270.

 

[MadScientist]

Zebo's Quick and Dirty OC Guide should be sufficient. Link I use Orthos for stress testing and Core Temp for CPU temp monitoring. What program are you using to monitor your CPU temps, 41- 44 C idle, depending on your room temps, is high. My oc'ed opty 170 (2.7 ghz) runs, depending on ambient (room) temps, on stock voltage at 28-30C idle, 46 - 50 C full load using an AC Freezer 64 Pro HS.
Is your TIM applied correctly and heatsink seated properly? Case airflow sufficient?

 

[WildHorse]

Here's the guide for that:

OC guide for AMD rigs

Other guide

Other guide

Other list of 8 OC guides for AMD rigs

My CPU has an idle temperature in Vista, of about 41*C ~ 44*C....is that getting too hot ?

That's a fine temp. Good.

Also keep in mind that mere voltage by itself, irregardless of the heat it creates, will gradually, eventually, damage the cpu. It'll probably be way down the timeline before such damage becomes noticeable, after the cpu's obsolescence time anyway. Nevertheless, it's something to know about, though rarely mentioned in forums like this.

When you OC, part of proving the stability of trial settings involves running stress tests like OCCT and Prime95 or Orthos version of Prime95, during which your cpu gets a lot hotter than during normal use. So it's the max temp while under stress testing that you have to keep a careful eye on.

As you OC, you have to give it more volts which makes heat, so you'll want to study up a bit on cpu coolers & thermal paste (read the product info here for education on thermal paste).. I buy mine from SVC

That motherboard you've got is excellent, superior, for overclocking.
I"ve got 2 of the same mobo, one with an Opty, other with an X2 4200, both air cooled.

If you PM your e-mail address to me, I'll send you my excel sheet for keeping track of your OC settings. Let me know if you want it in excel 2007 ".xlsx" format, or older ."xls" format, or OpenOffice calc format.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: o1die
If you want to go higher, set the memory to 166, and try for 270.

Actually, for only 270 Mhz HTT, the 166 divider is too low. He'd want to use the 180 divider, which would put his RAM @ 244 or 245. Also, at 280 HTT, his RAM will only be @ ~255, if using the 180 divider: CPU-Z screenshot.

 

[ajemm]

There is a pretty good guide here. You certainly have the right motherboard and RAM for overclocking. You should get at least 2700 MHz out of that set up.

As for your temps. What CPU cooler are you using? If your running stock and you're above 40°C you're going to need better cooling. My 175 @2.5GHz is idling around 30°C with a room temp right now of 24°C/75°F.

 

[Regalk]

I have been running mine at 2933 for quite a while on the DFI Ultra-D soon to be retired. The DFI boards are very picky with memory timings so you have to be careful. DFIstreet used to be a really good resource (google). These were arguably the best S939 boards out there.
Can't remember the timings now for my OCZ PC3200 performance series (in my basement along with my other boxes) but you have to do some research.

 

[WildHorse]

The way different guides write about it can make it confusing.

Here's how I simplify it:

Think of it as a 3-planet solar system. The 3 planets are named
"HTT bus speed,"
"cpu speed" and
"DRAM speed."

All 3 planets orbit around the central sun which is named
"HTT reference number."

a) So "HTT bus speed" is the "HTT reference number" multiplied by some multiplier (in DFI bios this multiplier is named "LDT").

b) "Cpu speed" is also that same "HTT reference number" multiplied by some cpu multiplier (I think the Opty 165 multiplier is 9).

c) "DRAM speed" is also the same "HTT reference number" multiplied by some ratio.

You'll see a menu of available ratio settings in your bios.
When you run your ram at a ratio of 1:1 (which equals 1/1 = 100%) then that "HTT reference number" is the memory speed. In other words, DRAM speed equals 100% of the HTT ref number.

Or you might need run your ram slower than your HTT bus speed by setting the ram's ratio to some lesser fraction than 1:1. You might set the DRAM speed ratio to 9/10 (=0.90) or 5/6 (=0.83) or some other some other fraction of the HTT reference number.

NOTE: If you have DFI bios 704-2bta ( what I use) the RAM multiplier labeled "9/10" (90% of HTT REF number) is really 11/12 ( 91.7% of HTT ref number) instead. I don't know if this is also true for other DFI bios's.

 

[ahmadka]

OK, I thought I should shed some light on this somewhat CPU temperature issue that I'm also having...

When I had first got this rig setup, I remember that the CPU temperature was stable at 32~33*C in the BIOS...now, about 10 months later, its around 37~39*C in the BIOS...

The reason ? I'm not sure, but I think its probably because of the dust that builds up inside the casing over time, cuz I havent opened up my rig for a long time now

Although I still have to clean up the rig from the inside, I thought I should ask you lot if you think this dust thing could have caused this slight increase in the CPU temperature...

My ambient temperature is about in early 30's in the mornings, and in 20's at night, but my ambient temperature doesnt really have any significant impact on my rig's temperatures, from what I have noticed...

And one more thing, I use MBM 5 to monitor the temps in windows...The idle CPU temperature is about 41~44*C in Vista, and about 39~42*C in XP.......this temperature jumps to about 46~49*C when I'm doing something relatively heavy..

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: scott
Here's the guide for that:

OC guide for AMD rigs

Other guide

Other guide

Other list of 8 OC guides for AMD rigs

Scott,

Thanks for all the links.

 

[ahmadka]

OK people, check this out :


To verify the above temperatures I mentioned, I decided to verify the temps in WinXP. I have a dual boot system, with Vista as my primary OS, and XP as a back, which hardly has anything installed in it apart from drivers...

So anyway, the conclusion is, that temperatures in XP are a lot lower than they are in vista ...check this:

Idle temp:

Vista = 41~44*C
XP =32~34*C

Relatively heavy computation (making Divx's):

Vista = 46~49*C
XP = havent tried yet

OCCT (Dual Core version)CPU Stress Testing (almost constant 100% CPU Usage for 30 minutes):

Vista=Havent tried yet
XP = 41~43*C


So temperatures seem to be a lot lower in XP for some reason...maybe cuz XP is not hogging the CPU all the time in background as Vista does ...

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: ahmadka
So temperatures seem to be a lot lower in XP for some reason...maybe cuz XP is not hogging the CPU all the time in background as Vista does ...

More likely an error in the Vista readings. The cause . . . anyone's guess.

 

[ahmadka]

I decided to check out the temps in the BIOS as well, to figure out this confusion...the PWMIC, and chipset temps are more or less the same as they are in XP, but the core temp fluctuates between 37-38*C in the BIOS...This is 34~35*C in XP, and about 41~44*C in Vista...

Maybe, by some strange chance, XP it putting less pressure on the CPU than the BIOS does ....

Anyways, I have a question regarding OCing and temps...

Assume that my ambient temperature is in early 30s in the day, and 20s in the evening/nights, and that the idle core temps are as I have mentioned above....Then what is the MAX idle core temp I can allow, after any overclocks ?

I am asking because I have seen people having Opty 165's which have been OC'ed so much that its idle temperature is about 59*C.....is this temperature normal for a CPU?

I am asking this because I dont know much about computer temperature ranges, and I dont specifically know the range of 'safe' temperatures....I just know that whenever my CPU reaches 47~49*C (when under very heavy load), I start praying that my CPU doesnt burn down or anything....

 

[WildHorse]

If you download this .pdf file from AMD

First Generation AMD Opteron Processor Part Numbers

I think your cpu is probably the one listed in the very last row on Page 1.

It shows: Maximum temperature from 49 degrees C to 65 deg C.

I don't understand why AMD shows a range from 49 - 65 for the maximum instead of a single temperature, but if I were you I'd try to keep it under the lower of those two, under 49 degrees C.

So that means you are fine where you are now. Congratulations.

I watched your YouTube video. Well done & funny!

 

[ahmadka]

OK, thanx for being such a help guys....

Thanx for pointing that out scott, I didnt see that coming....

Hmm... so does that mean that my CPU has a limit on its head ? In terms of temperature and voltage ? I was under the impression that a 50~55*C idle temperature is OK...so based on that, the 65*C limit isnt bothering me much, but the 1.35 V limit.......Is that really limiting the full potential I can reach with my CPU ?

Also, I got some more Qs:

1) I have read a decent amount of overclocking guides by now, and I have grasped onto many concepts very well ....The only thing I am still looking for are some overclocking examples....you know, some sample values, and how we managed to overclock them... If I could get about 15-20 overclocking test case problems, I think my concepts wud become even more clearer, and complement my theoretical knowhow... So far, all the tutorials I have seen only have one or two such problems at max...So do you know where I can probably get some more of them ?

2) My concepts regarding the general CPU and FSB overclocking are pretty much OK now...I know about the RAM related stuff too, like the RAM divider concept and everything, but I still need to do some more reading in this area ..... any guides ?

3) Related to the above RAM topic....As you can see in my sig, I have a DDR500 RAM...So I should be able to go to 250 on the FSB with a 1:1 ratio right ? After that, I either need to start using the dividers, or change the timings of the RAM...right ?

2) Also, I think, provided I can get the above mentioned objectives done, I am pretty much ready for my first practical ..... Assuming I have done my reading and everything, what is the first thing you think I should do ? What should be my first hit at the hardware ? My first step to achieving an initial overclock ?

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: ahmadka
The reason ? I'm not sure, but I think its probably because of the dust that builds up inside the casing over time, cuz I havent opened up my rig for a long time now

Although I still have to clean up the rig from the inside, I thought I should ask you lot if you think this dust thing could have caused this slight increase in the CPU temperature...

Clean that thing out before trying to OC. I had a lady recently bring me her box, it would shut down about 5 minutes after booting up. Every time. I thought it might be a failing power supply, until I opened it up and found the HSF so clogged with dust that the fan couldn't spin. The cpu was overheating and the self-protect would shut it down to prevent damage. The heat sink was very very hot to the touch even several minutes after shutdown.

$5 can of compressed air later and the system worked great again and the HS stayed nice and cool.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: Denithor
I had a lady recently bring me her box, it would shut down about 5 minutes after booting up. Every time. I thought it might be a failing power supply, until I opened it up and found the HSF so clogged with dust that the fan couldn't spin. The cpu was overheating and the self-protect would shut it down to prevent damage. The heat sink was very very hot to the touch even several minutes after shutdown.

$5 can of compressed air later and the system worked great again and the HS stayed nice and cool.

Gag choke cough cough!!! I'd used a vacuum.

 

[WildHorse]

Related to the above RAM topic....As you can see in my sig, I have a DDR500 RAM...So I should be able to go to 250 on the FSB with a 1:1 ratio right ? After that, I either need to start using the dividers, or change the timings of the RAM...right ?

If you can pass Memtest86+ with no errors while at a 1:1 ratio, then do that. If you get errors then you'll have to back off to some lesser ratio. Before you reduce the ratio you might experimment with a little higher vdimm first, if it's not too high already.

IF you desire to work on your overclock more you could try to increase memory performance.

However with AMD's memory controller on the cpu, the main thing is the cpu performance + simply getting the ram to not throw any errors. That's where you get the biggest performance payoff for your effort.

If you want to put more time into tweaking your ram just as a way to learn more about the subject of OC, you could try this:

a) IF your keyboard connects to your computer by USB, then go into DFI bios / Integrated Peripherals / USB Keyboard Support and set it to Enable. This is necessary for (d) below.

b) Download Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool and put it on a disk.

c) Boot from that disk and Memtest86+ will automatically start running.

d) While it's running use your C key to change the various ram parameters. It'll let you change some but not all of them while the test runs. Watch the upper left area where it shows the total overall MB/s readout, and see if you can make MB/s (i.e.; memory bandwidth) a bigger number with your tweaks.

e) As you already know from those OC guides, at whatever settings you eventually decide on you next want to pass Memtest86+. For my particular case, its test #7 is the only one where I sometimes get errors, so I run about 25 loops of only test 7 first to expose any potential failures. Other guys' experiences may be different.

Then use Memtest86+ in whatever way is recommended in whichever OC guide you like.

I personally want to see 25 loops of the complete series of all 8 tests with no RAM errors before I begin OCCT and 24 hours of Orthos stability testing, but other guys will tell you fewer loops. My way I get a well overclocked and very stable rig. I can't remember the last time I ever saw a BSOD on one of my overclocked rigs after it's been adjusted to pass stability testing.

Again, this is merely a suggestion IF you want to play with your OC some more.
Your main OC payoff on an AMD rig is to get the cpu right, and the ram to not throw any errors, at the lowest voltages, to minimize heat.

It may further help you to read the discussion about your OCZ RAM here.



Some OC examples like you asked for are
OC examples 1

and OC examples 2,

and

OC examples 3

OC examples 4

and

OC examples 5

and

OC examples 6

and there are several others out there.

If you put a better cpu cooler on there than the stock cooler shown in your video, then you could increase voltage and get a faster overclock while keeping the temp low. But you'd have to decide if that's worth the money. I'd probably save my money for the next generation of new hardware coming out soon.

edit: link repair

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: ahmadka

3) Related to the above RAM topic....As you can see in my sig, I have a DDR500 RAM...So I should be able to go to 250 on the FSB with a 1:1 ratio right ? After that, I either need to start using the dividers, or change the timings of the RAM...right ?

2) Also, I think, provided I can get the above mentioned objectives done, I am pretty much ready for my first practical ..... Assuming I have done my reading and everything, what is the first thing you think I should do ? What should be my first hit at the hardware ? My first step to achieving an initial overclock ?

PC3200 ram clock is doubled 200MHz (X2) = DDR400. The base cpu freq is 200MHz (X9) = 1.8GHz.

Whatever you do to the cpu freq - you effectively do to the ram clock. So if you increase the cpu freq 25% (250x9=2.25GHz) you increase the ram clock 25% (250x2=DDR500).

As I understand DDR500, you will have to increase your ram voltage to reach rated speed (250x2).

(Note in the above example that you will have to set your HT to 4X (250=1000MHz)

Now, it so happens that rather bold OCers with a rig such as yours may eventually experiment with a 50% boost . . .

cpu freq X50% (300x9=2.7GHz)
ram clock X50% (166x2=333MHz x 1.5 = DDR498) Dang that worked out nice!

BUT, your HT becomes 3X (300=900MHz). Gosh - hate to leave that on the table. If you are lucky (and patient). . . . .

cpu freq X67% (333x9=2.997GHz)
HT = 3X (333=999MHz)

NOW if my old feable mind remembers correctly, that DFI mobo does not present you with a 'ram clock' but provides you with a 'divider'. So I have intentionally mislead you above with the ram clock (HA HA!) because I want you to think about what you are doing (and I know the 3/4 divider will give you . . . .)

150 X 2 X 1.667% = DDR500

I'm such a mean ol' sum beech :shocked:

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
cpu freq X50% (300x9=2.7GHz)
ram clock X50% (166x2=333MHz x 1.5 = DDR498) Dang that worked out nice!

BUT, your HT becomes 3X (300=900MHz). Gosh - hate to leave that on the table.

I hate to break this to you, booboo, but as long as the total HT speed is above 600 Mhz, there is 0 performance difference between lower & higher HT speeds, at least with Skt. 939 chips.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
cpu freq X50% (300x9=2.7GHz)
ram clock X50% (166x2=333MHz x 1.5 = DDR498) Dang that worked out nice!

BUT, your HT becomes 3X (300=900MHz). Gosh - hate to leave that on the table.

I hate to break this to you, booboo, but as long as the total HT speed is above 600 Mhz, there is 0 performance difference between lower & higher HT speeds, at least with Skt. 939 chips.

But the math was so nice . . .

Thanks for the heads up

 

[ahmadka]

ok thanx for the replies people...

scott, please answer this question which I posted earlier on as well, in reply to the PDF link you gave me (a free posts above):

Hmm... so does that mean that my CPU has a limit on its head ? In terms of temperature and voltage ? I was under the impression that a 50~55*C idle temperature is OK...so based on that, the 65*C limit isnt bothering me much, but the 1.35 V limit.......Is that really limiting the full potential I can reach with my CPU ?

Then there are the other matters:

If you can pass Memtest86+ with no errors while at a 1:1 ratio, then do that. If you get errors then you'll have to back off to some lesser ratio. Before you reduce the ratio you might experimment with a little higher vdimm first, if it's not too high already.

However with AMD's memory controller on the cpu, the main thing is the cpu performance + simply getting the ram to not throw any errors. That's where you get the biggest performance payoff for your effort.

Your main OC payoff on an AMD rig is to get the cpu right, and the ram to not throw any errors, at the lowest voltages, to minimize heat.

So Im thinking that right now, I just want a decent, relatively quicker overclock, so I wont mess with the advanced memory tweaking for the time being...

But since the memory Im using it factory rated at DDR500, shouldnt it be able to run at 250 mhz FSB out of the box ?

-------

Now, onto heyheybooboo's post (nice name btw )...

So far, from what I have read, I understand that the RAM is only dependent on the FSB. That its NOT dependent on my CPU frequency, even though the memory controller is attached to the CPU itself...

From my understanding, the RAM has a relation with the FSB, through the RAM divider concept. That you can set a ratio between the RAM and FSB speeds, so that the FSB can go higher, without overloading the RAM...

So I dont understand the meaning of this statement exactly:

Whatever you do to the cpu freq - you effectively do to the ram clock.

Also, I dont understand how you got the values used in the following expression, expecially the 1.5, what is that ?

ram clock X50% (166x2=333MHz x 1.5 = DDR498)

And this:

150 X 2 X 1.667% = DDR500

could you kind elaborate on that a bit more ...Im still learning...

 

[ahmadka]

Also, please switch to this thread for further OCing discussion, as this one was only meant for finding OC guides. I am NOT spamming, its just that it helps if we stick to the topic itself, especially if you have a habit of keeping references to all the threads you every opened up before ...

Please answer the above questions of mine in the new thread too, and use this thread for only posting more OC guides, which are still more than welcome