Guess how much a doctor's visit cost in China

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Actually my wife is from China. She said a labor worker who makes around $2.00 a day is considered good pay. I find that facinating. I would just go there and buy a whole bunch of building materials and hire a bunch of them and pay them $5.00 a day to build me a mansion bammm...

So... when are you leaving?

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: Dari
Isn't everything cheaper in China? What's the point of this thread? BTW, last I heard, China didn't have a universal healthcare system. That's one reason why the Chinese save so much money, in case a family member gets sick.

What the hell are you talking about neither does the United States.

The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system.[1] The government directly covers a little over one-quarter of the population[8] through health care programs for the elderly, disabled, military service families and veterans, children, and the poor.[9] Federal law ensures public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay.[10] However, this unfunded mandate has contributed to a health care safety net that some analyses say is increasingly strained.[11] Certain types of medical spending and particularly health insurance benefit from significant tax subsidies; in particular, employer-sponsored health insurance is a non-taxable benefit. In all, government spending accounted for 45.1% of total health spending in the U.S. in 2005.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WORLDHEALTH2.png

Think before you speak....

 

[Vic]

Price != cost

Anyway, what do you expect? The per capita GDP in China is $2,460 (ranking it in the bottom 3rd in the world in that category).
So $0.40 might be pennies to you and I, but that's an hour's wages there.
So they're poor AND under a totalitarian regime. But cheap health care woohoo!

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Actually my wife is from China. She said a labor worker who makes around $2.00 a day is considered good pay. I find that facinating. I would just go there and buy a whole bunch of building materials and hire a bunch of them and pay them $5.00 a day to build me a mansion bammm...

So... when are you leaving?

Oh if things get bad enough here I don't mind leaving. I know two languages and am a pretty Open Minded person (unlike most Americans) on accepting other cultures. Most Americans (like yourself) have a pretty poor opinion of other counteries.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Genx87
That sounds great. Now where do I sign up for a totalitarian regime who will gladly trample my human rights whenever possible?

But Ill have 40 cent healthcare right?

Asshole.

The point is "if those jerks can do it, why can't the good ol' USA do it?"

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system.[1] The government directly covers a little over one-quarter of the population[8] through health care programs for the elderly, disabled, military service families and veterans, children, and the poor.[9] Federal law ensures public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay.[10] However, this unfunded mandate has contributed to a health care safety net that some analyses say is increasingly strained.[11] Certain types of medical spending and particularly health insurance benefit from significant tax subsidies; in particular, employer-sponsored health insurance is a non-taxable benefit. In all, government spending accounted for 45.1% of total health spending in the U.S. in 2005.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WORLDHEALTH2.png

Think before you speak....

[/quote]

This is not a true statement. Many of the countries shown on that map as having UHC actually have a "safety net" system closer to what the US has. For example, Ireland, and their Medicare-like system which only covers ~25% of the populace (poor, elderly, etc., like Medicare) just went into place in 2005.

edited for formatting

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Genx87
That sounds great. Now where do I sign up for a totalitarian regime who will gladly trample my human rights whenever possible?

But Ill have 40 cent healthcare right?

Asshole.

The point is "if those jerks can do it, why can't the good ol' USA do it?"

If the rest of the world jumped off a cliff, should the good ol' USA do that, too?

I don't care what the rest of the world is doing. The history of the world proves that the rest of the world sucks. What matters is what works for US, not them.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Actually my wife is from China. She said a labor worker who makes around $2.00 a day is considered good pay. I find that facinating. I would just go there and buy a whole bunch of building materials and hire a bunch of them and pay them $5.00 a day to build me a mansion bammm...

So... when are you leaving?

Oh if things get bad enough here I don't mind leaving. I know two languages and am a pretty Open Minded person (unlike most Americans) on accepting other cultures. Most Americans (like yourself) have a pretty poor opinion of other counteries.

For damned good reason. The government still in place in China has killed roughly 50 million of its own people for purely political reasons since taking power in 1949, and it continues to this day to have one of the worst human rights records in the world.
It is not closed-minded to see that for what it is and hold a poor opinion of it. People are human beings and deserve to be treated as such, not like farm animals to be kept healthy only as long as they work and obey.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Genx87
That sounds great. Now where do I sign up for a totalitarian regime who will gladly trample my human rights whenever possible?

But Ill have 40 cent healthcare right?

Asshole.

The point is "if those jerks can do it, why can't the good ol' USA do it?"

If the rest of the world jumped off a cliff, should the good ol' USA do that, too?

I don't care what the rest of the world is doing. The history of the world proves that the rest of the world sucks. What matters is what works for US, not them.

History proves that the USA sucks just as much as the rest of the world, so get off your high-horse.

There are other countries with health-care systems vastly superior to our own. It's not assimilation or "communist" to do something similar to one or more of them (even if it's only vaguely similar), it's adaptation, it's advancement. It's not evil.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: techs
Most Americans don't realize that most of the civilized world has universal health care, paid maternity leave, more vacation time than the US.

and partly because of that they typically have higher unemployment and lower wages.

just because medical care is universal does not make it free. medical care is a scarce resource and must be rationed in some manner or another.

 

[Moonbeam]

The fact that there is so much money to be made in medicine works against the notion that the medical community will ever work to reduce its cut, it seems to me. And the insurance companies aren't going to work to reduce their cut. And the politicians aren't going to work to reduce their campaign contributions.....

Pretty hopeless it seems to me unless the people start to wield the vote.

But that would require an aroused and awakened people and, well, you know.............

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Genx87
That sounds great. Now where do I sign up for a totalitarian regime who will gladly trample my human rights whenever possible?

But Ill have 40 cent healthcare right?

Asshole.

The point is "if those jerks can do it, why can't the good ol' USA do it?"

If the rest of the world jumped off a cliff, should the good ol' USA do that, too?

I don't care what the rest of the world is doing. The history of the world proves that the rest of the world sucks. What matters is what works for US, not them.

History proves that the USA sucks just as much as the rest of the world, so get off your high-horse.

There are other countries with health-care systems vastly superior to our own. It's not assimilation or "communist" to do something similar to one or more of them (even if it's only vaguely similar), it's adaptation, it's advancement. It's not evil.

I think he's just saying that if we adopt a universal health care system we shouldn't do it because everyone else is doing it.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Genx87
That sounds great. Now where do I sign up for a totalitarian regime who will gladly trample my human rights whenever possible?

But Ill have 40 cent healthcare right?

Asshole.

The point is "if those jerks can do it, why can't the good ol' USA do it?"

If the rest of the world jumped off a cliff, should the good ol' USA do that, too?

I don't care what the rest of the world is doing. The history of the world proves that the rest of the world sucks. What matters is what works for US, not them.

History proves that the USA sucks just as much as the rest of the world, so get off your high-horse.

There are other countries with health-care systems vastly superior to our own. It's not assimilation or "communist" to do something similar to one or more of them (even if it's only vaguely similar), it's adaptation, it's advancement. It's not evil.

Really? Our government has murdered tens of millions of its own citizens in the past 50 years?
It's not "adaptation," "advancement," or "progressive" to admire and seek to copy political systems that are proven to be crueler and more abusive than our own just because you can see the flaws in our own.
That's just self-hate on your part.
Nor is it even "communist" to portray the conditions in other countries as better than what they are. That's just "grass is greener on the other side" idiocy. As already pointed out, $0.40 might be pennies to us but it's a chunk of change to the average Chinese worker. Any similar system we might implement won't cost $0.40 to see a doctor. More like $40.

And if you think China has a health care system "vastly superior to our own," go move there and find out for yourself.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
I think he's just saying that if we adopt a universal health care system we shouldn't do it because everyone else is doing it.

Pretty much. I get irked by people with agendas always trying to portray conditions in other countries as sunshine and roses purely for the sake of their agendas.
I totally agree that we can learn from what other countries have done/are doing, but copying them is not learning anything, we'd just be adding their mistakes to our own.
And China is a country with a fsckload of political mistakes. Not just in recent history but going back hundreds of years.

 

[GRIFFIN1]

We should just close all the hospitals in the country. If you get sick you will either get better or die.

 

[neodyn55]

Ok, I don't think this is true. I was in China too, and $0.40 isn't going to cut it. Chengdu isnt some backwater village either.

$ 0.40 is about 3 Yuan ($1 ~ 7 Yuan)

No way can you get a doctor's visit for 3 Yuan. Think of it this way: it costs about 0.5 ~ 1 Yuan for cotton candy. Are you telling me that a doctor's visit is twice the cost of cotton candy????

Unless you were subsidized by other means - like insurance, I can't imagine how you could have gotten treatment for 3 Yuan.

And btw, it isn't as inexpensive for the Chinese. When I was there, my GF got madly drunk and we had to rush her to the hospital. The total (ambulance + IV + medicine + monitoring) for the night came upto 1000 Yuan (about $150). Which is dirt cheap compared to the US.

Until you realize that the average monthly salary in Beijing (where she took ill) is 3000 Yuan.More perspective: my colleagues (who were Chinese MS graduates, working for an MNC, entry level tech job, pulled about 7000 Yuan, and spend about 2000 on rent).

Sure, Chendu is probably cheaper in medical expenses, but not *that* much cheaper. I didn't spend too much time there, but I know someone who stayed there for two years - maybe I can fact check?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The fact that there is so much money to be made in medicine works against the notion that the medical community will ever work to reduce its cut, it seems to me. And the insurance companies aren't going to work to reduce their cut. And the politicians aren't going to work to reduce their campaign contributions.....

Pretty hopeless it seems to me unless the people start to wield the vote.

But that would require an aroused and awakened people and, well, you know.............

Our problems with health care stem from the dramatic evolution in medical science and treatment in the past 100 or so years. You have to go back and look at the big picture to see how we got to where we are.
In the shortest synopsis possible, medicine was mostly worthless 100 or so years ago. The FDA came about because most people trusted "snake oil" medicines before they trusted doctors. Then antibiotics, vaccines, and radical surgeries developed from Nazi experiments made it possible for medicine to save lives in a kind of all-or-nothing shot. Either you'd be cured or you'd die, either way would be extremely expensive so people got insurance the same way we'd buy car insurance today. Now, medicine has developed to the point where they save more lives than ever, but leave people with chronic ailments and expensive long-term needs where the traditional insurance model just can't work.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Genx87
That sounds great. Now where do I sign up for a totalitarian regime who will gladly trample my human rights whenever possible?

But Ill have 40 cent healthcare right?

Asshole.

The point is "if those jerks can do it, why can't the good ol' USA do it?"

Are you saying that doctors in the US should work for $0.40/hr? You might have a hard time convincing people to go through 8+ years of school for that.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Vic
Now, medicine has developed to the point where they save more lives than ever, but leave people with chronic ailments and expensive long-term needs where the traditional insurance model just can't work.

i usually wonder why people believe that long term cost decreases in medicine can happen merely with a change in how the system is financed. once you cure the easy stuff, then there is hard stuff, then harder stuff, and eventually you run up against the bleeding edge of medicine. each step up you increase cost, not only because the difficulty of treatment/cure goes up, but also because the base over which the fixed costs of developing the treatment/cure are spread becomes more narrow. changing the finance system doesn't fix any part of the underlying reality.

in short, beating death is like beating the hydra. each head you cut off only reveals several more.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: techs
Most Americans don't realize that most of the civilized world has universal health care, paid maternity leave, more vacation time than the US.

yep, and most americans don't realize that most of the civilized world has worse health care, higher unemployment and lower GDP than the US.

 

[freegeeks]

I pay 7 euro to go to a doctor

I live in a third world country that goes by the name of Belgium

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: techs
Most Americans don't realize that most of the civilized world has universal health care, paid maternity leave, more vacation time than the US.

yep, and most americans don't realize that most of the civilized world has worse health care, higher unemployment and lower GDP than the US.

Agreed. Most people want America to be as lazy as the rest of the 35-hour work week world, while piggy backing on those who still want to work hard and actually earn what they get.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Genx87
That sounds great. Now where do I sign up for a totalitarian regime who will gladly trample my human rights whenever possible?

But Ill have 40 cent healthcare right?

dont forget the prescription drug coverage to pay for the bear gallbladder and the buzzard gizzard to treat your sore throat.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
I pay 7 euro to go to a doctor

I live in a third world country that goes by the name of Belgium

good thing we're subsidizing your medicines

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: freegeeks
I pay 7 euro to go to a doctor

I live in a third world country that goes by the name of Belgium

good thing we're subsidizing your medicines

that's just a myth

I can't help it that you guys like to be anally raped by your private insurance companies