GTX460 a green turd? or a wolf in sheeps clothing?

[Madcatatlas]

I thought this was too hilarious of a news/rumor headline to take away from the Hardocp site by not checking it there., so for the complete story, go to the link

heres a cutout from that link

In mid-July we will be seeing a "460" or "GF104" GPU from NVIDIA. It should MSRP around $230 and have very good overclocking potential. This will effectively kill the 465 for any of our readers, if it has not already committed silicon suicide on its own.

- Kyle


http://hardocp.com/news/2010/06/09/nvidias_immediate_roadmap_rumors

 

[WelshBloke]

Soooooooooooooooo that will be Kyle on the blacklist then

 

[thilanliyan]

Something between a GTX470 and the 465 at around $250 would be great (assuming the 465 goes down closer to $215 where I think it should be).

 

[Daedalus685]

If it costs $230 it is very likely to perform very close to 80% of a 465. I would be absolutely floored if the thing out performs a part they priced $50 more than it only a couple of months after said part released.

It seems logical to assume they will not wow us with a drastically different price/performance part. Hopefully it is far cooler and less power hungry than the gf100 but I can't see it out performing any part based on the gf100. Hopefully I am proven wrong... We will see.

I except the 460 to be a touch slower than the 5830... I won't be getting my hopes up

 

[happy medium]

If it costs $230 it is very likely to perform very close to 80% of a 465. I would be absolutely floored if the thing out performs a part they priced $50 more than it only a couple of months after said part released.

It seems logical to assume they will not wow us with a drastically different price/performance part. Hopefully it is far cooler and less power hungry than the gf100 but I can't see it out performing any part based on the gf100. Hopefully I am proven wrong... We will see.

I except the 460 to be a touch slower than the 5830... I won't be getting my hopes up

So the gtx 465 is 15% faster then a 5830?

Is this website anti - ATI? Review done May 31st
They have the gtx 465 even with the 5850.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=928&type=expert&pid=4

The games they used are some of the same Anand used and they look almost identical?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3745/nvidias-geforce-gtx-465/11

Conclusion from the Anand review..

Quote"

"Unless you’re going to be gaming with a 30” LCD, NVIDIA has done an appropriate job of pricing the GTX 465 on a pure performance basis. For $280 you can have a GTX 465, or for 8% more you can have a card that performs 8% faster (the 5850). If that’s all you care about, stop here and figure out how much you wish to spend and you’ll be able to figure out which card you want."

 

[Daedalus685]

So the gtx 465 is 15% faster then a 5830?

Is this website anti - ATI? Review done May 31st
They have the gtx 465 even with the 5850.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=928&type=expert&pid=4

It will cost 80% of the 465.. why is it unreasonable to assume it performs as such?

What on earth does that have to do with anti ati or any such thing? I only mentioned the 5830 as it is in the price point they seem to be targeting with the 460...

Where on earth did 15% faster than a 5830 come from for the 465??? I'm lost... I said it is likely to perform to its price which is 80% of the 465... Yet that I expect it to perform closer to a 5830.

As for that review you linked.. I will not comment on their credibility, but will say that the vast majority of reviews around seem to show the 5850 coming out on top far more often than not.

 

[v8envy]

If it performs 80% of the 465 it'll be squarely in the 5770 camp. $220 for that? Pass.

 

[happy medium]

It will cost 80% of the 465.. why is it unreasonable to assume it performs as such?

What on earth does that have to do with anti ati or any such thing? I only mentioned the 5830 as it is in the price point they seem to be targeting with the 460...

Where on earth did 15% faster than a 5830 come from for the 465??? I'm lost... I said it is likely to perform to its price which is 80% of the 465... Yet that I expect it to perform closer to a 5830.

As for that review you linked.. I will not comment on their credibility, but will say that the vast majority of reviews around seem to show the 5850 coming out on top far more often than not.

I was not starting an arguement I was just asking.

 

[happy medium]

I was not starting an arguement I was just asking.

In case you missed it..

Conclusion from the Anand review..

Quote"

"Unless you’re going to be gaming with a 30” LCD, NVIDIA has done an appropriate job of pricing the GTX 465 on a pure performance basis. For $280 you can have a GTX 465, or for 8% more you can have a card that performs 8% faster (the 5850). If that’s all you care about, stop here and figure out how much you wish to spend and you’ll be able to figure out which card you want."

Anand must be Anti- ATI too?

Whats wrong with this card? Turd? Naaa.

 

[Daedalus685]

I was not starting an arguement I was just asking.

But you asked a totally unrelated question... I have no idea how the 5830 stacks up to the 465 (though it probably is 15% some of the time.. other times they are equal, other times the both explode...) only that it is unreasonable to expect much more than current price/performance.

Though since this is a mainstream part it is likely to carry better price/performance than the higher end.. lets say 85% of the 465 for 80% of the cost? I just don't see too many people being floored by it, though I'm sure it will be a competitive part.

 

[Daedalus685]

In case you missed it..

Conclusion from the Anand review..

Quote"

"Unless you’re going to be gaming with a 30” LCD, NVIDIA has done an appropriate job of pricing the GTX 465 on a pure performance basis. For $280 you can have a GTX 465, or for 8% more you can have a card that performs 8% faster (the 5850). If that’s all you care about, stop here and figure out how much you wish to spend and you’ll be able to figure out which card you want."

Anand must be Anti- ATI too?

Whats wrong with this card? Turd? Naaa.

Kyle is almost exclusively concerned about gaming at high resolution and grades cards on the highest playable settings they can drive. He is well within his right to consider a card that does not stack up at those resolutions a turd.

Though for low resolution gaming it is certainly not total crap.. just more of the same.

And what the heck is it with mentioning anti ATI??? Who mentioned ATI other than myself claiming it will likely compete with the 5830...?

 

[bunnyfubbles]

In case you missed it..

Conclusion from the Anand review..

Quote"

"Unless you’re going to be gaming with a 30” LCD, NVIDIA has done an appropriate job of pricing the GTX 465 on a pure performance basis. For $280 you can have a GTX 465, or for 8% more you can have a card that performs 8% faster (the 5850). If that’s all you care about, stop here and figure out how much you wish to spend and you’ll be able to figure out which card you want."

Anand must be Anti- ATI too?

Whats wrong with this card? Turd? Naaa.

and your bias continues to show, you left out this part:

"However if we continue on, there’s an ugly truth to face: the GTX 465 delivers the GTX 470’s power and noise characteristics, but not the GTX 470’s performance. This is a critical difference because while we could make a case for the GTX 470 versus the 5850 based on the former’s superior performance, now we’re looking at a card that is slower than a 5850 but worse in every basic metric except price. The GTX 465 is much louder and much more power hungry than the Radeon 5850 all while being slower – and all you save is $20."

The GTX465 is a major dud. Not as bad as the 5830, but its up there.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

And what the heck is it with mentioning anti ATI??? Who mentioned ATI other than myself claiming it will likely compete with the 5830...?

Lately he's had an agenda to try and spin nVidia in a positive light no matter what. Maybe the real happy medium sold his account to Rollo.

 

[edplayer]

If it performs 80% of the 465 it'll be squarely in the 5770 camp. $220 for that? Pass.

exactly

You can find 5770 for $160 or less almost all the time. Using bing cashback you can pick them up for as low as $135 at times, even the double lifetime warranty XFX cards.

 

[PingviN]

Nvidia can more or less just sit this one out and pray to the gods that their next series will compete better with the Southern Island.
And not be 6 months late.
And not be a power hog.
And not fail price/performance.

If the GTX460 lands in 5770 territory, it better be priced accordingly or it will be a green turd.

Fermi is just not attractive. Sure, CUDA will be good 'n' all (in a couple of years), but today it's hardly a real factor, with supported application being meagre at best.

 

[GaiaHunter]

The 465 is pretty much 5830 level

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-465-sli-review/

And nobody can call this guy anti-nvidia or pro-ati when he writes

Final words and conclusion

With the release of the GeForce GTX 465, NVIDIA brings an interesting product to the market. It has a reasonable enough TDP, the noise levels are as normal as can be and GPU temperatures are well under control. This is exactly what we would have liked to see with the GTX 480, that's for sure.

To achieve these values NVIDIA had to keep the clock frequency low and next to that, they disabled more clusters of shader processors. The end result is a GPU with 352 activated shader processors, a product that is competing with the Radeon HD 5830 mostly ... and you know what ? That actually poses an concern. I was just checking prices here in the Netherlands and you can pickup the R5830 for 210 EUR these days. Now we expect the GeForce GTX 465 to settle at roughly 269-289 EUR and that makes the difference money wise really big. The EURO dropping like a stone really isn't helping NVIDIA here either.

It becomes even more trivial though as at this very moment ATI could (if they wanted to) drop the price even lower, and NVIDIA definitely can not do the same at this point in time. Both products are fairly equal when it comes to features and performance though with the new 256 series drivers, we do see the GTX 400 series jumping up in overall performance proving that, as always, NVIDIA's drivers typically add more performance when time passes. Realistically though at 279 EUR we feel the GTX 465 should compete with a R5850, and that's just not happening.

 

[Scali]

And nobody can call this guy anti-nvidia or pro-ati when he writes

What's it with people anway, having to put anyone in a 'camp' for everything they say? Where does that retarded culture come from? And why is it supported by so many?
Can't you just be independent and have an honest unbiased opinion when you think product A is better than product B, after reviewing them?

Everything just boils down to black and white, good and evil, yes and no, doesn't it? That's one-dimensional thinking.

I'm getting pretty tired of every 'tech' discussion boiling down to "Brand X is better than brand Y". The world doesn't work that way guys, wake up and broaden your horizon.

 

[Cookie Monster]

edit - Back on topic. Its going to be interesting to see if any of the shortcomings that GF100 had will be fixed with GF104. Also it will be interesting to see which parts of the architecture didn't make the cut.

 

[Qbah]

I'm gonna go with turd. Not much faster than a HD5770 (if even that) for over $200? No thanks.

Ohh and "good job" with the off-topic, guys. Near-racist generalization and "you suck. no you suck" will surely keep the thread open... *sigh*

 

[allisolm]

Let's keep the P&N commets in P&N. If anyone has to come back and clean this thread up again heads will roll, I tell you! Roll! Well, at least it will get locked.

As Qbah said "Ohh and "good job" with the off-topic, guys. Near-racist generalization and "you suck. no you suck" will surely keep the thread open... *sigh*"

Truer words and all that.

Admin allisolm

 

[Dark Shroud]

My vote is for turd. The 5770 is a midrange monster, lower power usage, quiet, cheap, & multi-moniter support. It's going to be very hard for Nvidia to fight ATI on this. Especially when Southern Islands is going out in a few months.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Can't you just be independent and have an honest unbiased opinion when you think product A is better than product B, after reviewing them?

(...)

I'm getting pretty tired of every 'tech' discussion boiling down to "Brand X is better than brand Y".

See the above 2 statements.

After you review a product of 2 brands that are competing and conclude 1 product is better than the other you are concluding that Brand x is better than Brand Y at that particular point that both brands are competing, aren't you?

And I was saying he clearly wasn't biased against NVIDIA, as while many other reviewers are concerned by heat and power, he isn't, so his numbers that put 5830 on parity with GTX 465 aren't "manipulated" to make the 5830 look better.

And by the way any reason you chose my quote, which just followed the trend started by Happy Medium, instead of his to do your declaration?

 

[Scali]

After you review a product of 2 brands that are competing and conclude 1 product is better than the other you are concluding that Brand x is better than Brand Y at that particular point that both brands are competing, aren't you?

Not directly.
You are concluding that product A (of brand X) is better than product B (of brand Y).
That's not saying brand X is better than brand Y, because that would be a generalization of all products, but you haven't tested all products.
Aside from that, the brand is not a relevant factor, so I don't see why you would even want to arrive at a conclusion of which brand is better.
You don't buy a brand, you buy a product.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Most likely the same old story: Acceptable performance but too hot, too expensive.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Not directly.
You are concluding that product A (of brand X) is better than product B (of brand Y).
That's not saying brand X is better than brand Y, because that would be a generalization of all products, but you haven't tested all products.
Aside from that, the brand is not a relevant factor, so I don't see why you would even want to arrive at a conclusion of which brand is better.
You don't buy a brand, you buy a product.

I'm not trying to. Additionally I said at that bracket of the market.

Now I quoted you because you came to the conclusion that claiming a site surely isn't biased against some brand means it is a way of making the world black and white.

My question was, why claiming a site isn't anti-ati is ok, not triggering a response from you, if that means people can present data to show that the 465 is great, even being faster than a 5850, but if you claim a site like guru3d isn't biased (or are you saying guru3d is pro-ATI and anti-NVIDIA?) and show their results which presents the 465 being slower than the 5850 and being on par with the 5830, prompts you to question why are all threads about brand vs brand and questioning the people culture (that makes them compare different competing products from different brands), while you repetitively do so, by comparing GPGPU from NVIDIA to AMD?