GTX 770 vs HD 7970 Ghz (R9 280X) Ideal memory bandwidth

[Contiusa]

Hi guys, this is my first post here and I have a doubt regarding memory bandwidth. I had no idea that the GTX 680 went down to 256 bits after the 384 bits of GTX 580, and I have seen a lot of people raging about it on the internet. I was sold to buy a GTX 770 Lightning, for its temps and performance, but the tests never push the limits of AA and supersampling. But AnandTech has a test showing the memory bus bottleneck of the GTX 770 at 2560X1440 with everything cranked up.

Does it happen at 2560X1080 too? Or 1920X1080? I am a supersampling lover, so I intent to push the limits of the card. Now I am afraid to have to make some compromises with the GTX 770. I don’t care that the GTX is more expensive, I just wanted a well built card with low temps and noise levels, and the Lightning seems to excel in that.

So, is it better to go for the R9 280X and have more head room in the memory bus department or the GTX 770 won’t even scratch the bus limit at 2560X1080? Not forgetting that I want to take it to the limit with AA and supersampling.

I was supposed to have bought the GTX 770 already, but I halted the purchase to know more about it. On a side note, since this is a bottleneck issue, and people care dearly about it, why no site ever done a comprehensive test on this regard? I have been searching the internet for two days and I can’t find a place that indicates how much memory bandwidth is required for the newest games at highest levels of graphics.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

-----edit-----
corrected some resolution values

 

[Contiusa]

My specs:

i7-3770K
Z77X-D3H
8GB RAM
PSU AX850
HD 6870
Monitor 1920X1080 (intend to buy a future 2560X1080)

And I play flight sims (ROF/Il-2)

 

[flexy]

I have a hard time believing that a 770 (!) can show a memory bottleneck at 1560, this is even lower than my 1680 resolution. Even with my 660 TI w/ 192bit BUS it is extremely difficult to get it that far as that memory b/w comes into play..UNLESS I would say run 8xAA or anything the like... honestly, I dont think that with a 770 memory b/w is an issue

 

[Teizo]

Well built and low noise? Why on earth bother with the GTX 770 when the Asus Direct CU 280X is well built, has low noise (due to low temps), performs better or as good as....and is $140 cheaper?

/It should be available this Friday.

 

[Deders]

Not sure how it affects higher resolutions but I was suprised at how little a performance impact 32xCSAA made in certain games. Arkham City for one still gives me 60FPS average with PhysX and 32xCSAA. It also seems to quite happily manage 2xSSAA (which doubles the internal resolution) in Metro: Last light, Splinter Cell and Tomb Raider.

My res is 1680x1050 with a 670 powered by an i5 750. Overclocking the memory from 6GHz to nearly 7 gives a massive performance boost, so yeah I think Keplar could benefir from wider bus.

 

[Contiusa]

I have a hard time believing that a 770 (!) can show a memory bottleneck at 1560, this is even lower than my 1680 resolution. Even with my 660 TI w/ 192bit BUS it is extremely difficult to get it that far as that memory b/w comes into play..UNLESS I would say run 8xAA or anything the like... honestly, I dont think that with a 770 memory b/w is an issue

I hope so. I did the math in a couple games and both the GTX 780 and the 7970GE gain and loose 30% in 1920X1080 and 2560X1440, but the GTX 770 gain and looses 40%, disregarding the frame rate for all of them, what matters is the percentage. This made me think that the 10% difference is due to memory bus bottleneck, since the 7970GE performs equally to the 770 but behaves like the 780 in switching the resolution, which also has 385 bits of bus.

And AnadTech is clear to say that the extra bus of the 770 plays a decisive role to gain some advantage against the 680. With all that in mind, the bus bottleneck worries me, really, and people comment about it, the same they comment that Nvidia should get over the 2GB for top VGAs.

But I bought the GTX 770 already in a vote of confidence. Let’s see how it pans out.

 

[Deders]

I was led to believe that Nvidia's memory managment in general was more efficient, so less data needed to be transferred and stored in the memory.

 

[Contiusa]

Well built and low noise? Why on earth bother with the GTX 770 when the Asus Direct CU 280X is well built, has low noise (due to low temps), performs better or as good as....and is $140 cheaper?

/It should be available this Friday.

The GTX 770 Lightning is one of a kind. The ASUS is cool, but IMHO it doesn’t come close to the level of detail and care that they put into the MSI. And I had a GTX 460 before. The Radeon is fine, but from my past experience Nvidia has a better built taking into consideration architecture, material and drives. I can’t see a $ 140 cheaper card beating that. But Radeon is starting to dominate the gaming scene with the consoles, so it might be my last Nvidia for the coming years.

Regarding the performance, it is kind of equal, depending on the game. I paid the extra cash for the built of Nvidia and MSI, and it is unanimity in ROF, so, let’s see if I get lucky

 

[Teizo]

The GTX 770 Lightning is one of a kind. The ASUS is cool, but IMHO it doesn’t come close to the level of detail and care that they put into the MSI. And I had a GTX 460 before. The Radeon is fine, but from my past experience Nvidia has a better built taking into consideration architecture, material and drives. I can’t see a $ 140 cheaper card beating that. But Radeon is starting to dominate the gaming scene with the consoles, so it might be my last Nvidia for the coming years.

Regarding the performance, it is kind of equal, depending on the game. I paid the extra cash for the built of Nvidia and MSI, and it is unanimity in ROF, so, let’s see if I get lucky

Question. Do you think a $1500 iMac is better than an $1000 PC manufactured from the same factory?

It's up to you...get what you want. I'm a bit partial to Nvidia myself as well, but there is little doubt the R9 280X whipes butt with the 770. If you want an uber model R9 280X...then go for the ASUS R9 280X Matrix. It's three slots and costs a little more, but it is still waayy less than the 770 Lightening and has more memory as well.

 

[wand3r3r]

The GTX 770 Lightning is one of a kind. The ASUS is cool, but IMHO it doesn’t come close to the level of detail and care that they put into the MSI. And I had a GTX 460 before. The Radeon is fine, but from my past experience Nvidia has a better built taking into consideration architecture, material and drives. I can’t see a $ 140 cheaper card beating that. But Radeon is starting to dominate the gaming scene with the consoles, so it might be my last Nvidia for the coming years.

Regarding the performance, it is kind of equal, depending on the game. I paid the extra cash for the built of Nvidia and MSI, and it is unanimity in ROF, so, let’s see if I get lucky

The 770 reference model is (presumably) the same cheaped out garbage like the 670/680 with just the bare minimum to function. MSI Lightnings and Gaming editions are great, but that is MSI's doing not Nvidias.

The 280x will likely have a lightning, or if not a gaming edition and will be released Friday.

Even reviewers say the 770 needs a massive price drop, it's no better than the 280x (within a few %) and only has 2GB of ram etc.

http://techreport.com/review/25466/amd-radeon-r9-280x-and-270x-graphics-cards/11

The new Radeon R9 cards match up very well against the competition from Nvidia, too, mostly because they're priced quite aggressively—especially the 280X. Nvidia needs to lop 50 bucks off the price of the GTX 760 and 100 bucks off the GTX 770 in order to remain competitive. Even then, the R9 280X looks to be slightly faster than the GeForce GTX 770.

If I were you I'd be returning that overpriced card.

The other nail in the 770's coffin is that the R9 290 is coming within a week or so too and if it's under $500 (suspect $450 myself) it should mop the floor with that 770.

 

[Teizo]

The 280x will likely have a lightning, or if not a gaming edition and will be released Friday.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127759

There is a R9 270X Hawk, but no 280X Hawk. I imagine the Lightening Editions from MSI will be relegated to the 290s.

 

[Contiusa]

The 770 reference model is (presumably) the same cheaped out garbage like the 670/680 with just the bare minimum to function. MSI Lightnings and Gaming editions are great, but that is MSI's doing not Nvidias.

The 280x will likely have a lightning, or if not a gaming edition and will be released Friday.

Even reviewers say the 770 needs a massive price drop, it's no better than the 280x (within a few %) and only has 2GB of ram etc.

http://techreport.com/review/25466/amd-radeon-r9-280x-and-270x-graphics-cards/11

If I were you I'd be returning that overpriced card.

The other nail in the 770's coffin is that the R9 290 is coming within a week or so too and if it's under $500 (suspect $450 myself) it should mop the floor with that 770.

The R9 290X was seen to cost $720, so I doubt that the R9 290 will cost $450. But the question is the memory bus, not personal preferences, and the 7970GE was always in line with the GTX 770, so we are talking preferences, not different brackets. And I still consider the Lightning a better built than any other that I have seen so far, but I only said that to explain that the extra cash is not an issue for me. I just didn't want to buy Radeon this time.

Is there any test that measures the memory transfer rate of actual games? Why the sites don't mention it, since it made a difference for the 770 over the 680?

 

[wand3r3r]

The R9 290X was seen to cost $720, so I doubt that the R9 290 will cost $450. But the question is the memory bus, not personal preferences, and the 7970GE was always in line with the GTX 770, so we are talking preferences, not different brackets. And I still consider the Lightning a better built than any other that I have seen so far, but I only said that to explain that the extra cash is not an issue for me. I just didn't want to buy Radeon this time.

Is there any test that measures the memory transfer rate of actual games? Why the sites don't mention it, since it made a difference for the 770 over the 680?

Ok, that's your decision.

Anyways 280x hawk is coming according to them and MSI said 519e as a placeholder for the 290.
http://videocardz.com/46558/amd-radeon-r9-290x-r9-290-european-pricing-unveiled

R9 290x $590
http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop...110040015014_BTF3729P.shtml&order_id=!ORDERID

 

[Contiusa]

Ok, that's your decision.

Anyways 280x hawk is coming according to them and MSI said 519e as a placeholder for the 290.
http://videocardz.com/46558/amd-radeon-r9-290x-r9-290-european-pricing-unveiled

270 Euros for the Radeon R9 280X Gaming edition is 380 dollars, very close to the 400 dollars of the GTX 770 Gaming edition, so I don’t see where the big fuss is. In fact, it just reassured my decision even further.

So… I appreciate if anyone can help me to solve the memory bus query.

 

[Teizo]

Ok, that's your decision.

Anyways 280x hawk is coming according to them and MSI said 519e as a placeholder for the 290.
http://videocardz.com/46558/amd-radeon-r9-290x-r9-290-european-pricing-unveiled

R9 290x $590
http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop...110040015014_BTF3729P.shtml&order_id=!ORDERID

It's a 270X Hawk, not a 280X Hawk

 

[wand3r3r]

270 Euros for the Radeon R9 280X Gaming edition is 380 dollars, very close to the 400 dollars of the GTX 770 Gaming edition, so I don’t see where the big fuss is. In fact, it just reassured my decision even further.

So… I appreciate if anyone can help me to solve the memory bus query.

The prices are almost 1:1 €/$. There's a 20%+ tax included in everything you buy in Europe. The article knows about that and estimates the 519€ card will be around $500. They aren't direct exchange rates. Anyways since you apparently don't care about $ or value that shouldn't matter.

Anyways I'm a big MSI and lightning fan and I've had 680 lightning when it was better aligned in price/performance and not voltage neutered but when there's such a big price premium for the 770 it's ridiculous. (Therefore my posts)

 

[Contiusa]

The prices are almost 1:1 €/$. There's a 20%+ tax included in everything you buy in Europe. The article knows about that and estimates the 519€ card will be around $500. They aren't direct exchange rates. Anyways since you apparently don't care about $ or value that shouldn't matter.

Anyways I'm a big MSI and lightning fan and I've had 680 lightning when it was better aligned in price/performance and not voltage neutered but when there's such a big price premium for the 770 it's ridiculous. (Therefore my posts)

The GTX 770 is the replacement of the GTX 670, which was launched at $ 399 too, so, considering that it is a better tweaked GTX 680, which costed $ 499, I can't complain about the price at all. In fact, when it was launched I considered it a bargain.

 

[tential]

If you're looking at the GTX 770 Lightning you might as well start looking at the R9 290. 50 dollars more and will destroy it in performance value once overclocked.

 

[Teizo]

The GTX 770 is the replacement of the GTX 670, which was launched at $ 399 too, so, considering that it is a better tweaked GTX 680, which costed $ 499, I can't complain about the price at all. In fact, when it was launched I considered it a bargain.

Well, when the 7970GE launched, it was $500. Now it is $300 in the form of the R9 280X.

THAT is a real bargain.

 

[Contiusa]

Well, when the 7970GE launched, it was $500. Now it is $300 in the form of the R9 280X.

THAT is a real bargain.

Considering that the R9 280X is exactly the same 7970GE and cost $ 20 dollars less than the GTX 770, which is an improvement of the GTX 680, I don't see a difference. I consider it again a matter of preference.

 

[Erenhardt]

Considering that the R9 280X is exactly the same 7970GE and cost $ 20 dollars less than the GTX 770, which is an improvement of the GTX 680, I don't see a difference. I consider it again a matter of preference.

Well...770 is basically just overclocked 680. You either are getting good deal on 770 or terrible one on 7970, because there is $100 difference between those cards everywhere.

7970 are 250EUR
770 are 320EUR

If you just want to spend more money then just buy me an upgrade or send some for charity.

 

[wand3r3r]

Considering that the R9 280X is exactly the same 7970GE and cost $ 20 dollars less than the GTX 770, which is an improvement of the GTX 680, I don't see a difference. I consider it again a matter of preference.

Where is the 770 $20 more than the 280x? You already said you are paying $140 more for the 770 lightning (which is $450 at the egg).

The MSRP is $300 for the 280x and $400 for the 770 2GB. They are close enough in raw fps so that you cannot see a difference on average.

The 280x == 7970 GHz
The 770 == 680 + a few percent. It's not a 670 rebrand, it's a 680 with a touch faster memory.
The 680 was slower than the 7970 GHz by a few percent and the 770 makes up for it.

 

[Contiusa]

Where is the 770 $20 more than the 280x? You already said you are paying $140 more for the 770 lightning (which is $450 at the egg).

The MSRP is $300 for the 280x and $400 for the 770 2GB. They are close enough in raw fps so that you cannot see a difference on average.

The 280x == 7970 GHz
The 770 == 680 + a few percent. It's not a 670 rebrand, it's a 680 with a touch faster memory.
The 680 was slower than the 7970 GHz by a few percent and the 770 makes up for it.

You gave me the links for the price of the MSI R9 280X Gaming Edition, which will cost U$ 380, while the GTX 770 Gaming Edition costs around U$ 399 since day one. If you make the math, it is 20 dollars difference. Just look for your own post.

Someone said here that the difference is U$ 140 dollars, not me. And the 7970 is not the same as 7970GE. In price too.

Enough of fanboyism. They will reach the shelves at the same bracket, give or take, and I wanted Nvidia. If anyone has anything to say about the memory bus, fine, if not, I am not replying anymore; I have other things to do.

 

[wilds]

Yeah, the $20 price difference makes the decision based on brand choice. The GTX 770 and R9 280X are very similar in performance. We'll have to see if that extra 1GB of memory in the 280X makes a difference in the long run.

 

[Teizo]

Enough of fanboyism. They will reach the shelves at the same bracket, give or take, and I wanted Nvidia. If anyone has anything to say about the memory bus, fine, if not, I am not replying anymore; I have other things to do.

The prices here in the US are way different. Perhaps you should have made where you live and the prices there clear, because recommending you a card that is $140 cheaper with the same performance is about as far away from fanboyism as it gets.