GTX 470/460 questions/branding

Aznattic

Junior Member
Aug 28, 2010
9
0
0
Hello,

I have done some research before posting this, but i guess i don't have all my bases covered yet.

The GTX 470 i already know produces more heat and uses more power, but is still relatively a bit faster than the GTX 460. The only reason why i am leaning towards the 470 is because of the price (newegg has a gigabyte for $269 plus $20 mail in rebate) which is barely more than a GTX 460 which i see hover around $210-$240. Despite the price difference, is there still a valid reason why i should get the GTX460 over the 470? I thought the prices for the 470 were high still until today which is what changed my mind to the 470. I don't game nearly as often as i do, but i plan on gaming somewhat again (at 1920x1200) and use Photoshop CS4/CS5.

Another question is have they fixed the issue with using dual monitors on the 470 (high idle temps and power usage) and does this issue plague the GTX460? This is probably my biggest concern.

Are they planning to phase out the GTX470 or do some upgrade to this line? I ask because the price drops on these make me wonder. I know ATI has their Island whatever line up coming later this year, but I have waited and waited and waited forever to upgrade.

What about overclocking? I read the 460 overclocks quite well, but i also read the 470 can as well.

My last question is brands. I have been using an EVGA 7800GT for nearly 5 years with no issues at all. There are also a lot of other players now that i see. Is there certain brands anyone could recommend? My plan is to purchase the GIGABYTE GV-N470D5-13I-B since it is the cheapest 470 model i can find. If not, can you recommend me a good 470 or 460 card?

Thanks for reading.
 

superccs

Senior member
Dec 29, 2004
999
0
0
Gigabyte has really good customer support/RMA. They also make heavily OC'able card. I had both an factory OC'ed 8800GT and hd4850, and both started out with a really high OC and would also OC like mad.

I just picked up an OC'ed MSI 460 mainly because I liked the $200 price point and the lean but powerful nature of the 460 and the non-reference HSF. I would suggest the 5850 at the higher price point though due to greater efficiencies of that chip vs the 470.
 

coffeejunkee

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2010
1,153
0
0
Haven't heard anything about the dual monitor issue being fixed. But I don't hear everything. Actually, I think Ati cards have the same problem (someone pls correct me if it has been fixed).

Price might be nearly the same for 460 and 470 now. But if you plan on using it as long as your 7800gt the 470 will cost you a lot more in the end.

Keep in mind Photoshop uses gpu acceleration only for stuff like zooming and moving around images. Actual calculations are still done on the cpu. 3rd party plugins could use cuda though. Only Premiere and After Effects use cuda for calculations. Edit: ok, forget ae, it doesn't use cuda either, same as ps. And encoding in premiere is still done using cpu. Cuda does help the Mercury playback machine a lot though.

EVGA and Gigabyte both have my recommendation.
 
Last edited:

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,116
1,266
126
The 4XX series still do not downvolt and only mildly downclock the core clock with dual monitors, so idle temps are fairly high. I would set up a custom fan profile.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
If you plan to run dual monitors, then ATI is the way to go. 470 will for sure idle in the 60s or 70s with dual monitors. This also means higher fan speed and additional noise in idle. Since you are going to be using the system for photoshop and not just gaming, I'd pick the quieter 460.

Tiger Direct has MSI N460GTX Cyclone GeForce GTX 460 1GB GDDR5 Video Card for $210 and free shipping after applying coupon code FYL5221.

Alternatively, if you do want the 470, for your purposes, I'd suggest one with an aftermarket cooler already: Palit 470 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-073-_-Product

If all you did was gaming and single monitor, then 470 would have been better. I would probably choose the MSI 460 and overclock it.
 

Aznattic

Junior Member
Aug 28, 2010
9
0
0
So there isn't a fix yet for the 470 and the 460 has the same problem with dual monitors as well? Bummer.

Originally i was going to go with the 5850 (early this year) but then once the 470 and 480 dropped my mind changed. Support for extras in photoshop is a plus. I plan on using Premeire as well once i get past the learning curve. I don't think ATI's 5800 series support these features, even if it is only for zooming in and for help loading multiple pictures it still is a huge pro for me.

If the price for the 470 wasn't so different i would of purchased the 460 already. Just a $60 difference though makes it more favorable (for me) to go with the more powerful card. $20 MIR makes it a $40 difference. Noise isn't an issue since i already have louder fans and scsi drives running. Temperatures though from a 470 could tear my room up though :(. I see the 460 overclocked high makes power consumption close to the 470 anyways. Guess i still haven't made up my mind.
 

Dark Shroud

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2010
1,576
1
0
Rumor has it Adobe will be switching from CUDA to OpenCL in their next version.

Also ATI 6000 series will be launching shortly and the 5000 series cards are coming down in price a little bit each week now.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
There is another rather unorthodox option. Grab a GT210 with HDMI/DVI, passively cooled for $20 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-454-_-Product

Run your 2nd monitor from that card. This way you can have the faster 470 and still run 2 monitors with good idle temps. Also in case you need to upgrade the 470, you can sell it and still have the 210 for basic 2D work, while you search for a deal for that new gen card when the time comes. I know when I upgrade I always prefer to first sell my older card so I know what my out of pocket costs are going to be. During the time when I don't have my older card, I just use a cheap PCIe card to hold me over.

Alternatively, you can just buy the 460 for $210, and save $40-60 towards your next upgrade in 12 months. Say you sell the 460 for $100 in 12 months + add $60 you saved NOW from the 470 + add another $40 for $200 total and you'll probably get a card way faster than the 470 and it will be cooler too. Since you plan to play games, you won't be able to keep the card for 5 years as you did with your current card. That's why I recommend that you start thinking about what is sufficient for you today + savings you can use towards your next upgrade. That's actually the cheapest way to own new videocards every 12 months, as opposed to buying 1 high end $400-500 card and keeping it for 5 years.
 
Last edited:

Aznattic

Junior Member
Aug 28, 2010
9
0
0
I can't use another graphics card in addition. I need the other pci-e slot for a sas controller soon.

Hmm, never thought of it that way. I guess i should pick up the MSI Cyclone after reading how well it overclocks and that it can also surpass the GTX 470 when overclocked high.

I just saw the thread for the ATI 6870 though :(. Wish i didn't because i would imagine the 6850 would be a current powerhouse match to the 5870 at least. Is there a certain release date for these cards? If it is a month or two then i really wouldn't mind waiting (even if i do lose function performance in in photoshop and such)
 

Dark Shroud

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2010
1,576
1
0
I can't use another graphics card in addition. I need the other pci-e slot for a sas controller soon.

Hmm, never thought of it that way. I guess i should pick up the MSI Cyclone after reading how well it overclocks and that it can also surpass the GTX 470 when overclocked high.

I just saw the thread for the ATI 6870 though :(. Wish i didn't because i would imagine the 6850 would be a current powerhouse match to the 5870 at least. Is there a certain release date for these cards? If it is a month or two then i really wouldn't mind waiting (even if i do lose function performance in in photoshop and such)

The ATI 6000 series launch can be as late as November. If you can use that Tigerdirect code posted earlier for the MSI it's a decent deal. It's really up to you if you can wait.
 

Aznattic

Junior Member
Aug 28, 2010
9
0
0
I do want to wait, but i am worried there will be a shortage of cards like last year and they spike up the prices again. :(
 

Dark Shroud

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2010
1,576
1
0
Yeah you'll have to buy when they first come out, the 6770 shouldn't be bad. Also because odds are prices will only go up as well unless Nvidia is able to pull a Hail Mary.
 

Aznattic

Junior Member
Aug 28, 2010
9
0
0
Is it known what will actually release when the 6000 line up comes out this year? I would assume the higher end models such as 6870 and 6850 will be, but the 6770 as well?
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
If you plan to run dual monitors, then ATI is the way to go. 470 will for sure idle in the 60s or 70s with dual monitors. This also means higher fan speed and additional noise in idle. Since you are going to be using the system for photoshop and not just gaming, I'd pick the quieter 460.

Tiger Direct has MSI N460GTX Cyclone GeForce GTX 460 1GB GDDR5 Video Card for $210 and free shipping after applying coupon code FYL5221.

Alternatively, if you do want the 470, for your purposes, I'd suggest one with an aftermarket cooler already: Palit 470 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-073-_-Product

If all you did was gaming and single monitor, then 470 would have been better. I would probably choose the MSI 460 and overclock it.

Huh. My 470 idles at 48c using dual monitors.
 

Petey!

Senior member
May 28, 2010
250
0
0
Just to address the whole "dual monitor" thing. Cards will downclock properly if both monitors are the same Res/Refresh rate. If your running 2 different monitors (think a 24" main and a 20" side) then they will idle in 3D mode (higher temps). Pretty sure this affects all cards, but could be wrong. When the 4xx series were brought out, they idled in 3D even if both monitors were the same, they have since fixed that.
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
9,427
16
81
Yes, the 470 is being phased out. When stocks are gone Nvidia will release a full-shader GF104 as the GTX475 -- a 460 on steroids.

Given your application use I'd pick up the 475 as soon as it appears.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
has nvidia actually confirmed gtx 475 release or is it still just rumors? they might still be having enough yield issues that they can't make enough 475's to make it worthwhile yet, if ever.

gtx 460 768 is $145 shipped at chief value now, dont' know if you can go with that card but if so that's a smokin' deal. wreckage just posted the link in hot deals. see, he is good for something after all!
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Just to address the whole "dual monitor" thing. Cards will downclock properly if both monitors are the same Res/Refresh rate. If your running 2 different monitors (think a 24" main and a 20" side) then they will idle in 3D mode (higher temps). Pretty sure this affects all cards, but could be wrong. When the 4xx series were brought out, they idled in 3D even if both monitors were the same, they have since fixed that.

My monitors are 23" 1920x1200 and 20" 1600x1200 and my GTX 470 is currently idling at 48c GPU usage 0%.
 

coffeejunkee

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2010
1,153
0
0
Support for extras in photoshop is a plus. I plan on using Premeire as well once i get past the learning curve. I don't think ATI's 5800 series support these features, even if it is only for zooming in and for help loading multiple pictures it still is a huge pro for me.

Ati cards support the gpu-accelerated features in Photoshop just as well as Nvidia cards. You don't even need a very powerfull card, basically any old vidcard will do. Premiere is a different story, that definately benefits from cuda.

Just saying this because there seems to be a lot of confusion about this. Adobe says: "CS5 now has cuda-support" and apparently everyone thinks everything in CS5 is suddenly cuda-accelerated, while in reality only 1 app in the whole suite natively uses cuda for some of the things it does.

I'd have to check this but you might also need to use a hacked driver to use cuda in Premiere since originally the cuda-features were limited to GTX285 (Apple card I guess).

Capt Caveman: but at what frequencies does it idle?
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Given your application use I'd pick up the 475 as soon as it appears.

We have been hearing about the 475 for 2 months now. It's still nowhere to be found, not even a working prototype, no leaked specs of any kind, nothing. We all wish for GTX475 to replace the 470, but it's just as far from reality as it has been 2 months ago. If it is in the pipeline, it's probably a while away. I am sure NV would have no problems at all to sell 470 alongside the 475 just like it sold 465s along 460s. The reason 475 has not been released is probably because NV can't get the part with sufficient yeilds, not because they have millions of 470s in stock. Plus, all those non-working GTX480s have to be sold as 470s. Therefore, it is only logical to assume that when 475 is to appear, there will have to be a 485 card as well. Otherwise, what do you do with non-working GTX480 cores if you discontinue the 470?

BTW, latest NV drivers revealed some more NV products, and again no sign at all of GTX475 or 485: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/...raphics_Cards_Revealed_by_Driver_Release.html
 
Last edited: