GTX580 reviews thread

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Aristotelian

Golden Member
Jan 30, 2010
1,246
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Well, eventually, of course but when? Next Spring, as I joked? :)

Well, my post was an attempt at being optimistic. It (a dual chip card) didn't happen with the 4XX series, but I'm hoping it will happen with the 5XX series so that the 6990 has some competition and, hopefully, won't be as expensive as the 5970 was.
 

Will Robinson

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2009
1,408
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You have to remember that in many cases MLAA is only used when you cant use anything else.

Hey I agree its a cool thing and it does work well on AA IQ but the text problem is important to fix.
 

Scali

Banned
Dec 3, 2004
2,495
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Hey I agree its a cool thing and it does work well on AA IQ but the text problem is important to fix.

You can't fix it. It's just a fullscreen post-processing filter. There's no way of detecting text, HUDs or whatever else. MLAA, like most forms of AA, has its uses and its limitations.
 

cusideabelincoln

Diamond Member
Aug 3, 2008
3,274
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I found this interesting:

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-580-review/7

Cost 5 days per week €1,29
Cost per Month €5,58
Cost per Year €66,98

This is what people make all the fuss about?

To put things in perspective that GTX580 is €550 here in Denmark(and that is actually cheap here)

*I need some fresh air now...toooooo funny*

You obviously don't have a good recollection of what people were making a fuss about.

Hint: Context matters.
 

ShadowOfMyself

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2006
4,227
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Yop...NVIDIA's GPU's beat AMD's in performance...so other points were badly needed in order to save face.

You mean like how Nvidia fanboys kept going on about 3D, CUDA and Physx for 6+ months until Fermi finally launched?

Yeah, sounds about right
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,650
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That's because computerbase did more detailed image analysis then anandtech or [H] or a number of other reputable review sites and worked out that ati had nerfed image quality in their latest drivers to put scores up. Hence they adjusted so the radeons had the same image quality as the geforces.

Their scores are more accurate, not less.

Shame that detailed study wasn't able to show any IQ comparison of games that are less than 4 year old.
 

SolMiester

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2004
5,330
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I did a lot of homework last year on this and found out that in most games, triple monitor doesn't slow down linearly with pixels. What ends up happening in Eyefinity is that I get usually ~45% of the fps that I'd get on one monitor. So if I would have gotten 100 fps at 1680x1050, then at the same settings, I'd expect ~45fps at 5040x1050. (You can see this non-linearity to a lesser extent in reviews where going from 16x10 to 25x16. The fps doesn't scale down linearly with the number of pixels.)

After running the numbers, I figured that my 5850 couldn't easily handle 5760x1200, and my desk would have a hard time fitting 3 x 24" anyway. So I wound up with 3 x 22" monitors for a total unbezelcorrected resolution of 5040x1050.

5140x1050 (bezel corrected), I get ~60-70fps on average in Left 4 Dead 2 and TF2 (highest detail settings, HDR on, etc., plus 4x MSAA) at stock clocks. If I overclock, I can drive up the fps by quite a bit. I haven't tried Eyefinity as much on stuff like Bioshock or Fallout 3, etc. but assuming triple the pixels halves my framerate, I'd still get very good fps in those games.

Best part about Eyefinity is that it is usable outside of games, too, unlike 3D. Useful to multitask and stuff. In fact, I'm watching TV on my third monitor as I type this. :)

Thats better than I expected....you must have a decent sized desk for 3 monitors!!
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
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What really surprises me is that the GF110 is A1 revision. Usually graphics cards get released at A2 revision (or A3 in the case of the problematic GF100).

It looks like they got it right ahead of time, which explains the earlier than expected launch.

The gf104 was A1 also, they must be on a roll.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
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What is wrong with using H.A.W.X. 2 as a benchmark? i used the benchmark built into the full retail game.

Are we to start picking and choosing what benchmarks we don't want to see?
:\

I thought you didnt' like hawx 2 b/c of the bs drm included with it. did you find a way around that?
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
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My, what a large e-thing you have! :biggrin: :thumbsup:

i think that in tri-sli a gtx 580 is MUCH preferable to gtx 480. temps get extremely close to max on non-water gtx 480 tri-sli, and I suspect that noise is quite annoying as well. with the improved power/heat/noise on 580 that switch is a no-brainer imho. besides, if he could afford 3 x gtx 480's already, then dropping another ~ $500 or so to upgrade to tri - 580's shouldn't be too much of a burden.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
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What really surprises me is that the GF110 is A1 revision. Usually graphics cards get released at A2 revision (or A3 in the case of the problematic GF100).

It looks like they got it right ahead of time, which explains the earlier than expected launch.

hahaha

you're kidding, right? they've only been working on this for YEARS now. technically it's probably c1 gf 100 silicon. From a performance standpoint, this card is just a gtx 480 with all the sm's enabled and higher clocks. As another poster mentioned, if it came out a year ago it would have been a win, 7 months ago it would have been pretty good, but now it's just "what gtx 480 should have been". fortunately for nvidia it looks like amd is having some issues of their own now, it's amazing how quickly the tide can turn in the vc&g market.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
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This doesn't surprise me as I've followed HWC. I don't think he's necessarily intentionally biased, but the possibility for subconscious bias is there. Also, HWC fails my quick and dirty check of a site's integrity--which is to see if the site included Far Cry 2 when benching GTS 450. (The test is not an absolute test and returns many false positives, as I'll explain below.)

If no, that site is *definitely* legit. (The short list includes AT, HardOCP, and Bit-Tech. Tech Report too but I despise their inconsistent and sometimes amateurish reviews where they do some pretty weird stuff like only benching at one setting at one resolution, etc.) AT and HardOCP in particular have demonstrated repeatedly that they can't be bought.

If yes, the site could still be legit (e.g., they just happen to test a ton of games, including FC2; or maybe the site is just plain old, like TPU benching some downright ancient games in its suite).

However, FC2 is THE most NV-skewed game and isn't even played much (it didn't rank high in AT and HardOCP reader polls of games that readers wanted tested), and there are so many newer and better games to bench than that, it makes me wonder. FC2 seems to ever get benched when NV releases cards, apparently because it's recommended in the reviewer guide. If a site is so out of touch or plain biased as to include FC2, especially in a small group of games where even one outlier can really skew the average, then there is at least the possibility of bias.

This is especially true if the review site is smaller, which means it has less clout and relies more on the vendor supplying equipment to review in the future. Someone on here talked about this effect in the bike industry, where smaller publications soft-pedal negatives more, whereas the larger publications could afford to be more blunt in their reviews. (Back in the IT realm, HardOCP has popularity in part because can be downright antagonistic in reviews, giving them more street cred and readers.)

It appears however that NV has given up pushing FC2 because I don't see it benched in the GTX580 reviews as much. I think this is because NV knows that Metro 2033 is also skewed but a MUCH better and defensible choice as it is a new game using DX11, and the skew is much more legitimate (highlighting their tessellation strengths). Thus I have no problem with Metro 2033 used as a bench despite the skew.

So I will need to find another quick and dirty test now. Unfortunately there hasn't been a game out yet with the same combination of skew + outdatedness that FC2 had. If there were an outdated game that skewed heavily towards AMD hardware, for instance, that'd be a great test, in my eyes.

maybe you should pick civ 5 since that game clearly favors nvidia. iirc apoppin mentioned that amd also had fc2 on their recommended list so, um...

I was unaware of the hardware canucks issue, but isn't ncix kind of like newegg in canada? I don't see how a connection with them would bias you towards amd, nvidia, or mickey mouse for that matter. now if he was a former disgruntled ati employee with a serious ax to grind that would be quite different.

I like at's reviews because I've seen them criticize ati/amd and nvidia both about the same amount. only thing that I didn't like in their recent reviews was that they used a factory oc gtx 460 in the 6870 review, especially when nobody else who was reputable agreed to do it.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
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Hardware Canucks was founded by the company behind NCIX/NCIXUS/DirectCanada. Their primary reviewer, SKYMTL, was doing reviews for the NCIX forums before being offered the position with HWC. Originally, most of the hardware tested by SKYMTL came from NCIX.

When there's a direct relationship between an e-retailer and review site, impartiality should be questioned as the ultimate goal is to drive hardware sales.

NCIX also has a very personal relationship with NVIDIA and Samsung, and to a lesser extent, Intel.

I take it that you didn't care about this alleged improper relationship when you worked there?

So now most of SKYMTL's hardware is not coming from ncix? is he still allegedly biased? when did his hardware gravy train from ncix stop? Are you trying to say that nvidia, samsung, and intel are using ncix/HC to pimp their products? I ask all these questions because I've seen several reviews at HC that were clearly spot on, even when some others tried to slant the facts one way or the other. I'm not a regular viewer to that site so I don't know how things are run there, but I would definitely put them up near the top of overall reviewer accuracy when comparing current cards.

On this subject, why is it ok for AT, ABT, techreport, hocp, etc etc to get free hardware for reviews but not ok for HC to get it? Ask apoppin whether he's biased. he gets free stuff to review from lots of companies on a regular basis, by your definition he is technically an nvidia/amd/intel/samsung/lg/interwebz shill.
 

netxzero64

Senior member
May 16, 2009
538
0
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You can't fix it. It's just a fullscreen post-processing filter. There's no way of detecting text, HUDs or whatever else. MLAA, like most forms of AA, has its uses and its limitations.
have you seen on your own eyes how MLAA works?

it sucks... i've seen my friend's 6870CF with MLAA... the HUD on crysis looks blurry, so gay...
 

formeremployee

Junior Member
Nov 10, 2010
3
0
0
I take it that you didn't care about this alleged improper relationship when you worked there?

Not really. Its only a review site for computer hardware.

So now most of SKYMTL's hardware is not coming from ncix? is he still allegedly biased? when did his hardware gravy train from ncix stop? Are you trying to say that nvidia, samsung, and intel are using ncix/HC to pimp their products? I ask all these questions because I've seen several reviews at HC that were clearly spot on, even when some others tried to slant the facts one way or the other. I'm not a regular viewer to that site so I don't know how things are run there, but I would definitely put them up near the top of overall reviewer accuracy when comparing current cards.

I am not going to reveal more information about the relationship. My post was addressing your assertion the three sites listed were beyond bias. This isn't the case; as evidenced by HWC and their nascent development into a 'respectable' review site having been founded by Canada's largest online hardware retailer. The bias lies not towards a manufacturer (although they did have earlier/more access to information about the above listed companies' products) but rather in driving hardware sales. The potential of a product receiving a more favorable review that is exclusive to NCIX, or has a larger margin, or is overstocked, etc... are valid concerns for those interested in the objectivity of their reviews. Are the testing methods/results wrong or biased? Probably not. They must be repeatable by other sites or else credibility suffers and the ability to create a particular narrative for a product would suffer along with it.

On this subject, why is it ok for AT, ABT, techreport, hocp, etc etc to get free hardware for reviews but not ok for HC to get it? Ask apoppin whether he's biased. he gets free stuff to review from lots of companies on a regular basis, by your definition he is technically an nvidia/amd/intel/samsung/lg/interwebz shill.

I made no assertion as to the morality of the situation. What constitutes 'right' or 'wrong' is up to the individual to decide in subjective matters.

Reviewers need products to review. This is their 'casus belli' and readers are aware that these reviewers are at the mercy of manufacturers/suppliers to provide the product to test as it would be unreasonable or impossible to purchase every CPU/car/rifle/etc... for each article. For most industries, this is either explicitly (Product X came from Y) or implicitly (First look at Z!) stated. Anandtech has always been an exemplary model of this in the field of computer hardware review.

HWC is taking advantage of the implicit trust gained by readers of more reputable sites. As I said above, there are various reasons to do this and my objective was to bring this different relationship to light.

I apologize to the moderation and any disinterested readers for the thread derailment.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
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I apologize to the moderation and any disinterested readers for the thread derailment.

No apologies necessary, the information is valuable inputs for readers to consider. The question of review-site bias is a persistent topic in this forum and your posts are not out of turn or off-topic imo.
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
5
76
it sucks... i've seen my friend's 6870CF with MLAA... the HUD on crysis looks blurry, so gay...

So gay?.. what does sexual orientation have to do with blurry text?

It actually looks better in GTA IV and Borderlands.. I can live with blurry text.. Jagged edges OTOH.. are a pain to watch. IQ is always subjective, just like my opinion.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
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alienbabeltech.com
I thought you didnt' like hawx 2 b/c of the bs drm included with it. did you find a way around that?
i still don't like having to be connected the Internet to play a SP game
-but then my site is not all about me :p

i wouldn't run H.A.W.X. 2 when it was a stand-alone benchmark (also because you have that DRM in the benchmark also). However, when Ubi sent us the DVD of the full retail game, it became a legitimate benchmark

It is my 24th benchmark game. i get games that i cannot even play; i made sure that our other senior editors got Black Ops, MoH, Civ V and F1 2010 so that we can get reviews out for these games before they get old.

The bias lies not towards a manufacturer (although they did have earlier/more access to information about the above listed companies' products) but rather in driving hardware sales.
What is wrong with driving HW sales? People need to buy HW and a good review should help them make a better decision about what to buy.

Ask apoppin whether he's biased. he gets free stuff to review from lots of companies on a regular basis, by your definition he is technically an nvidia/amd/intel/samsung/lg/interwebz shill.
Getting "free stuff" from many companies should make one less biased. The thing you have to remember is that i only promise to be "fair" to my vendors; my first responsibility is to our readers.

About the "free" thing .. i put well over 120 hours into that GTX 580 review; at $5 an hour, working another job, i could just buy one myself. It is not "working for HW", i assure you. If i didn't LOVE my work, i simply couldn't do it.
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
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Civ V is a popular game, new, etc. so it doesn't fit into the classification I described, regardless of skew.

No, Apoppin said it was validated. Big difference. Ask yourself this: how many HD68xx reviews benched FC2? Like zero to one. That should tell you something about whether or not AMD recommended benching it or not.

maybe you should pick civ 5 since that game clearly favors nvidia. iirc apoppin mentioned that amd also had fc2 on their recommended list so, um...

I was unaware of the hardware canucks issue, but isn't ncix kind of like newegg in canada? I don't see how a connection with them would bias you towards amd, nvidia, or mickey mouse for that matter. now if he was a former disgruntled ati employee with a serious ax to grind that would be quite different.

I like at's reviews because I've seen them criticize ati/amd and nvidia both about the same amount. only thing that I didn't like in their recent reviews was that they used a factory oc gtx 460 in the 6870 review, especially when nobody else who was reputable agreed to do it.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
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alienbabeltech.com
Are you still stuck on FC 2?

It is not a terribly popular game any longer and if a site only reviews 6-10 games, it is not likely to make that list because of all the new games .. not for any other reason. Back in the day, it made HardOCP's list and the other sites that have dropped it due to it getting older; especially if your site only reviews new games.

i think you should replace FC 2 with H.A.W.X. 2 on your imaginary "list" - for now - since AMD really doesn't want us to review it until they get a new driver out for it .. but then i will do a short article on the game when that happens and show the improvement; and if they get it out this week, i will add the new results to my GTX 580 review. Fair is fair
:)

Anyway, i got to get back to work .. i still haven't finished proofing my article. :(
 
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